[Ampelas]

Anthras, on 30 June 2011 - 09:07 PM, said:

Dropping in briefly at lunch.

Ampelas, on 30 June 2011 - 08:49 PM, said:

I'm tempted to vote Korbas in the hopes that it will free up PS to start giving us the informaton instead of relying on pinky for it.

Why would anyone believe this would happen?

I don't believe that. The thought was just wishfull thinking on my part.

[Barghast]

Korabas, on 28 June 2011 - 05:11 PM, said:

Omtose, on 28 June 2011 - 09:25 AM, said:

Maybe the BC can choose which side they want to win? maybe they have multiple winning conditions?

without Reading the books, and only having your convoluted info to work with, im assuming there's 4 factions, the dominator which i dont think will be that powerful till near the end of the game, the lady, who is cult, the BC which multiple winning conditions, and the rebels who are mostly RI

remove vote

i think that joke vote is muddying things. Not sure hp warrants lynching to be fair. Hard to get any info on them from the very few posts they have. dont agree with the omtose vote reasons either, though they did make it clear they werent in the black company by trying to guess their winning conditions. i personally think there are three factions, if you are definitely not in one of them its only fifty fifty your in the dominators and on day 1 thats odds enough for me.

vote omtose

Interesting that we currently have a 4 faction paradigm according to Korbas (Lady, Soulcatcher, Dominator, Rebel) which lines up pretty well with Omtose's theory above. However, Omtose says "cult" maybe in lieu of "Dominator" and BC in lieu of "Soulcatcher."

Omtose, on 28 June 2011 - 05:18 PM, said:

if u go on the assumption theres only 3 factions and im not in the BC, that means its a choice of 2 options, not a 50/50 chance im in the dominator faction unless both of those factions have equal numbers of players, which i doubt

i mention a link between the two korbies and both of them vote for me? hmmm

Just want to run this quote above too against what Korbas says...

Ruse, on 28 June 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

Also...without a CF of any kind how can lynching benefit us? We don't know if we even hit cult or not, and every time we miss the swing is two members down for the faction that was hit (assuming successful recruitment). If that faction was also the target of recruitment, it's a three point swing. With so many NKs...those are some dangerous numbers.

Back to Ruse, potential high level Rebel, saying things that do seem to gel with Korbas' CF. So far the Rebels are the bulk of kills followed closely by Soulcatchers.

Omtose, on 28 June 2011 - 07:56 PM, said:

Ruse, on 28 June 2011 - 07:26 PM, said:

Wow, three NKs? And no CF from any of them...

It almost reads like the Black Company are NPCs? Is that possible?

i would of agreed with you, but i think korabas pretty much outted himself as BC before

You said in your next post that u dont think we should lynch? at all? admittedly we dont know if we hit gold or not, but we cant just do nothing

Ok this is the "Struck Gold" quote. So far, we have only one person from the BC ("One-Eye") and even then, no one is part of the BC faction, which if there are sub-factions, would indeed be a faction like the Soulcatchers. However, if BC are only a vehicle by which this game is carried, we would not expect anyone to have a BC role (I think that PS is our Croaker, not Korbas). I think that One-Eye is one of our first misleading CF's (even with the "authentication" of a misspelling of faction, "fraction," in the quoted CF). I question whether there are any BC characters. I think we would see at least a couple more in the kills if they were present among our players. And as someone pointed out very early on, they are not even mentioned in the OP.


Third, and last, quote fest in a sec.

[Ampelas]

The only thing that really stood out was Omtose and Korbas feud but that was days ago. This kill could be any number of things. 1 Korbas has a kill power but waited a few days to avoid suspicion on himself to get revenge. 2 this was a calculated kill to throw suspicions onto Korbas. 3 This was a caculated kill that didn't hit who the killer thought that he was hitting or 4 this was a completely random kill ment to stir things up.

I can see any but the first one as actually being the true meaning of the kill. Korbas just doesn't seem the vengeful type. He's very willing to throw people under the bus but he doesn't seem carry a grudge.

[Ampelas]

Work calls. I'll be around to check in on developments from time to time.

