[Tennes]

Emurlahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

however, when we were chatting amiably yesterday, Tennes said that only Yan can be recruited. and today he's saying that only the Emperors are immune.

Quote this. I never said that.

[Emurlahn]

Kessobahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:15 PM, said:

Karosis, on 19 October 2011 - 06:13 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

Tennes, on 19 October 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 19 October 2011 - 05:51 PM, said:

So I take it that Karosis is going to follow Emur no matter what?


Telas, what are you planning?

You know, I didn;t think about giving him more time to recruit, can't think of everything I guess

Or you could vote Emur and we can see what happens tonight. That is like casting the dice all over again.

I am down for either:

-Lynching Emur, and seeing what happens tonight. I could die, and this would set the usurper free, or Korlat could kill the yan power..etc any number of things.

-lynching the usurper and seeing what night brings.


But ppl seem dead set on following the emur/Karosis conglomerate and voting off the usurper. Not sure on the logic there.. but meh. I have no control over that option.

Of course you want people to vote of non-Yan people. That way tomorrow you have a 3 v 2 v 1 v 1 (no Xia since I would be killed the second Emur is gone) faction lead. With your ability to heal your people at all times (MOAR CATAPULTS), once you are able to verify your people cannot be voted off, you win.

Why do you think anyone non Yan would vote for that? Everyone else in the game should be happy to vote off either the Usurper or any Yan member. A Yan member is the correct choice for everyone not Yan.

yip...trying to make sense to tennes is like beating an old donkey.

In fact, the 1 person barbarian team should be pushing for a Tennes lynch and then hoping he gets recruited, assuming they don't have some immunity to being recruited.

yeah, I said that too.
but no one is listening.

[Karosis]

Emurlahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:14 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

You know, I'm wondering if the Usurpers victory conditions allow him to win with Yan if his emperor is still alive?

bargy seemed to imply that possibilty.
which de facto gives yan 4 votes.

yea this is another thing to consider...what if the usurpers emperor never dies?
he doesnt get activated.

so potentially yan could be sitting with 4 vote block.....the sneaky fucker.

and they are trying to convince me to go after xia like im some kind of fucking chump that just started playing this game yesterday.

[Karosis]

Emurlahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:15 PM, said:

Karosis, on 19 October 2011 - 06:13 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

Tennes, on 19 October 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 19 October 2011 - 05:51 PM, said:

So I take it that Karosis is going to follow Emur no matter what?


Telas, what are you planning?

You know, I didn;t think about giving him more time to recruit, can't think of everything I guess

Or you could vote Emur and we can see what happens tonight. That is like casting the dice all over again.

I am down for either:

-Lynching Emur, and seeing what happens tonight. I could die, and this would set the usurper free, or Korlat could kill the yan power..etc any number of things.

-lynching the usurper and seeing what night brings.


But ppl seem dead set on following the emur/Karosis conglomerate and voting off the usurper. Not sure on the logic there.. but meh. I have no control over that option.

Of course you want people to vote of non-Yan people. That way tomorrow you have a 3 v 2 v 1 v 1 (no Xia since I would be killed the second Emur is gone) faction lead. With your ability to heal your people at all times (MOAR CATAPULTS), once you are able to verify your people cannot be voted off, you win.

Why do you think anyone non Yan would vote for that? Everyone else in the game should be happy to vote off either the Usurper or any Yan member. A Yan member is the correct choice for everyone not Yan.

yip...trying to make sense to tennes is like beating an old donkey.

In fact, the 1 person barbarian team should be pushing for a Tennes lynch and then hoping he gets recruited, assuming they don't have some immunity to being recruited.

yeah, I said that too.
but no one is listening.

we cant get recruited

[Barghast]

Emurlahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:15 PM, said:

Karosis, on 19 October 2011 - 06:09 PM, said:

He has 3 possible recruits as far as i can tell..


the two PM's and the hidden role.


if he did recruit them all and gets activated he would win outright with a majority of 4 people

but.... why would Kesso become his recruit if i'm still alive?
this proposed mechanic makes no sense to me!

The proposed mechanic has a story element to it.

Sima Yi is loyal to one person and one person alone, but is building his powerbase. When that one person dies (Tennes, we assume), THEN he grasps power for himself and declares himself emperor. Those who support him REGARDLESS OF THEIR FACTION then become the Jin as his followers.

