[Barghast]

Tiamatha, on 16 June 2011 - 04:16 PM, said:

Barghast, on 16 June 2011 - 04:12 PM, said:

I can kind of see your logic, but I don't really agreet to it - your first primary goal is to fulfill your VC. Trying to nerf the other factions is only relevant when they affect your VC, suddenly switching tack for a contingency doesn't really help you. If the Amnion are hard to find then you hope to take out power players from the factions along the way. Hell the best way to do so is to accuse them of being cult...

which, btw is what I've been trying to do if you look at my earlier posts. i want to take out the leaders since they seem to be the potentially easily identified role. but as, i believe, fener pointed out, going after lower posters isn't working that well, hence this new tact of trying to gain consensus and develop a better way of identifying someone, anyone!

Off course going after low posters hasn't worked, it's one step above blind luck in terms of mafia tactics. That's why you're supposed to observe the thread, build cases, apply pressure, get into arguments and hope for a bit of luck when the night actions resolve. The whole point is to be as crafty and convincing as possible. I don't see how you could possibly hope that everyone is just going to step forward and reveal the info required to take them out.

[D'riss]

@Kara - I don't know why, but I have had both Fener and Tiam as trumpet. Most likely related to Tiam not recording his posts because he saw some sort of signaling.

@ Ano - I now what symp is. I'm saying that the CF on him said that he had lots of Amnion thingies in his blood. The CF on Gamelon said that he was an Amnion. I think that is a difference that needs to be brought up.

So alkend revealed as trumpet, and so did tiam, firmly this time. Still reading up, let me finish.

[D'riss]

So Alkend revealed VC's and Tiam 'confirmed' them, but Tiam has been doing something not in line with the VC's. Interesting.

@Ano - you said that someone before Alkend revealed that the trumpet VC is eliminating the cult. He asked for where that has already been said, and I don't recall seeing it either. Can you be more specific?

Anyone else want to reveal as trumpet? I'd bet there are a couple more ;P I'm worried that neither Alkend nor Tiam is a trumpet and they are just 'agreeing' with each other to try and seem 'safe'. I'm also suprised (or not) to see Kalse is busy not making any waves again. With Gamelon being a low-posting cultist... if there is another one (and we have to assume there is), wouldn't they be loud and trying to direct the thread? Just a thought.

[D'riss]

Gamelon, on 13 June 2011 - 12:38 PM, said:

And seriously, all caps? That's how my 65 year old uncle writes his emails....

The only people who then talk about a 65 year old uncle are Barghast and Ruse.

2 confirmed cultists? Could this have been signaling?

Im going to re-read the thread and it might take a bit since I'm slow, but I'll be putting thoughts as I go through it.

[D'riss]

So, assuming that Kalse is a leader of some sort, it looks like he is a trumpet leader and he fought against the lynching of Merrid.

Here is the train:

Quote

8 Votes for Merrid ( Alkend, D'riss, Tiamatha, Fener, Eloth, Hood's Path, Barghast, Karatallid )

Players not voted: Anomandaris, Gamelon, Kalse, Liosan, Merrid, Okaros, Ruse, Serc

With Liosan hammering. (Thank you for not putting the full train in the lynch post, PS ;P)

Kalse pointed out before the hammer that he thought the Fener -> Eloth switch off of each other and onto the train was extremely weird. Reading it again, it is. Especially with how 'angry' fener was, then suddenly switching to the 'lowposter' and being fine with it.

[Anomandaris]

D, on 16 June 2011 - 05:04 PM, said:

So Alkend revealed VC's and Tiam 'confirmed' them, but Tiam has been doing something not in line with the VC's. Interesting.

@Ano - you said that someone before Alkend revealed that the trumpet VC is eliminating the cult. He asked for where that has already been said, and I don't recall seeing it either. Can you be more specific?

