[Barghast]

Tiamatha, on 15 June 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:

this is kind of funny. so what would you have me do okaros, hide in the background like you providing oh so insightful comments like the one quoted right before your vote? [/sarcasm]. but really let's just sit back and debate the current hot topic, whether im scu..i mean...cult or trumpet since that seems to be the only options.

so first, cult. we assumed that there were maybe two cult people (who knows but for the sake of this argument, let's stay with it). we got one of the bastards and now there will be one left, and that has to be the recruiter if there is only two original cults. now, if the recruiter was active, there is one more cult with us. i assume both are lying low now to let numbers build (but hey maybe not!!! maybe the recruiter or new amnion is not so "brilliant" like me)

second, trumpet. if I am trumpet, then there is a high possibility that my team is decimated. don't think the trumpet captain is down, but who knows. also, i expect captians to either lay low or keep there noses clean, something obviously not being done by me. so crew then. if i am trumpet crew, then killing me wastes more time that amnion can use to build ranks and distracts from discussing the other factions, which are probably sitting fat and hppy that nothing is coming there way as of yet.

so that's how i see it right now. maybe i'm too candid and stupid, but really, how else am i to figure out objectives and faction loyalties? keep lynching and hope i get lucky? first day strategy maybe, but kind of a lame game for the rest. there said my peace, gotta get back to work. see you before the day is up (how long do we have?)

I really hate defenses like this - saying you can't be a role/faction because of your playstyle is a purely WIFOM argument and doesn't prove anything. Why would someone play in a manner other than what is expected? Simply because people don't expect it... It doesn't prove anything one way or another.

Alkend, on 15 June 2011 - 08:24 PM, said:

Barghast, on 15 June 2011 - 05:29 AM, said:

Tiamatha, on 15 June 2011 - 02:31 AM, said:

yeah, i was of the mind that just getting that first lynch on day one and was waiting for the start of a consensus, plus i thought fener's adamance was intriguing, so i decided to prod that situation a little.
after that, it was just a pissing match between fener and eloth, and so i just waited out that nasty little storm observing closely (figured I had voted and unless there was some argument to convince me of merrid's innocence, which he didn't seem to interested in espoucing, i would just hold my thoughts until they were worth something with a day and night past, hence the timing of my previus post)
i thought the arguement pettered ot because fener got sick of ranting. whatev

Ok, so you were waiting around for the first thing that looked like a lynch and voted for it, then lurked while other people were taking the focus onto themselves? If this was a normal game you would pretty much have admitted to being scum - I know this a faction game, but seriously?

vote Tiamatha

I was suspicious of your vote yesterday as you seemed a little too willing to just go with whatever was available. Someone else noticed the same thing and called you on it and your response just screams scum to me.

why suspicious of him as opposed to other players on the lynch train? why not me or d'riss who started the damn thing? wasn't you also on the train? if you didn't agree with it then why did you put a vote down? Kalse made some sense about not voting and he stuck with it, i also thought of the reason for not voting, but then i thought that it would just give cultists a pass on day one, i didn't know we'd get lucky night one and nor did 8 other people...

I was suspicious of a couple of people who voted early on and I didn't like Tiam's response to Gam's prodding - hence the vote. Note solely because he voted Merrid early on. I think other people have explained this already.

[Alkend]

Barghy - Gam was cult. So are you linking the two or saying that Gam was distancing from him or accusing him?

[Eloth]

Character list taken from the wiki (duplicated ruse as he appears under spacers and looked like a recruit in his cf). Looks like one other major amnion then is on the hitlist apologies for weird formatting.


SPACERS

• Captain Angus Thermopyle
• Captain Nick Succorso
• Mikka Vasaczk
• Ciro "Pup" Vasaczk
• Dr. Vector Shaheed - merrid
• Sib Mackern - serc
• Captain Sorus Chatelaine - ruse
  

[edit] UMCP (rank and file)

• Morn Hyland
• Captain Davies Hyland (Senior)
• Captain Dolph Ubikwe

[edit] Amnion

• Milos Taverner
• Marc Vestabule gamelon

??? Captain Sorus Chatelaine - ruse
[edit] Other characters

• Davies Hyland (Junior) - HP

[edit] Earth

[edit] UMC

• Cleatus Fane
• Holt Fasner

[edit] UMCP (leadership)

• Warden Dios
• Min Donner
• Hashi Lebwohl
• Koina Hannish
• Godsen Frik

[edit] Other characters

• Captain Sixten Vertigus
• Maxim Igensard

[Fener]

Wow.. Excellent! I can hardly remember anything gamelon has said though. Its a public holiday here so i have to post from my phone. Its a bit difficult to go back and see what he posted. But it looks like he was the head cult guy?

