[Anomandaris]

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:30 PM, said:

Kalse, on 16 June 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

Trying to get caught up, haven't been on since the server went down ...

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

you know guys i have had tiam pegged as town and defended him a few times yet that post admitting he is trumpet doesn't sit right with me at all, i have thought that the team with the crazy win conditions would be ump or umpc, where as amnion need majority and trumpet need to be rid of amnion, that is how is see it

There's no such thing as town in this game - people who keep referring to "town" and "scum" are really making me suspicious, because they seem to have a "good guys vs. bad guys" mind-set, that might come from being one of the cultists.

And Tiam came across heavily as Trumpet a few times, it's already been pointed out. His admission is not hard to believe.

well my win condition is to eliminate amnion and my team wins. if he was trumpet then that would be his win condition too.

That's already been said on-thread. You trying to pretend it is new info to make yourself look like trumpet?

[Alkend]

Anomandaris, on 16 June 2011 - 03:34 PM, said:

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:30 PM, said:

Kalse, on 16 June 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

Trying to get caught up, haven't been on since the server went down ...

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

you know guys i have had tiam pegged as town and defended him a few times yet that post admitting he is trumpet doesn't sit right with me at all, i have thought that the team with the crazy win conditions would be ump or umpc, where as amnion need majority and trumpet need to be rid of amnion, that is how is see it

There's no such thing as town in this game - people who keep referring to "town" and "scum" are really making me suspicious, because they seem to have a "good guys vs. bad guys" mind-set, that might come from being one of the cultists.

And Tiam came across heavily as Trumpet a few times, it's already been pointed out. His admission is not hard to believe.

well my win condition is to eliminate amnion and my team wins. if he was trumpet then that would be his win condition too.

That's already been said on-thread. You trying to pretend it is new info to make yourself look like trumpet?

where has it been said?

[Alkend]

an if it has then why is tiam trying to locate other factions when all he needs to do is get rid of amnion?

[Liosan]

Kalse, on 16 June 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

Trying to get caught up, haven't been on since the server went down ...

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

you know guys i have had tiam pegged as town and defended him a few times yet that post admitting he is trumpet doesn't sit right with me at all, i have thought that the team with the crazy win conditions would be ump or umpc, where as amnion need majority and trumpet need to be rid of amnion, that is how is see it

There's no such thing as town in this game - people who keep referring to "town" and "scum" are really making me suspicious, because they seem to have a "good guys vs. bad guys" mind-set, that might come from being one of the cultists.

And Tiam came across heavily as Trumpet a few times, it's already been pointed out. His admission is not hard to believe.

Although the town/scum references aren't really accurate, many people have described their overall objective of the game as "eliminate cult". In the sense that this pits the cult against the other three factions, I can understand how people are using "town" to mean "not-cult". All the bitching about it seems pretty pedantic. Anyway.

I am extremely wary of trying to deduce player roles and factions based on a wiki summary of the books' characters... Even if our guesses end up being correct, it really doesn't inform us at all about the faction's numbers or who might be part of those factions. It looks like Trumpet started off as the biggest faction? And cult can recruit. This will skew the numbers pretty heavily, I imagine. I guess there's no harm in speculating but I can't see any benefits from it.

[Alkend]

i don't need to look for ump or umpc as thyey are nothing to do with my win conditions, it doesn't matter to me if they survive the whole thing, it is cult i want gone, so why is tiam who is supposedly on my team looking for the other factions?

[Barghast]

Tiamatha, on 16 June 2011 - 02:22 PM, said:

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 01:50 PM, said:

@Tiam - are you saying you are trumpet?

i mean i have been hinting at that all game, and i guess i should just reveal and say yes im trumpet (i haven't enjoyed seeing my team knocked off). unfortunately, im not sure how many of my team members there are left, so im at a loss at that. and yes fener, i still, and always, have agreed amnion need to go. i just don't want to keep lynching my own team mates and then have umpc or umc swoop in to win the game. but yeah, im sure this reveal doesn't really do much for anyone since i could be lying, but currently, if you can believe me, i am just a trumpet

At this point I am not surprised by this announcement either. Whether it's actually true is up to debate -

Tiamatha, on 16 June 2011 - 03:19 PM, said:

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

you know guys i have had tiam pegged as town and defended him a few times yet that post admitting he is trumpet doesn't sit right with me at all, i have thought that the team with the crazy win conditions would be ump or umpc, where as amnion need majority and trumpet need to be rid of amnion, that is how is see it

you asked, i answered (fairly low risk considering that i have been probably pretty obvious since i am not that great at subtly). i am glad, btw, that you gave your opinion of VCs. hopefully, that will ring a bell with one of the groups so that either they peg you as one or the other faction.