Anyone else want to reveal as trumpet? I'd bet there are a couple more ;P I'm worried that neither Alkend nor Tiam is a trumpet and they are just 'agreeing' with each other to try and seem 'safe'. I'm also suprised (or not) to see Kalse is busy not making any waves again. With Gamelon being a low-posting cultist... if there is another one (and we have to assume there is), wouldn't they be loud and trying to direct the thread? Just a thought.

I knew it had been brought up before on-thread and figured it was Tiam, but actually Alkend just spouted it twice.

Here:

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

you know guys i have had tiam pegged as town and defended him a few times yet that post admitting he is trumpet doesn't sit right with me at all, i have thought that the team with the crazy win conditions would be ump or umpc, where as amnion need majority and trumpet need to be rid of amnion, that is how is see it

and here:

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:30 PM, said:

Kalse, on 16 June 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

Trying to get caught up, haven't been on since the server went down ...

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

you know guys i have had tiam pegged as town and defended him a few times yet that post admitting he is trumpet doesn't sit right with me at all, i have thought that the team with the crazy win conditions would be ump or umpc, where as amnion need majority and trumpet need to be rid of amnion, that is how is see it

There's no such thing as town in this game - people who keep referring to "town" and "scum" are really making me suspicious, because they seem to have a "good guys vs. bad guys" mind-set, that might come from being one of the cultists.

And Tiam came across heavily as Trumpet a few times, it's already been pointed out. His admission is not hard to believe.

well my win condition is to eliminate amnion and my team wins. if he was trumpet then that would be his win condition too.

[Anomandaris]

D, on 16 June 2011 - 05:24 PM, said:

So, assuming that Kalse is a leader of some sort, it looks like he is a trumpet leader and he fought against the lynching of Merrid.

Here is the train:

Quote

8 Votes for Merrid ( Alkend, D'riss, Tiamatha, Fener, Eloth, Hood's Path, Barghast, Karatallid )

Players not voted: Anomandaris, Gamelon, Kalse, Liosan, Merrid, Okaros, Ruse, Serc

With Liosan hammering. (Thank you for not putting the full train in the lynch post, PS ;P)

Kalse pointed out before the hammer that he thought the Fener -> Eloth switch off of each other and onto the train was extremely weird. Reading it again, it is. Especially with how 'angry' fener was, then suddenly switching to the 'lowposter' and being fine with it.

Why the assumption that Kalse is a leader?

As for Fener and Eloth agreeing on Merrid, people don't often get really emotionally involved on day 1. Despite the number of posts, their argument was only a little heated and I don't see why Fener wouldn't switch to get a vote when he was seeing his day 1 argument fail. OTOH, he did switch a lot earlier than necessary for that, when he more likely would've waited until later in the day to give in. The whole thing is fairly suspicious. Plus, it IS fener...

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 23 hours and 33 minutes remaining

11 Players still alive: Alkend, Anomandaris, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Fener, Kalse, Karatallid, Liosan, Okaros, Tiamatha

6 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.


Players not voted: Alkend, Anomandaris, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Fener, Kalse, Karatallid, Liosan, Okaros, Tiamatha

[D'riss]

Gamelon, on 15 June 2011 - 01:34 AM, said:

Merrid might have been a healer, yes, but I thought it was interesting he didn't really do much to try to deflect attention from him. If I had the ability to deflect NK's from my faction members, I would have been a little more proactive attempting to prevent my lynch.

I'm trying not to read too much into possible "hidden motivations" behind Fener and Eloth's argument. It seems like they were legitimately having it out over a difference in strategy, especially since they sort of toned it down near the end and admitted some understanding of each other at least. It would be a pretty ballsy cult leader to have a major tiff like that on day one. To be honest, I had a little bit of suspicion towards you, tiam, because you came on and joined the Merrid train as the third vote, and then never showed up for the rest of the day until now.

Gamelon is also trying to distract from the Fener/Eloth thing, and point onto Tiam.

Barghast then hops on Tiam with a vote in his next post.