[Liosan]

Ampelas, on 30 June 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

I can see any but the first one as actually being the true meaning of the kill. Korbas just doesn't seem the vengeful type. He's very willing to throw people under the bus but he doesn't seem carry a grudge.

What ? HE doesn't seem to carry a grudge? Doesn't seem the vengeful type? Seriously, you couldn't symp anyone any harder than this, I think that Korbas is a faction leader and needs to go, consequently I think the longer he survives, the more mis-information we get, the more h gets his numbers up. Based on this, I am going to

Vote Korbas

[Barghast]

Korbas, on 29 June 2011 - 06:15 AM, said:

Hi i'm back. I was looking to give these last night but PS still hasn't got back to me. I hope it is okay to divulge this information.

HP was a rebel and Sorrit was also a Rebel.

Korabas was One Eye of the Soulcatchers

Eloth was Feather of the Dominator.

Ruse, on 29 June 2011 - 04:34 PM, said:

Korbas, on 29 June 2011 - 06:15 AM, said:

Hi i'm back. I was looking to give these last night but PS still hasn't got back to me. I hope it is okay to divulge this information.

HP was a rebel and Sorrit was also a Rebel.

Korabas was One Eye of the Soulcatchers

Eloth was Feather of the Dominator.

One Eye of the Soulcatchers? That sounds very, very off to me. I agree with Mockra that the book information seems centered on the first novel, and Soulcatcher is very much a Taken and aligned with the Lady for the majority of the book (from the reader's perspective). It makes no sense to me why the Taken would be referred to as anything else, and Soulcatcher having his own faction would be bizarre (unless this is somehow the subfaction within the Taken that is plotting against the Lady/BC...).

Mockra's also correct about the details of Feather and the Circle and the Dominator. However, the Korabas business does not line up at all. One Eye is a wizard in the Black Company...he has a lot of interaction with Soulcatcher, but nothing to suggest he would be part of his "faction." This is even more complicated by One Eye's revelation about his brother's killer later on (avoiding spoilers for those who haven't read).

I'll be around later but it's a tough day for me.

Very interesting quote from Ruse about the Soulcatcher faction (another potentially misleading CF designation created by Korbas) from one with a leader position in the Rebels, according to Korbas. However, I am now really starting to wonder if Ruse really knew that much. He didn't really manage to save two of his RI team mates. I also want to know more about how Mockra (who is coincidentally is also dead now and given, of all things, an RI role under the lady. strikes me as odd when the Lady seems surrounded by roled characters whereas the Rebels strike me more as an RI pool) was correct about story details and why Ruse thought the Soulcatcher label for Korabas "didn't line up".

Tellan, on 29 June 2011 - 08:20 PM, said:

Right. I see a case has been built on me based on my lack of participation. There's not much I can say in defence of that. I didn't have much to contribute during day 1 I felt and was waiting for what would happen. Then my grandfather broke his leg and as all other family members are out in the middle of godforsaken nowhere I had to take care of everything. The ambulance, my grandmother, the hospital, driving insurance and.. well you get the picture.

Korbas, on 29 June 2011 - 06:15 AM, said:

Hi i'm back. I was looking to give these last night but PS still hasn't got back to me. I hope it is okay to divulge this information.

HP was a rebel and Sorrit was also a Rebel.

Korabas was One Eye of the Soulcatchers

Eloth was Feather of the Dominator.

Now, a CF role like this seems wrong on a structural level, but this is a strange game so let's roll with it for the arguments sake. One Eye of the Soulcatchers? Soulcatcher is a Taken. Why would there be a Soulcatcher faction and why would the black company be a part of it? Wouldn't that be the Lady's faction if anything?

Mind you, it's been years since I read the books so I might've missed some obvious connection there but it seems off.


However, if Korbas is not lying there's some interesting connections to be found. First there's HP's attack on Eloth, claiming that Eloth was a witch early on day 1. That's a pretty good guess and a gutsy claim to make so early based on a single line in the very first post of the thread.