I really don't see how you can't understand that this is a very logical development and a clearcut and simple mechanic, much simpler than it being dependant on the leader dying before the followers are released, piecemeal. Your interpretation would mean that the Sima Yi faction would never ever get a chance at majority and thus, victory.

[Emurlahn]

Tennes, on 19 October 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

however, when we were chatting amiably yesterday, Tennes said that only Yan can be recruited. and today he's saying that only the Emperors are immune.

Quote this. I never said that.

k, my apaologies. you did not say that. you said that sima can only ascend if you die.
but here's a curveball: what if only one of your underlings is recruited? then we'll have jin and yan still in play.

[Tennes]

Karosis, on 19 October 2011 - 06:13 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

Tennes, on 19 October 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 19 October 2011 - 05:51 PM, said:

So I take it that Karosis is going to follow Emur no matter what?


Telas, what are you planning?

You know, I didn;t think about giving him more time to recruit, can't think of everything I guess

Or you could vote Emur and we can see what happens tonight. That is like casting the dice all over again.

I am down for either:

-Lynching Emur, and seeing what happens tonight. I could die, and this would set the usurper free, or Korlat could kill the yan power..etc any number of things.

-lynching the usurper and seeing what night brings.


But ppl seem dead set on following the emur/Karosis conglomerate and voting off the usurper. Not sure on the logic there.. but meh. I have no control over that option.

Of course you want people to vote of non-Yan people. That way tomorrow you have a 3 v 2 v 1 v 1 (no Xia since I would be killed the second Emur is gone) faction lead. With your ability to heal your people at all times (MOAR CATAPULTS), once you are able to verify your people cannot be voted off, you win.

Why do you think anyone non Yan would vote for that? Everyone else in the game should be happy to vote off either the Usurper or any Yan member. A Yan member is the correct choice for everyone not Yan.

yip...trying to make sense to tennes is like beating an old donkey.

So i am supposed to roll over and let you vote off my members? The fuck? I want what you are smoking.


You really think that once Simi Yi was activated on day 2 that he was playing for anyone other than himself? Why would he bother recruiting anyone. The point of the role is to win by recruitment. You don't get 2 winning conditions. If you do... thats stupid.

[Barghast]

Karosis, on 19 October 2011 - 06:18 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:15 PM, said:

Karosis, on 19 October 2011 - 06:13 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

Tennes, on 19 October 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 19 October 2011 - 05:51 PM, said:

So I take it that Karosis is going to follow Emur no matter what?


Telas, what are you planning?

You know, I didn;t think about giving him more time to recruit, can't think of everything I guess

Or you could vote Emur and we can see what happens tonight. That is like casting the dice all over again.

I am down for either:

-Lynching Emur, and seeing what happens tonight. I could die, and this would set the usurper free, or Korlat could kill the yan power..etc any number of things.

-lynching the usurper and seeing what night brings.


But ppl seem dead set on following the emur/Karosis conglomerate and voting off the usurper. Not sure on the logic there.. but meh. I have no control over that option.

Of course you want people to vote of non-Yan people. That way tomorrow you have a 3 v 2 v 1 v 1 (no Xia since I would be killed the second Emur is gone) faction lead. With your ability to heal your people at all times (MOAR CATAPULTS), once you are able to verify your people cannot be voted off, you win.

Why do you think anyone non Yan would vote for that? Everyone else in the game should be happy to vote off either the Usurper or any Yan member. A Yan member is the correct choice for everyone not Yan.

yip...trying to make sense to tennes is like beating an old donkey.

In fact, the 1 person barbarian team should be pushing for a Tennes lynch and then hoping he gets recruited, assuming they don't have some immunity to being recruited.

yeah, I said that too.
but no one is listening.

we cant get recruited

Is that you, or you and your followers? As a faction head, I'd assume you are immune. Not sure at all about your henchmen. If it is you and Korlat both, more power to you. If it isn't, then you'd better think twice before releasing the Jin - they might have the last killer left in the game on their side. Which isn't perhaps a threat to Kesso and Emur. But it is to you and the other warlord.