Quote

Ok, so you were waiting around for the first thing that looked like a lynch and voted for it, then lurked while other people were taking the focus onto themselves? If this was a normal game you would pretty much have admitted to being scum - I know this a faction game, but seriously?

vote Tiamatha

I was suspicious of your vote yesterday as you seemed a little too willing to just go with whatever was available. Someone else noticed the same thing and called you on it and your response just screams scum to me.

[Barghast]

D, on 16 June 2011 - 05:04 PM, said:

So Alkend revealed VC's and Tiam 'confirmed' them, but Tiam has been doing something not in line with the VC's. Interesting.

@Ano - you said that someone before Alkend revealed that the trumpet VC is eliminating the cult. He asked for where that has already been said, and I don't recall seeing it either. Can you be more specific?

Anyone else want to reveal as trumpet? I'd bet there are a couple more ;P I'm worried that neither Alkend nor Tiam is a trumpet and they are just 'agreeing' with each other to try and seem 'safe'. I'm also suprised (or not) to see Kalse is busy not making any waves again. With Gamelon being a low-posting cultist... if there is another one (and we have to assume there is), wouldn't they be loud and trying to direct the thread? Just a thought.

For that to be true though Alkend would have had to have correctly guessed the Trumpet VC. Otherwise a trumpet would call them out on it. Weirder things have happened, but I think it is highly unlikely that it is the case.

[D'riss]

Anomandaris, on 15 June 2011 - 02:27 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 15 June 2011 - 12:55 PM, said:

D, on 14 June 2011 - 08:40 PM, said:

Someone hit a cultist. Or is that symp cultist? Hmm. I've got to re-read with the new info, but I need food. Will try and be back tonight, will be on early tomorrow morning if I dont make it.

D'riss is really really really pinging my radar. he keeps giving excuses for disappearing, which in an of themselves are not bad, but then he never follows up with any solid speculations or content. i'd peg him for being a capt, but considering that all leaders are in play still, i would be nervous aobut the 1 in 4 chance of hitting the trumpets leader (does anyone think that eliminating all trumpets is a game win condition?)

on that note, i also think we need to start getting a discussion going trying to tease out both winnning conditions for each faction and their following MOs. as I mentioned earlier, and as you all know, this is faction game not town/scum so we need to think a little with a more complexity

but, we have four leaders and maybe seconds right? and there is a recruiter and at least two night killers. we haven't even talked about UMPC and UMC. what special rolls would they have? and they are the biggest human factions right? rereading the OP i would speculate that UMC's "dragon" is also an ultimate enemy and even though we need to get rid of the cult first because of its potential to grow while the rest of us diminish, i don't think we should let that second story line slide of our radar

Suggesting a discussion to tease out winning conditions is going to make everyone clam up about them. You would have had better luck if you'd just tried to start such a conversation without prefacing it

With four factions and many of them on seeming friendly terms (ie the UMPC work for the UMC, the Trumpets are sent by the UMPC, the UMC trade resources with the Amnion), I wonder if this isn't a Locke Lamora-style faction circle, with each faction trying to eliminate the one ahead of it. I guess the order would go something like UMPC >> Amnion >> Trumpets >> UMC >> UMPC, with each trying to wipe out the faction to the right of it. That's entirely speculation on my part, though.

This leads me to believe Ano is either UMC or UMPC, since he said Amnion is trying to kill the trumpets, and the trumpets are trying to kill the UMC.

[Alkend]

D, on 16 June 2011 - 05:24 PM, said:

So, assuming that Kalse is a leader of some sort, it looks like he is a trumpet leader and he fought against the lynching of Merrid.

Here is the train:

Quote

8 Votes for Merrid ( Alkend, D'riss, Tiamatha, Fener, Eloth, Hood's Path, Barghast, Karatallid )

Players not voted: Anomandaris, Gamelon, Kalse, Liosan, Merrid, Okaros, Ruse, Serc

With Liosan hammering. (Thank you for not putting the full train in the lynch post, PS ;P)

Kalse pointed out before the hammer that he thought the Fener -> Eloth switch off of each other and onto the train was extremely weird. Reading it again, it is. Especially with how 'angry' fener was, then suddenly switching to the 'lowposter' and being fine with it.

that is twice that liosan has not been included in thelynch train, the last time nearly cost us a lynch....