Also, I noted down a situation earlier in the thread (I'll hunt down the post nr in a second) where it seemed to me that Eloth was attempting to signal Korbas. That's especially interesting if Eloth is part of the Dominator faction.

Again more potential interesting insight from a supposed leader of a faction, Soulcatcher. Also interesting that Tellan claims Soulcatcher is a Taken esp. if Soulcatcher is more accurately a Soulcatcher factionee.


Ok that's all folks for the moment.

[Korbas]

guys, i'll be back on properly in the morning to contribute as much as i can

Omtose was Roldom and Harden, or the Rebel

I was checking on my phone and saw there was a day action taken. This is the cf i got, it is interesting. guys i'm not misleading you, and i haven't given you a wrong cf yet

i'll be on in the morning

no time now

[Barghast]

Harden
Harden is a member of the Circle of Eighteen, a wizard and a general. He is brother-in-law to fellow Circle member Raker; they reportedly can't stand each other. He has a very pink face, bearded, surrounded by a tangle of orange hair; one eye is half-closed by a livid scar.

Although initially not the leader of the Circle, Harden proves a remarkably potent foe. His magic is able to halt three Taken in their tracks at the same time, though he cannot kill them. He is killed because he failed to realize

Spoiler

that his horse was actually a fourth Taken (Shapeshifter)

. Nonetheless, in a dying act of frustration, he hurls his sword and kills The Hanged Man.




And this is the third person from the Circle list given by Korbas CFs, including Feather (Dominator faction) and Raker (Rebel faction).

edit: massive reveal spoiler for the books on a secret identity. just covering it up for those who have not read the series and will feel violated.

This post has been edited by Barghast: 30 June 2011 - 10:16 PM

[Ampelas]

Liosan, on 30 June 2011 - 09:36 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 30 June 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

I can see any but the first one as actually being the true meaning of the kill. Korbas just doesn't seem the vengeful type. He's very willing to throw people under the bus but he doesn't seem carry a grudge.

What ? HE doesn't seem to carry a grudge? Doesn't seem the vengeful type? Seriously, you couldn't symp anyone any harder than this, I think that Korbas is a faction leader and needs to go, consequently I think the longer he survives, the more mis-information we get, the more h gets his numbers up. Based on this, I am going to

Vote Korbas

I'm just as annoyed as you that we are at Korbas mercy when it comes to getting information more than the scenes when someone dies and if I could get somesort of guaranty that the CF would come up normal upon his death I'm all for stringing is pink ass up the nearest tree. But yes I stand by the comment that he doesn't hold grudges. Just look at his voting history. He is as free as the wind as to who he chooses to attack. He also never voted for Omtose again after the almost whole day one spat they had and switched to attacking Anthras and Tellan. How is that holding a grudge?

[Ampelas]

Liosan, on 30 June 2011 - 09:36 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 30 June 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

I can see any but the first one as actually being the true meaning of the kill. Korbas just doesn't seem the vengeful type. He's very willing to throw people under the bus but he doesn't seem carry a grudge.

What ? HE doesn't seem to carry a grudge? Doesn't seem the vengeful type? Seriously, you couldn't symp anyone any harder than this, I think that Korbas is a faction leader and needs to go, consequently I think the longer he survives, the more mis-information we get, the more h gets his numbers up. Based on this, I am going to

Vote Korbas

You say he is a faction leader. What faction do you think he is leading? There only seems to be two faction leaders left based on Korbas reveal. But you don't believe Korbas now do you. How many do you think is still around?

[Korbas]

first thing first. I've got so much to say. Each player left has to make up their own mind. I could be on your team. Barg seems to love his quotes which is fine but he doesn't say who he thinks i am. I don't believe him to be a head guy as he is throwing himself out there. But and it is a big but, he hasn't looked elsewhere. I've posted the most. I'm not loyal to anyone because i don't know who to trust. Its easy to build a train on me. Lio jumped on with barg because he's scared of being voted. It would be too hard to make up 4 or more factions, add names to each one and remember everything. Why people think i'm lying is beyond me. Who do you think i am barg? If i'm a leader type role then why am i getting cf's! I don't want to vote you because you,re putting yourself out there and i like that. Yet why not focus on other players! Are you a recruit? I'd prefer to look elsewhere for major scum. I'l add more in the morning. By the way, when did you become leader?