[Barghast]

A quick googling of Gam's role name seems to indicate he might have been Amnion from the start of the game, but I couldn't find much so I could easily be wrong. This brings up two points - one:

Gamelon, on 16 June 2011 - 05:55 AM, said:

Ok, by my count there are 2 hours left. One more vote will be the hammer on Serc.

I would be happier to vote Tiam, personally (despite the cool screen shot thing). Mostly because of his play, and also because I felt the speculating there is the possibility he's cult holds some merit. Serc? I don't know, there isn't enough on him so the chances seem greater that I'm just voting off a low-posting member of my own team. Not to mention the fact he's been on, and has done pretty much jack-all to defend himself, which doesn't strike me as a cult leader trying their best to stay alive.

I'll be on until deadline to hammer if needed though.

This might just be distancing, but Gamelon has been pretty consistent with his pressure on Tiam, including the initial prod that made me drop a vote on Tiam in the first place. Really risky for a cultist consistently put pressure on his recruiter, which makes me think Tiam is unlikely to be the recruiter. Not 100% definitive proof, but good enough that I'm not going to immediately hop back on the Tiam train.
The other thing is that assuming Ruse was also Amnion from the start of the game, we seem to have a much bigger Amnion faction than what would be expected. This would indicate that their recruitment power would be a little toned down to compensate. So maybe only every second day like someone else suggested.

[Fener]

X-post... Ok so he was second in command then. And ruse looks like he was their recruit from night one. This is pretty damn good. Well done to the vig.

[Barghast]

Eloth, on 16 June 2011 - 09:41 AM, said:

Character list taken from the wiki (duplicated ruse as he appears under spacers and looked like a recruit in his cf). Looks like one other major amnion then is on the hitlist apologies for weird formatting.


SPACERS

• Captain Angus Thermopyle
• Captain Nick Succorso
• Mikka Vasaczk
• Ciro "Pup" Vasaczk
• Dr. Vector Shaheed - merrid
• Sib Mackern - serc
• Captain Sorus Chatelaine - ruse
  

[edit] UMCP (rank and file)

• Morn Hyland
• Captain Davies Hyland (Senior)
• Captain Dolph Ubikwe

[edit] Amnion

• Milos Taverner
• Marc Vestabule gamelon

??? Captain Sorus Chatelaine - ruse
[edit] Other characters

• Davies Hyland (Junior) - HP

[edit] Earth

[edit] UMC

• Cleatus Fane
• Holt Fasner

[edit] UMCP (leadership)

• Warden Dios
• Min Donner
• Hashi Lebwohl
• Koina Hannish
• Godsen Frik

[edit] Other characters

• Captain Sixten Vertigus
• Maxim Igensard

ok, so maybe Ruse was the night one recruit after all? Although it is one hell of a coincidence that the recruiter in this game would happen to target the exact same character from the books that becomes recruited, on the first night no less. I get the impression this game is set near the end of the books, so there is still a reasonable chance Ruse started as Amnion.

Fener, I'm not sure that Gam was the recruiter. There is one named Amnion left from that list, worst case says he is the recruiter and has possibly two, but more likely one recruit.



Edit, checked the character list myself like I should have before I posted, Eloth put Ruse's name in twice so he was most likely a recruit then.

This post has been edited by Barghast: 16 June 2011 - 09:54 AM

[Alkend]

Eloth, on 16 June 2011 - 09:41 AM, said:

Character list taken from the wiki (duplicated ruse as he appears under spacers and looked like a recruit in his cf). Looks like one other major amnion then is on the hitlist apologies for weird formatting.


SPACERS

• Captain Angus Thermopyle
• Captain Nick Succorso
• Mikka Vasaczk
• Ciro "Pup" Vasaczk
• Dr. Vector Shaheed - merrid
• Sib Mackern - serc
• Captain Sorus Chatelaine - ruse
  

[edit] UMCP (rank and file)

• Morn Hyland
• Captain Davies Hyland (Senior)
• Captain Dolph Ubikwe

[edit] Amnion

• Milos Taverner
• Marc Vestabule gamelon

??? Captain Sorus Chatelaine - ruse
[edit] Other characters

• Davies Hyland (Junior) - HP

[edit] Earth

[edit] UMC

• Cleatus Fane
• Holt Fasner

[edit] UMCP (leadership)

• Warden Dios
• Min Donner
• Hashi Lebwohl
• Koina Hannish
• Godsen Frik

[edit] Other characters

• Captain Sixten Vertigus
• Maxim Igensard

I was going to do this as well with links and things but you beat me to it.



is it milos we are looking for now?