[Emurlahn]

Barghast, on 19 October 2011 - 06:19 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:15 PM, said:

Karosis, on 19 October 2011 - 06:09 PM, said:

He has 3 possible recruits as far as i can tell..


the two PM's and the hidden role.


if he did recruit them all and gets activated he would win outright with a majority of 4 people

but.... why would Kesso become his recruit if i'm still alive?
this proposed mechanic makes no sense to me!

The proposed mechanic has a story element to it.

Sima Yi is loyal to one person and one person alone, but is building his powerbase. When that one person dies (Tennes, we assume), THEN he grasps power for himself and declares himself emperor. Those who support him REGARDLESS OF THEIR FACTION then become the Jin as his followers.

I really don't see how you can't understand that this is a very logical development and a clearcut and simple mechanic, much simpler than it being dependant on the leader dying before the followers are released, piecemeal. Your interpretation would mean that the Sima Yi faction would never ever get a chance at majority and thus, victory.

that only makes sense if Sima Yi can grab power simultaneously in multiple kingdoms. which does NOT make sense from story perspective. since Sima Yi took over one kingdom (Wei) after it subsumed Shu. and he then went on to conquer Wu, because Wei was infinitely bigger by then. He took over a stable kingdom, though. in game terms, if not all Yan are recruited, we could end up with a yan, a Jin,a nd a xia all around at the same time.

[Barghast]

Emurlahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:21 PM, said:

Tennes, on 19 October 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

however, when we were chatting amiably yesterday, Tennes said that only Yan can be recruited. and today he's saying that only the Emperors are immune.

Quote this. I never said that.

k, my apaologies. you did not say that. you said that sima can only ascend if you die.
but here's a curveball: what if only one of your underlings is recruited? then we'll have jin and yan still in play.

Actually mate, what you say Tennes said is what you have been saying all game long. As for the curve ball: of course that's true. Sima Yi doesn't take over a faction. He starts a new one. Honestly, if you didn't have Karosis riding your coat tails no matter what happens, anyone else would have abondoned your cause simply because of the lack of comprehension of the usurper mechanic you've shown so far, and the danger that this encompasses.

[Kessobahn]

So here are the current scenarios as I see them:

3 Yan
2 Xia
2 Barb
1 Barb
1 Usurper

The Usurper may be playing for Yan at the moment, giving them a huge voting bloc.

Even if not, reducing the Yan numbers can only help the barbarians, especially if we find their 'special role'. PM's cannot kill. Emps Cannot kill. That would mean it would be, after the lynch

2 Yan
2 Xia
2 Barb
1 Barb
1 Usurper

With no kingdom having any kind of offensive night action. At this point, it is anyones game, especially since I have no way of predicting night results.



I'm really not sure why we would be lynching anyone except the Yan special role or Barghast, at this point. But w/e.

[Emurlahn]

it's both a danger and an opportunity.

and I have the least to lose.

[Karosis]

Tennes, on 19 October 2011 - 06:22 PM, said:

Karosis, on 19 October 2011 - 06:13 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

Tennes, on 19 October 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 19 October 2011 - 05:51 PM, said:

So I take it that Karosis is going to follow Emur no matter what?


Telas, what are you planning?

You know, I didn;t think about giving him more time to recruit, can't think of everything I guess

Or you could vote Emur and we can see what happens tonight. That is like casting the dice all over again.

I am down for either:

-Lynching Emur, and seeing what happens tonight. I could die, and this would set the usurper free, or Korlat could kill the yan power..etc any number of things.

-lynching the usurper and seeing what night brings.


But ppl seem dead set on following the emur/Karosis conglomerate and voting off the usurper. Not sure on the logic there.. but meh. I have no control over that option.

Of course you want people to vote of non-Yan people. That way tomorrow you have a 3 v 2 v 1 v 1 (no Xia since I would be killed the second Emur is gone) faction lead. With your ability to heal your people at all times (MOAR CATAPULTS), once you are able to verify your people cannot be voted off, you win.

Why do you think anyone non Yan would vote for that? Everyone else in the game should be happy to vote off either the Usurper or any Yan member. A Yan member is the correct choice for everyone not Yan.

yip...trying to make sense to tennes is like beating an old donkey.

So i am supposed to roll over and let you vote off my members? The fuck? I want what you are smoking.