[Liosan]

Korbas, on 30 June 2011 - 10:48 PM, said:

Lio jumped on with barg because he's scared of being voted.

I voted you because Ampelas can't seem to get his head out of your ass, and based on his previous posts, I think this is his first f®action game, and he does what most new players do to their leaders, tries to defend them when they aren't around to defend themselves.

[Liosan]

As to who you might be, I don't know because I haven't read the books, but this is a mafia game, and I can use my mad skillz to choose who to vote for.

[Osseric]

This game has me really questioning my ability to play faction games.

It would surprise me if Korbas is a leader - it just seems to implausible for the CF to have that power, and if a leader did receive the CF's, why in the world would he share them?
But I also think that last post by Korbas was laying it on too sickly sweet.

Quote

Why people think i'm lying is beyond me.

If you really, really are wondering why people think you are lying, in a game of Mafia, you need to set your computer on fire and then attempt to put it out with your own piss. Seriously? If anything, this makes me think you've been lying about the CFs more than I originally suspected.

As for the big posts of quotes by Amp and Barg - those seem to reflect exactly the problems I am having with this game. I went back and looked at every post by the players still alive, and was really unable to find any connections between people and each other, or with the deaths. It's just a disjointed notepad jotted with things that caught my eye, but don't pass beyond the level of idle speculation.

I have one thing I feel I can add to that, but it will have to wait for a moment since I have to rush out the door. Be back in a couple of hours.

[Ampelas]

Liosan, on 30 June 2011 - 11:16 PM, said:

Korbas, on 30 June 2011 - 10:48 PM, said:

Lio jumped on with barg because he's scared of being voted.

I voted you because Ampelas can't seem to get his head out of your ass, and based on his previous posts, I think this is his first f®action game, and he does what most new players do to their leaders, tries to defend them when they aren't around to defend themselves.

[Ampelas]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is completely clueless as to who is aligned with who. I have about half the players left pegged to one or two factions. The other half I have no clue. This after almost half the original players are already dead. This doesn't account for the fact that we may or may not have factions recruiting other players. So what I think I may know may be obsolete because the player's team I think they are on might not be true anymore. What can you do? Make decisions on the information at hand and hope you are not screwing you and your team over in the process.

Once again. Thanks Lizra

[Anthras]

OK, I'm just not on board with killing the CF. That's our only even tenuous source of information.

However ... I'm just wondering why the hell no one's calling Barghast out on how he didn't post for eight hours (@6:21 a.m., then UNTIL @1:29 p.m. by my clock), and then showed up three minutes after Omtose's death and instantly starts A wall-of-text analysis that he doesn't bother taking anywhere? Or how anxious he is to lynch the one person who can provide us with a measure of who's dying, without actually providing a case for that lynch? "He might be lying!" isn't a case, it's a blatantly obvious fact (it's Mafia, after all) masquerading as a keen insight.

Also, Omtose was the guy who, in Barghast's own analysis, was probably heavily invested in taking out the Dominator as a victory condition. Then, huh, he winds up dead in a Day Kill.

We're being pushed around, almost certainly by the Dominator faction. And if there's only one guy left (as, again Barghast concluded in his own earlier faction analysis) ... it's him:


Vote Barghast

[Anthras]

OK, here's his faction analysis from a while back, which was on Day 2:

Barghast, on 29 June 2011 - 06:43 PM, said:

That leads me to guess the following faction breakdown:

Soul-catcher's (Lady's) Faction [up to 8 players]
Leadership (1st = Lady, 2nd = Soulcatcher) [2 players]
Taken (The Limper) [1 player]
Misc (Bormaz) [1 player]
BC members [up to 4 players]

Dominator's Faction [1 player]
Leadership (Dominator) [1 player]

Rebellion Faction [2 players]
Leadership (White Rose) [1 player]
The Circle [2 players]
Unnamed Rebels [1 player]

These seem like very uneven teams, which can potentially work if there is 1) a lot of cross recruiting with the Taken, BC, Circle, and Rebels being fair game and/or 2) the smaller factions have a lot of tricks up their sleeves such as a superpower Dom and WR.