This could be hinting that Tiam has recognised Alkend's statement here and has spotted him as a team mate, but

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:30 PM, said:

Kalse, on 16 June 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

Trying to get caught up, haven't been on since the server went down ...

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

you know guys i have had tiam pegged as town and defended him a few times yet that post admitting he is trumpet doesn't sit right with me at all, i have thought that the team with the crazy win conditions would be ump or umpc, where as amnion need majority and trumpet need to be rid of amnion, that is how is see it

There's no such thing as town in this game - people who keep referring to "town" and "scum" are really making me suspicious, because they seem to have a "good guys vs. bad guys" mind-set, that might come from being one of the cultists.

And Tiam came across heavily as Trumpet a few times, it's already been pointed out. His admission is not hard to believe.

well my win condition is to eliminate amnion and my team wins. if he was trumpet then that would be his win condition too.

Tiam has been pushing hard to look away from the cult. Granted this was before he admitted outright to being trumpet, but he had already been hinting at it for a while. Alkend I gather you are also admitting to being trumpet and I gather you don't understand why he would want to do anything other than attack cult if he was on your team?

[Alkend]

good cross post with barghast. exactly, if he was trumpet then he'd be looking for cult and only cult.

[Barghast]

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:43 PM, said:

good cross post with barghast. exactly, if he was trumpet then he'd be looking for cult and only cult.

Yeah, I see

It does look suspicious, but I want to see what Tiam's response to this is before I place a vote though.

[Alkend]

which is the reason i haven't voted, i don't want to vote a team mate off obviously.

[Liosan]

Fener, on 16 June 2011 - 02:42 PM, said:

Tiam you have to have the view of siding with the lesser of two evils. We all know that any game with cult in is almost a forgone conclusion. That is how strong they can be. So the rest of the factions invariably have to team up to take them out. It sucks that we have been lynching trumpet! But its not like anyone is doing it on purpose. I could be trumpet too you know. I just know where the biggest threat is right now. And that is the ever growing cult. As the cult get bigger we all get smaller. Every time they recruit they get a 2 vote swing to protect their leader. And its shameful to say that if not for the vigs we would be looking pretty bad right now. Cult would be about 5 players strong and counting. We can't start to lose focus when we got them under the thumb. I understand you are worried about the other tribes right now but im fairly sure its in all the tribes interest to get cult killed first and not the trumpet.

I'm just going to reiterate what a lot of people seem to be saying (see above). @Tiam - even if your suggestion to look for factions other than the cult was a decent idea, how would you propose to do it? I mean, do we have enough information for that to even be possible? It seems like the only logical thing you can do is try to identify members of your own faction (in your case, Trumpet (allegedly)) and not vote for them. Which is what we've all been doing, supposedly. I don't see how you can possibly distinguish between cult and the other factions, so why suggest trying?

edit - faction to factions

This post has been edited by Liosan: 16 June 2011 - 03:48 PM

[Tiamatha]

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:30 PM, said:

Kalse, on 16 June 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

Trying to get caught up, haven't been on since the server went down ...

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

you know guys i have had tiam pegged as town and defended him a few times yet that post admitting he is trumpet doesn't sit right with me at all, i have thought that the team with the crazy win conditions would be ump or umpc, where as amnion need majority and trumpet need to be rid of amnion, that is how is see it

There's no such thing as town in this game - people who keep referring to "town" and "scum" are really making me suspicious, because they seem to have a "good guys vs. bad guys" mind-set, that might come from being one of the cultists.

And Tiam came across heavily as Trumpet a few times, it's already been pointed out. His admission is not hard to believe.

well my win condition is to eliminate amnion and my team wins. if he was trumpet then that would be his win condition too.

considering that i have been deliberately vague about my own VCs, i can confirm that this is exactly my VC and the only one im given. now the question is, can we trust either of us considering the option of recruitment to amnion. we always need to be aware while the recruiter is out there than despite good intentions in earlier days, we can be flipped. just want to remind everyone so that none of us lapse into complacency

[Liosan]

Barghast, on 16 June 2011 - 11:58 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 16 June 2011 - 11:44 AM, said:

when we meet captian sorus (vengence) in the book, she is a human who has been poisoned with a delayed action amnion mutagen. the amnion give her a 24 hour anti dote, if she wants to stay human, she has to do exactly what they say.

so while she is a pirate, she is on the amnion side, which is why she CF as amnion

Ok, I think it's best if everyone disregard's all the stuff I said since Eloth posted the wiki entry as I am just confusing things and obviously shouldn't make assumptions when I don't actually know what's going on.