You really think that once Simi Yi was activated on day 2 that he was playing for anyone other than himself? Why would he bother recruiting anyone. The point of the role is to win by recruitment. You don't get 2 winning conditions. If you do... thats stupid.

you just want him around so you can scare us away from voting you off....

simple...clean... the truth.

[Barghast]

Emurlahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:24 PM, said:

Barghast, on 19 October 2011 - 06:19 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:15 PM, said:

Karosis, on 19 October 2011 - 06:09 PM, said:

He has 3 possible recruits as far as i can tell..


the two PM's and the hidden role.


if he did recruit them all and gets activated he would win outright with a majority of 4 people

but.... why would Kesso become his recruit if i'm still alive?
this proposed mechanic makes no sense to me!

The proposed mechanic has a story element to it.

Sima Yi is loyal to one person and one person alone, but is building his powerbase. When that one person dies (Tennes, we assume), THEN he grasps power for himself and declares himself emperor. Those who support him REGARDLESS OF THEIR FACTION then become the Jin as his followers.

I really don't see how you can't understand that this is a very logical development and a clearcut and simple mechanic, much simpler than it being dependant on the leader dying before the followers are released, piecemeal. Your interpretation would mean that the Sima Yi faction would never ever get a chance at majority and thus, victory.

that only makes sense if Sima Yi can grab power simultaneously in multiple kingdoms. which does NOT make sense from story perspective. since Sima Yi took over one kingdom (Wei) after it subsumed Shu. and he then went on to conquer Wu, because Wei was infinitely bigger by then. He took over a stable kingdom, though. in game terms, if not all Yan are recruited, we could end up with a yan, a Jin,a nd a xia all around at the same time.

Listen, you can hide behind story all you like, but there are mechanics to consider, too.

Consider this: if he would take over the Yan alone, D'rek would have made him sub-Emperor of the Yan and perhaps call them Jin to distinguish between Yan losers (those already dead + the Yan emperor) and Jin (Yan survivors). Simple as that. Instead, she made him a recruiter. A cult leader.
What does that tell you? It tells you everyone is fair game except those who have immunity in their Role PM. Simple as fucking that.

Honestly, you're being foolish here in considering a very weird interpretation of basic mechanics and it isn't WCS, which is mafia faux pas number 1 when it comes to the end-game.

[Tennes]

Emurlahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:24 PM, said:

Barghast, on 19 October 2011 - 06:19 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:15 PM, said:

Karosis, on 19 October 2011 - 06:09 PM, said:

He has 3 possible recruits as far as i can tell..


the two PM's and the hidden role.


if he did recruit them all and gets activated he would win outright with a majority of 4 people

but.... why would Kesso become his recruit if i'm still alive?
this proposed mechanic makes no sense to me!

The proposed mechanic has a story element to it.

Sima Yi is loyal to one person and one person alone, but is building his powerbase. When that one person dies (Tennes, we assume), THEN he grasps power for himself and declares himself emperor. Those who support him REGARDLESS OF THEIR FACTION then become the Jin as his followers.

I really don't see how you can't understand that this is a very logical development and a clearcut and simple mechanic, much simpler than it being dependant on the leader dying before the followers are released, piecemeal. Your interpretation would mean that the Sima Yi faction would never ever get a chance at majority and thus, victory.

that only makes sense if Sima Yi can grab power simultaneously in multiple kingdoms. which does NOT make sense from story perspective. since Sima Yi took over one kingdom (Wei) after it subsumed Shu. and he then went on to conquer Wu, because Wei was infinitely bigger by then. He took over a stable kingdom, though. in game terms, if not all Yan are recruited, we could end up with a yan, a Jin,a nd a xia all around at the same time.

Of course he can. You are looking at it from a story perspective rather than a Mafia mechanic perspective. Anyone not a leader is able to be recruited. Thats the mafia standard. Mafia dictates the story... not the other way around. Hence Drek;s disclaimer that this isn't how the actual story went down, but because of how previous games played out, this is where we are at. It's perfectly plausible, i'd argue likely, that Sima can recruit any non leader from any faction and when I die he assumes power. This would easily be fit into the story by saying something along the lines of him secretly spreading influence among the courts of the 3 kingdoms and suddenly making a power grab.

You are excluding possibilities based on story..when actually the mafia game is what creates the story.