I think that the BC is actually smaller (death scene name dropping for story's sake) and the Circle peeps include more players. I also think it is possible the Lady or Soulcatcher don't exist are are just another name place holder.

Ok, this is a long post. I'll back off for a sec.

For some reason he takes it for granted there's only one person in the Dominator faction after the death of Eloth.

[Barghast]

Anthras, on 01 July 2011 - 01:38 AM, said:

OK, I'm just not on board with killing the CF. That's our only even tenuous source of information.

However ... I'm just wondering why the hell no one's calling Barghast out on how he didn't post for eight hours (@6:21 a.m., then UNTIL @1:29 p.m. by my clock), and then showed up three minutes after Omtose's death and instantly starts A wall-of-text analysis that he doesn't bother taking anywhere? Or how anxious he is to lynch the one person who can provide us with a measure of who's dying, without actually providing a case for that lynch? "He might be lying!" isn't a case, it's a blatantly obvious fact (it's Mafia, after all) masquerading as a keen insight.

Also, Omtose was the guy who, in Barghast's own analysis, was probably heavily invested in taking out the Dominator as a victory condition. Then, huh, he winds up dead in a Day Kill.

We're being pushed around, almost certainly by the Dominator faction. And if there's only one guy left (as, again Barghast concluded in his own earlier faction analysis) ... it's him:


Vote Barghast

Really? Am I allowed to sleep? For those who weren't there, I was the last person up last night (confirm with PS if you like) waiting for both the end of day scene and then the night scene, and THEN going to bed at 2:30 am. I think a 7-8 hour gap for a good night's rest is reasonable, do you not agree Anthrax? And if you use that timing, I would be waking up, reviewing the nights material when BAM, down goes Omtose.

I would, however weak your own insight is, like to congratulate you on asking questions of me considering how many ideas I'm throwing out with barely anyone remarking.

And as for content and not saying much, did you compare the red text between Amp and myself. I am very happy Amp even took the initiative, but I am definitely throwing out a lot of speculation, and not just to get my jollies in for The Contest V.

So, I must have to be explicit with my accusation of Korbas (after already claiming I think he is a leader). Since there are only two currently on the table, I think narrowing him down to either the Lady or the Dominator is sufficient. If not, my wildest guess, he is the Dominator (and don't be that offended Korbas. Consider it a compliment in a way seeing how you can pull off leading us around without credentials and also even elicit defense from people who say they don't trust you).

Is that enough?

[Barghast]

Anthras, on 01 July 2011 - 01:45 AM, said:

OK, here's his faction analysis from a while back, which was on Day 2:

Barghast, on 29 June 2011 - 06:43 PM, said:

That leads me to guess the following faction breakdown:

Soul-catcher's (Lady's) Faction [up to 8 players]
Leadership (1st = Lady, 2nd = Soulcatcher) [2 players]
Taken (The Limper) [1 player]
Misc (Bormaz) [1 player]
BC members [up to 4 players]

Dominator's Faction [1 player]
Leadership (Dominator) [1 player]

Rebellion Faction [2 players]
Leadership (White Rose) [1 player]
The Circle [2 players]
Unnamed Rebels [1 player]

These seem like very uneven teams, which can potentially work if there is 1) a lot of cross recruiting with the Taken, BC, Circle, and Rebels being fair game and/or 2) the smaller factions have a lot of tricks up their sleeves such as a superpower Dom and WR.

I think that the BC is actually smaller (death scene name dropping for story's sake) and the Circle peeps include more players. I also think it is possible the Lady or Soulcatcher don't exist are are just another name place holder.

Ok, this is a long post. I'll back off for a sec.

For some reason he takes it for granted there's only one person in the Dominator faction after the death of Eloth.

Running out of people if you haven't noticed Anthrax. And you didn't play the last game eh? Would explain a lot.