[Eloth]

Fener, on 16 June 2011 - 09:49 AM, said:

X-post... Ok so he was second in command then. And ruse looks like he was their recruit from night one. This is pretty damn good. Well done to the vig.

i think its how i suggested previously - ruse was the cultist new cult memebers were told about. looking at the wiki i think they started with 2 recruiters (most likely sharing abilities or one getting it fromt he other upon death) with a third member to pass on to new members as their superior in the chain. We had merrid able to either block or reverse recruitment so its likely in my view they would have needed this role from the beginning.

i find it highly unlikely that tiam started as cult, and his lynchability is fairly high so wouldnt be a good pick for a recruit either.

fener - still dont like the ruse connection, but gam didnt seem to have much of an opinion of you. in fact looking back through his posts he didnt seem to agree or defend anyone. Have to admire shins play there, very non comittal about other players beyond accusations. Impressed by our killer really, wouldnt have fingered him as cult.

[Fener]

I suspect... As most cults do. That if the recruiter dies. The ability gets passed on to the next in line. So either the recruiter got killed or his next in line did. Either way is fine by me.

[Barghast]

Eloth, on 16 June 2011 - 10:03 AM, said:

Fener, on 16 June 2011 - 09:49 AM, said:

X-post... Ok so he was second in command then. And ruse looks like he was their recruit from night one. This is pretty damn good. Well done to the vig.

i think its how i suggested previously - ruse was the cultist new cult memebers were told about. looking at the wiki i think they started with 2 recruiters (most likely sharing abilities or one getting it fromt he other upon death) with a third member to pass on to new members as their superior in the chain. We had merrid able to either block or reverse recruitment so its likely in my view they would have needed this role from the beginning.

i find it highly unlikely that tiam started as cult, and his lynchability is fairly high so wouldnt be a good pick for a recruit either.

fener - still dont like the ruse connection, but gam didnt seem to have much of an opinion of you. in fact looking back through his posts he didnt seem to agree or defend anyone. Have to admire shins play there, very non comittal about other players beyond accusations. Impressed by our killer really, wouldnt have fingered him as cult.

I think if anyone was the player new cultists get introduced to it would be Gamelon? Ruse's character is listed as an illegal and likely started the game as a trumpet.

[Eloth]

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 09:56 AM, said:

I was going to do this as well with links and things but you beat me to it.

is it milos we are looking for now?

i would recokon so - read through gams posts, but he doesnt seem buddy buddy with anyone. Its possible he didnt know the other amnion leader, but i think its likely they shared recruiting power and were able to comm off thread. If someone has time they could check off anyone he had his eye on but i am going back to work.

[Fener]

Going to go renew my phone contract now. Hopefully get my new phone today. These smartphones are allot better than my current hunk of junk so should.nt be as impotent later on today as what i have been. Cross fingers!

[Eloth]

Barghast, on 16 June 2011 - 10:10 AM, said:

Eloth, on 16 June 2011 - 10:03 AM, said:

Fener, on 16 June 2011 - 09:49 AM, said:

X-post... Ok so he was second in command then. And ruse looks like he was their recruit from night one. This is pretty damn good. Well done to the vig.

i think its how i suggested previously - ruse was the cultist new cult memebers were told about. looking at the wiki i think they started with 2 recruiters (most likely sharing abilities or one getting it fromt he other upon death) with a third member to pass on to new members as their superior in the chain. We had merrid able to either block or reverse recruitment so its likely in my view they would have needed this role from the beginning.

i find it highly unlikely that tiam started as cult, and his lynchability is fairly high so wouldnt be a good pick for a recruit either.

fener - still dont like the ruse connection, but gam didnt seem to have much of an opinion of you. in fact looking back through his posts he didnt seem to agree or defend anyone. Have to admire shins play there, very non comittal about other players beyond accusations. Impressed by our killer really, wouldnt have fingered him as cult.