[Emurlahn]

Kessobahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:28 PM, said:

So here are the current scenarios as I see them:

3 Yan
2 Xia
2 Barb
1 Barb
1 Usurper

The Usurper may be playing for Yan at the moment, giving them a huge voting bloc.

Even if not, reducing the Yan numbers can only help the barbarians, especially if we find their 'special role'. PM's cannot kill. Emps Cannot kill. That would mean it would be, after the lynch

2 Yan
2 Xia
2 Barb
1 Barb
1 Usurper

With no kingdom having any kind of offensive night action. At this point, it is anyones game, especially since I have no way of predicting night results.



I'm really not sure why we would be lynching anyone except the Yan special role or Barghast, at this point. But w/e.

PMs can't kill. ergo, a barg lynch is ineffective.

[Emurlahn]

@ Tennes+ Barg: then vote him off already and rid yourself of the issue.



like I said, I have the least to lose, so i'm likely to explore every scenario, no matter how far-fetched and risky.

[Kessobahn]

Emurlahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:29 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:28 PM, said:

So here are the current scenarios as I see them:

3 Yan
2 Xia
2 Barb
1 Barb
1 Usurper

The Usurper may be playing for Yan at the moment, giving them a huge voting bloc.

Even if not, reducing the Yan numbers can only help the barbarians, especially if we find their 'special role'. PM's cannot kill. Emps Cannot kill. That would mean it would be, after the lynch

2 Yan
2 Xia
2 Barb
1 Barb
1 Usurper

With no kingdom having any kind of offensive night action. At this point, it is anyones game, especially since I have no way of predicting night results.



I'm really not sure why we would be lynching anyone except the Yan special role or Barghast, at this point. But w/e.

PMs can't kill. ergo, a barg lynch is ineffective.

Ah but it lowers the Yan voting bloc, and I don't know between Okaros and Telas who the Yan special role is and who the usurper is. I'm leaning towards Telas being the Usurper, but I don't know for sure.

[Karosis]

Barghast, on 19 October 2011 - 06:29 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:24 PM, said:

Barghast, on 19 October 2011 - 06:19 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:15 PM, said:

Karosis, on 19 October 2011 - 06:09 PM, said:

He has 3 possible recruits as far as i can tell..


the two PM's and the hidden role.


if he did recruit them all and gets activated he would win outright with a majority of 4 people

but.... why would Kesso become his recruit if i'm still alive?
this proposed mechanic makes no sense to me!

The proposed mechanic has a story element to it.

Sima Yi is loyal to one person and one person alone, but is building his powerbase. When that one person dies (Tennes, we assume), THEN he grasps power for himself and declares himself emperor. Those who support him REGARDLESS OF THEIR FACTION then become the Jin as his followers.

I really don't see how you can't understand that this is a very logical development and a clearcut and simple mechanic, much simpler than it being dependant on the leader dying before the followers are released, piecemeal. Your interpretation would mean that the Sima Yi faction would never ever get a chance at majority and thus, victory.

that only makes sense if Sima Yi can grab power simultaneously in multiple kingdoms. which does NOT make sense from story perspective. since Sima Yi took over one kingdom (Wei) after it subsumed Shu. and he then went on to conquer Wu, because Wei was infinitely bigger by then. He took over a stable kingdom, though. in game terms, if not all Yan are recruited, we could end up with a yan, a Jin,a nd a xia all around at the same time.

Listen, you can hide behind story all you like, but there are mechanics to consider, too.

Consider this: if he would take over the Yan alone, D'rek would have made him sub-Emperor of the Yan and perhaps call them Jin to distinguish between Yan losers (those already dead + the Yan emperor) and Jin (Yan survivors). Simple as that. Instead, she made him a recruiter. A cult leader.
What does that tell you? It tells you everyone is fair game except those who have immunity in their Role PM. Simple as fucking that.

Honestly, you're being foolish here in considering a very weird interpretation of basic mechanics and it isn't WCS, which is mafia faux pas number 1 when it comes to the end-game.

ok...so then lets lynch the usurper then!!!

[Tennes]

Kessobahn, on 19 October 2011 - 06:28 PM, said:

The Usurper may be playing for Yan at the moment, giving them a huge voting bloc.

Stop throwing this around like it's an even remote possibility. The moment he was mentioned as starting to recruit he had his own condition and was playing for himself. He doesn't get it both ways.

Now who's the one who is fear mongering.