Ruse was recruited before the start of the game. Got it.

Did I miss something? I don't understand that last sentence. how was Ruse recruited before the start of the game...?

[Barghast]

Tiamatha, on 16 June 2011 - 03:55 PM, said:

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:30 PM, said:

Kalse, on 16 June 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

Trying to get caught up, haven't been on since the server went down ...

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

you know guys i have had tiam pegged as town and defended him a few times yet that post admitting he is trumpet doesn't sit right with me at all, i have thought that the team with the crazy win conditions would be ump or umpc, where as amnion need majority and trumpet need to be rid of amnion, that is how is see it

There's no such thing as town in this game - people who keep referring to "town" and "scum" are really making me suspicious, because they seem to have a "good guys vs. bad guys" mind-set, that might come from being one of the cultists.

And Tiam came across heavily as Trumpet a few times, it's already been pointed out. His admission is not hard to believe.

well my win condition is to eliminate amnion and my team wins. if he was trumpet then that would be his win condition too.

considering that i have been deliberately vague about my own VCs, i can confirm that this is exactly my VC and the only one im given. now the question is, can we trust either of us considering the option of recruitment to amnion. we always need to be aware while the recruiter is out there than despite good intentions in earlier days, we can be flipped. just want to remind everyone so that none of us lapse into complacency

Why have you been pushing so hard to look at other factions is your only VC was to kill Amnion? The whole 'do we lynch the outed faction player' WIFOM can come later.

[Barghast]

Liosan, on 16 June 2011 - 03:58 PM, said:

Barghast, on 16 June 2011 - 11:58 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 16 June 2011 - 11:44 AM, said:

when we meet captian sorus (vengence) in the book, she is a human who has been poisoned with a delayed action amnion mutagen. the amnion give her a 24 hour anti dote, if she wants to stay human, she has to do exactly what they say.

so while she is a pirate, she is on the amnion side, which is why she CF as amnion

Ok, I think it's best if everyone disregard's all the stuff I said since Eloth posted the wiki entry as I am just confusing things and obviously shouldn't make assumptions when I don't actually know what's going on.

Ruse was recruited before the start of the game. Got it.

Did I miss something? I don't understand that last sentence. how was Ruse recruited before the start of the game...?

In that he started off the game as a human working for the Amnion- much like a recruit would be. So storyline wise he was recruited, but it was before the point in the story were the game starts.

[Liosan]

Tiamatha, on 16 June 2011 - 03:55 PM, said:

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:30 PM, said:

Kalse, on 16 June 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

Trying to get caught up, haven't been on since the server went down ...

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

you know guys i have had tiam pegged as town and defended him a few times yet that post admitting he is trumpet doesn't sit right with me at all, i have thought that the team with the crazy win conditions would be ump or umpc, where as amnion need majority and trumpet need to be rid of amnion, that is how is see it

There's no such thing as town in this game - people who keep referring to "town" and "scum" are really making me suspicious, because they seem to have a "good guys vs. bad guys" mind-set, that might come from being one of the cultists.

And Tiam came across heavily as Trumpet a few times, it's already been pointed out. His admission is not hard to believe.

well my win condition is to eliminate amnion and my team wins. if he was trumpet then that would be his win condition too.

considering that i have been deliberately vague about my own VCs, i can confirm that this is exactly my VC and the only one im given. now the question is, can we trust either of us considering the option of recruitment to amnion. we always need to be aware while the recruiter is out there than despite good intentions in earlier days, we can be flipped. just want to remind everyone so that none of us lapse into complacency

In addition to being wary about members of your own faction being recruited, we also need to remember that now that two people have independently revealed their VC's it would be pretty easy for someone else to fake reveal as Trumpet. In fact, tiam, this could even apply to you as you're basically just confirming what Alkend said... This is a problem inherent in faction games where you have differing information by faction, ie VCs, where in an M&P game there is very little actual cover that you can use to fake reveal.

[Liosan]

Barghast, on 16 June 2011 - 04:00 PM, said:

Liosan, on 16 June 2011 - 03:58 PM, said:

Barghast, on 16 June 2011 - 11:58 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 16 June 2011 - 11:44 AM, said:

when we meet captian sorus (vengence) in the book, she is a human who has been poisoned with a delayed action amnion mutagen. the amnion give her a 24 hour anti dote, if she wants to stay human, she has to do exactly what they say.

so while she is a pirate, she is on the amnion side, which is why she CF as amnion

Ok, I think it's best if everyone disregard's all the stuff I said since Eloth posted the wiki entry as I am just confusing things and obviously shouldn't make assumptions when I don't actually know what's going on.