[D'riss]

Anomandaris, on 16 June 2011 - 05:33 PM, said:

Why the assumption that Kalse is a leader?

As for Fener and Eloth agreeing on Merrid, people don't often get really emotionally involved on day 1. Despite the number of posts, their argument was only a little heated and I don't see why Fener wouldn't switch to get a vote when he was seeing his day 1 argument fail. OTOH, he did switch a lot earlier than necessary for that, when he more likely would've waited until later in the day to give in. The whole thing is fairly suspicious. Plus, it IS fener...

Go read his posts. He is a power role of some sort. He is doing everything he can to not make waves.

And the Fener/Eloth thing... just read through it. It was odd, especially when it happened before there really was a 'train' and were just a couple votes.

@Barghast - I know. Unless all the trumpets are dead or hiding. Lets say that Kalse is the last 'real' trumpet, Morn. She is can apparently ignore pain and might have some NK's. Of course, judging by the scene, she wants to 'get to earth' to destroy the UMC and remove the UMCP from the UMC. Does it make sense then that either the UMCP or UMC might have VC's to kill both Morn and Davies? And Davies s already dead, right? Therefore Morn is worried that if she reveals as a trumpet with the 'real' trumpet VC's, then the UMCP can win the game by killing her.

Look at that speculation. LOOK AT IT.

[D'riss]

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 05:46 PM, said:

that is twice that liosan has not been included in thelynch train, the last time nearly cost us a lynch....

Are you implying that Liosan's vote doesn't count? Because the first day it did, it was a hammer, PS just never gave us the full train with the Scene. I lost my place but am not done going through the second day yet.

[Liosan]

D, on 16 June 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 05:46 PM, said:

that is twice that liosan has not been included in thelynch train, the last time nearly cost us a lynch....

Are you implying that Liosan's vote doesn't count? Because the first day it did, it was a hammer, PS just never gave us the full train with the Scene. I lost my place but am not done going through the second day yet.

Yeah, what's the deal with that anyway? I wasn't the hammer on Serc, I thought I put him at L-1. did my vote not count? or is this just an error by P-S?

[Tiamatha]

this is great all, and yes i see your speculation d'riss and like the fact you are going back to OP,

fener is really throwing me for a loop. I have listed below a lot of quotes, but what i mainly want to point out is the change in tone throughout the days, starting with one quote from the very end of day one till the middle of this day. my take is that fener does get very agreeable, though he seems to work really hard at seeming anti-amnion. this could go several ways, but one way i would like to consider is what if he was converted to amnion. may explain the suddenness between day 1 and day 2. and he could be trying to stay away from being called amnion by being so vocally adamant about focusing on solely on cult. of course, the focus on cult can also be an honest drive that benefits any of the factions.

anyway, all this to say that i don't know what is going on with fener. he is oscillating between extremes, and after work tonight, i think i'll start to browse eloth to see if i too can make some contributions to all this thinking above.

Fener, on 14 June 2011 - 03:38 PM, said:

Eloth, on 14 June 2011 - 03:25 PM, said:

Fener, on 14 June 2011 - 03:17 PM, said:

Eloth, on 14 June 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

Fener, on 14 June 2011 - 02:49 PM, said:

Eloth, on 14 June 2011 - 02:39 PM, said:

you orreacted to the suggestion of going for low posters claiming its a pet peeve, then to disprove you are in any way attached to merrid you are willing to throw him to the wolves. Considering your claim that you voted me because i didnt care who I voted for, when at the slightest nudge you manage to make yourself a perfectly reasonable lynch, you have the nerve to turn around and vote for merrid simply to prove you werent protecting him. so irrational and mercenary.

remove vote

vote merrid

we need to lynch everyday and dspite feners play i cannot see him being lynched.

im damned if i do and im damned if i dont....so watever dude.
You the one who put us together....so its on you.
I really do hope he is your team mate and not mine.