I think if anyone was the player new cultists get introduced to it would be Gamelon? Ruse's character is listed as an illegal and likely started the game as a trumpet.

but that would mean he was recruited and killed the same night? Recruitment usually comes after kill. i would guess order is

guard > heal > unrecruit > kill > recruit

In some pastt games we sometimes started with a 'mod puppet' alt being killed in the opening scene to set the game up. anytime there is a cult there is always a recruit in place to be given to new recruits. maybe roldom and tapper just wanted to give their recruit a bit of back story

[Barghast]

Eloth, on 16 June 2011 - 10:22 AM, said:

Barghast, on 16 June 2011 - 10:10 AM, said:

Eloth, on 16 June 2011 - 10:03 AM, said:

Fener, on 16 June 2011 - 09:49 AM, said:

X-post... Ok so he was second in command then. And ruse looks like he was their recruit from night one. This is pretty damn good. Well done to the vig.

i think its how i suggested previously - ruse was the cultist new cult memebers were told about. looking at the wiki i think they started with 2 recruiters (most likely sharing abilities or one getting it fromt he other upon death) with a third member to pass on to new members as their superior in the chain. We had merrid able to either block or reverse recruitment so its likely in my view they would have needed this role from the beginning.

i find it highly unlikely that tiam started as cult, and his lynchability is fairly high so wouldnt be a good pick for a recruit either.

fener - still dont like the ruse connection, but gam didnt seem to have much of an opinion of you. in fact looking back through his posts he didnt seem to agree or defend anyone. Have to admire shins play there, very non comittal about other players beyond accusations. Impressed by our killer really, wouldnt have fingered him as cult.

I think if anyone was the player new cultists get introduced to it would be Gamelon? Ruse's character is listed as an illegal and likely started the game as a trumpet.

but that would mean he was recruited and killed the same night? Recruitment usually comes after kill. i would guess order is

guard > heal > unrecruit > kill > recruit

In some pastt games we sometimes started with a 'mod puppet' alt being killed in the opening scene to set the game up. anytime there is a cult there is always a recruit in place to be given to new recruits. maybe roldom and tapper just wanted to give their recruit a bit of back story

Seeing as how we haven't been told what the resolution order is I wouldn't go and make assumptions like that. I think recruit coming before kill (kill is often resolved last) is more likely than a puppet alt. I'm pretty sure ruse CF'd with a player name too.

[Eloth]

you misunderstand me so maybe i wasnt very clear. Ruse was vengeance. all i am saying is they used the books to choose a character who got recruited in the books as the original recruit. the puppet was just an example of how things are done occassionally and was describing a m&p game not a faction game. The chances that someone who was both recruited and killed on ngiht one was the same character recruited in the books is very slim imo.

[Barghast]

Eloth, on 16 June 2011 - 11:01 AM, said:

you misunderstand me so maybe i wasnt very clear. Ruse was vengeance. all i am saying is they used the books to choose a character who got recruited in the books as the original recruit. the puppet was just an example of how things are done occassionally and was describing a m&p game not a faction game. The chances that someone who was both recruited and killed on ngiht one was the same character recruited in the books is very slim imo.

But he wasn't - I said that because your post had Ruse's character under both factions and got confused. Unless he did actually also get recruited in the books?

[Barghast]

In either case you're not making much sense - how could Vengeance also be a puppet? Why even bring it up if it isn't possible?

[Eloth]

Barghast, on 16 June 2011 - 11:09 AM, said:

Eloth, on 16 June 2011 - 11:01 AM, said:

you misunderstand me so maybe i wasnt very clear. Ruse was vengeance. all i am saying is they used the books to choose a character who got recruited in the books as the original recruit. the puppet was just an example of how things are done occassionally and was describing a m&p game not a faction game. The chances that someone who was both recruited and killed on ngiht one was the same character recruited in the books is very slim imo.

But he wasn't - I said that because your post had Ruse's character under both factions and got confused. Unless he did actually also get recruited in the books?

no i said i wasnt sure were he started so duplicated him into amnion to show his cf, but in the wiki he is down as a spacer. Someone else referenced him earlier to say int he books he starts out as a captain but was captured and converted in the books which is wehre the coincidences started. That makes me think he started amnion rather than was recruited. i dont think i am explaining myself well here sorry.

[Eloth]

Barghast, on 16 June 2011 - 11:12 AM, said:

In either case you're not making much sense - how could Vengeance also be a puppet? Why even bring it up if it isn't possible?

i said that in m&p games we used to start with the death scene of an alt who obviously wasnt associated with a player hence the term puppet. The reaosn i mentioned it was to say thats its not unlikely that vengeance started out as amnion, but within that faction he was essentially a recruit as the character he was is listed as a spacer, and in the books was made into an amnion agent. This 'action' essentially takes place before the game begins in the context of the games story. that way when another person is recruited they would have been told you are now amnion, ruse is in your faction and so if unrecruited they would only know another recruit and not the recruiter.

is that clearer?