I never ovreacted to the alkends vote though...as much as you would like to delude youself and the rest that i did.

I might have overreacted to your views of voting day 1 however...meh

When we started talking I had three posts and you had two and we were middle to top of the post count. Saying that a lynch would be luck (my words) or random (your words) on day 1 when the majority of people havent posted isnt trying to run a game by lynching off low posters its simply stating a fact. Even now 90 % of those playing have less than ten posts, any chance of determining a players faction based on a scattering of posts is very low and totally dependant on them either making mistakes or placing clues in their posts. I honestly do not know where you are getting your anger from as regards my opinion on voting off a low poster. Especially when i was waiting for people to show up and hadnt even actively pushed against a specific player.

UGGH....yes but you where saying it was pointless even TRYING!

And why didnt you step up if you where also a low poster and wonder why you werent mentioned?
It makes even less sense to me that you would condone this when you are one of the very low posters that we where talking about.

I was saying that having that attitude is bad... you cant just slip into the old adage every game that "oh...day one is always random"
That then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy every single game if people have that semi defeatest attitude towards day one.

The fact that you where just resigned to let it be random and not even try to have a go at it and even argued against trying smacked to me of someone who damn well didnt care.

ie... cult.

Just because someone mentions something about you, you have got your knickers in a twist. I did do something fener and so did you, we discussed things and made this a fairly active day 1, so enough of the blustering. Discussing the fact that we have to vote off a low poster and trust in luck when the average post count is 5 or less doesnt make someone want to vote off at random its just going to be inevitable when the field is full of them.

You got it wrong...it wasnt a personal thing.
Yes i was mentioned.
But it was more the fact that laying the smack down on someone for being a low poster so early in the game is just stoopid!...and lazy.


Why it escalated was because of your defeatist attitude towards how we should approach day 1.
That its automatically always random. so whats the point then?

You keep saying everyone has 5 posts...but you couldn't know that the game wouldn't explode.
I suppose it wouldn't if everyone has the same mind set as you about day one.

But im done arguing with you.
wat ever.

Im going now... hope the day was informative and more interesting than what eloth would like it to be.
Day one need not be random, if we put in some effort.

im out for the rest of the day...
Cioa

Fener, on 15 June 2011 - 08:16 AM, said:

aah...ok
makes sense.

amnions aint humans
And human recruits are infected with their gene..mutating them into one.
got it.

Fener, on 15 June 2011 - 02:26 PM, said:

Eloth, on 15 June 2011 - 02:18 PM, said:

D, on 15 June 2011 - 01:43 PM, said:

DId you guys know that Serc is alive and has like 5 posts total?

:shhhhhh: dont mention low posters - fener might start pissing up against your leg :shhhhhh:

dont get me started.



anyways...we couldnt possibly pull off the same type of "herding collaboration" like we did yesterday again today, it would be too obviousl

Fener, on 16 June 2011 - 09:49 AM, said:

X-post... Ok so he was second in command then. And ruse looks like he was their recruit from night one. This is pretty damn good. Well done to the vig.

Fener, on 16 June 2011 - 10:06 AM, said:

I suspect... As most cults do. That if the recruiter dies. The ability gets passed on to the next in line. So either the recruiter got killed or his next in line did. Either way is fine by me.

Fener, on 16 June 2011 - 11:29 AM, said:

Ok i get it. You are saying ruse could be the 1st cult member in a daisy chain style cult setup. Where one cult member only knows the recruit before him. Fair enough.

Fener, on 16 June 2011 - 11:38 AM, said:

You can't be sure about anything in this game. I don't see anything wrong with us discussing it.

Fener, on 16 June 2011 - 12:55 PM, said:

We need to kill off the cult asap. Cult can grow very quickly and im not sure i like that you keep wanting us to start looking elsewhere. So tell us then? Who do we go for and why? UMCP? Or the other?

Fener, on 16 June 2011 - 02:42 PM, said:

Tiam you have to have the view of siding with the lesser of two evils. We all know that any game with cult in is almost a forgone conclusion. That is how strong they can be. So the rest of the factions invariably have to team up to take them out. It sucks that we have been lynching trumpet! But its not like anyone is doing it on purpose. I could be trumpet too you know. I just know where the biggest threat is right now. And that is the ever growing cult. As the cult get bigger we all get smaller. Every time they recruit they get a 2 vote swing to protect their leader. And its shameful to say that if not for the vigs we would be looking pretty bad right now. Cult would be about 5 players strong and counting. We can't start to lose focus when we got them under the thumb. I understand you are worried about the other tribes right now but im fairly sure its in all the tribes interest to get cult killed first and not the trumpet.

[Barghast]

D, on 16 June 2011 - 05:54 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 16 June 2011 - 05:33 PM, said:

Why the assumption that Kalse is a leader?

As for Fener and Eloth agreeing on Merrid, people don't often get really emotionally involved on day 1. Despite the number of posts, their argument was only a little heated and I don't see why Fener wouldn't switch to get a vote when he was seeing his day 1 argument fail. OTOH, he did switch a lot earlier than necessary for that, when he more likely would've waited until later in the day to give in. The whole thing is fairly suspicious. Plus, it IS fener...

Go read his posts. He is a power role of some sort. He is doing everything he can to not make waves.

And the Fener/Eloth thing... just read through it. It was odd, especially when it happened before there really was a 'train' and were just a couple votes.

@Barghast - I know. Unless all the trumpets are dead or hiding. Lets say that Kalse is the last 'real' trumpet, Morn. She is can apparently ignore pain and might have some NK's. Of course, judging by the scene, she wants to 'get to earth' to destroy the UMC and remove the UMCP from the UMC. Does it make sense then that either the UMCP or UMC might have VC's to kill both Morn and Davies? And Davies s already dead, right? Therefore Morn is worried that if she reveals as a trumpet with the 'real' trumpet VC's, then the UMCP can win the game by killing her.

Look at that speculation. LOOK AT IT.

Ok, I will admit I hadn't thought of that. I still think it is unlikely that Cult would play like that. Unless they knew for a fact that they wouldn't be countered.

The real question is what do we do with the two sitting duck trumpets? Players outed as being recruitable (working on the assumption they are as Trumpet seems to be recruitment fodder) are a huge bundle of WIFOM since they are obvious recruitment targets.

[D'riss]

But they don't have to be cult. What if they are UMP or UMCP, masquerading as Trumpet to be 'unlynchable'? If one of them has some sort of defense against getting hit by amnions, like a vig-response, that would be an awesome play.

My head hurts.

[Anomandaris]

D, on 16 June 2011 - 06:26 PM, said:

But they don't have to be cult. What if they are UMP or UMCP, masquerading as Trumpet to be 'unlynchable'? If one of them has some sort of defense against getting hit by amnions, like a vig-response, that would be an awesome play.

My head hurts.

It's a possibility, but I think they've outed themselves as likely cult targets, so they're bound to get lynched eventually. I say leave them for now. It's unlikely they are recruited yet, so if cult wants to try and profit from knowing some easily recruited players they'll go for it and then we'll have some easy cult lynches. OTOH, cult may figure the same and not recruit them, in which case there's still no reason to lynch them. Either way, I say we go for someone else today. Looks like Fener is shaping up to be a big candidate today, and Barghast a bit, too.

[D'riss]

Alkend, on 15 June 2011 - 07:59 PM, said:

Ruse, on 14 June 2011 - 04:52 PM, said:

Well that was fun reading. Nothing like a heated discussion on the differences of day one lynches to get a lynch. I found the discussion more interesting then the train. It seemed that the perceived connection between fener and merrid was pretty minimal. I actually found eloths and Alkends combine drive to have more in common.
I guess we are waiting on the nights resolution. Oh well.

trying to take heat off fener anyone? cult knowing cult and all that, subtely done, ruse didn't know he would be targeted that night did he?

Here is something found by Alkend on Ruse, which I missed....