Ruse was recruited before the start of the game. Got it.

Did I miss something? I don't understand that last sentence. how was Ruse recruited before the start of the game...?

In that he started off the game as a human working for the Amnion- much like a recruit would be. So storyline wise he was recruited, but it was before the point in the story were the game starts.

Ah ok, makes sense. Thx.

[Tiamatha]

Barghast, on 16 June 2011 - 03:41 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 16 June 2011 - 02:22 PM, said:

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 01:50 PM, said:

@Tiam - are you saying you are trumpet?

i mean i have been hinting at that all game, and i guess i should just reveal and say yes im trumpet (i haven't enjoyed seeing my team knocked off). unfortunately, im not sure how many of my team members there are left, so im at a loss at that. and yes fener, i still, and always, have agreed amnion need to go. i just don't want to keep lynching my own team mates and then have umpc or umc swoop in to win the game. but yeah, im sure this reveal doesn't really do much for anyone since i could be lying, but currently, if you can believe me, i am just a trumpet

At this point I am not surprised by this announcement either. Whether it's actually true is up to debate -

Tiamatha, on 16 June 2011 - 03:19 PM, said:

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

you know guys i have had tiam pegged as town and defended him a few times yet that post admitting he is trumpet doesn't sit right with me at all, i have thought that the team with the crazy win conditions would be ump or umpc, where as amnion need majority and trumpet need to be rid of amnion, that is how is see it

you asked, i answered (fairly low risk considering that i have been probably pretty obvious since i am not that great at subtly). i am glad, btw, that you gave your opinion of VCs. hopefully, that will ring a bell with one of the groups so that either they peg you as one or the other faction.

This could be hinting that Tiam has recognised Alkend's statement here and has spotted him as a team mate, but

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:30 PM, said:

Kalse, on 16 June 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

Trying to get caught up, haven't been on since the server went down ...

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

you know guys i have had tiam pegged as town and defended him a few times yet that post admitting he is trumpet doesn't sit right with me at all, i have thought that the team with the crazy win conditions would be ump or umpc, where as amnion need majority and trumpet need to be rid of amnion, that is how is see it

There's no such thing as town in this game - people who keep referring to "town" and "scum" are really making me suspicious, because they seem to have a "good guys vs. bad guys" mind-set, that might come from being one of the cultists.

And Tiam came across heavily as Trumpet a few times, it's already been pointed out. His admission is not hard to believe.

well my win condition is to eliminate amnion and my team wins. if he was trumpet then that would be his win condition too.

Tiam has been pushing hard to look away from the cult. Granted this was before he admitted outright to being trumpet, but he had already been hinting at it for a while. Alkend I gather you are also admitting to being trumpet and I gather you don't understand why he would want to do anything other than attack cult if he was on your team?

as i mentioned earlier when confronted with this, yes obviously i want to see amnion gone. im just really worried about two things: 1) if umcp and umc have ulterior motives, they could secretly eliminate all trumpets while also killing off amnion 2) if we only focus on amnion, we may have more trouble finding them as the ulterior motives of umcp and umc could be mistaken as cult and muddy the waters.

mainly, i want to make sure that i cover all my bases just in case i am in this for the long haul (if there is only one amnion left, it is a needle in a haystack with a lot of suspicious looking players; i'm trying to develop a way to differentiate weird as ulterior human motive and amnion deflection/inciting)

i figure that someone's VC is probably to eliminate trumpet, hell that may be the amnion's sole objective since they are chasing the trumpet through human space. on the other side, we have the war between Dragon and umcp rebels, and i can't figure out which one of these factions is protecting and which one is against the trumpet.

So yeah, if we get all the amnion, i win. but only if i and my teammates make it through this clusterfuck

[Barghast]

Tiamatha, on 16 June 2011 - 04:03 PM, said:

Barghast, on 16 June 2011 - 03:41 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 16 June 2011 - 02:22 PM, said:

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 01:50 PM, said:

@Tiam - are you saying you are trumpet?

i mean i have been hinting at that all game, and i guess i should just reveal and say yes im trumpet (i haven't enjoyed seeing my team knocked off). unfortunately, im not sure how many of my team members there are left, so im at a loss at that. and yes fener, i still, and always, have agreed amnion need to go. i just don't want to keep lynching my own team mates and then have umpc or umc swoop in to win the game. but yeah, im sure this reveal doesn't really do much for anyone since i could be lying, but currently, if you can believe me, i am just a trumpet

At this point I am not surprised by this announcement either. Whether it's actually true is up to debate -

Tiamatha, on 16 June 2011 - 03:19 PM, said:

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

you know guys i have had tiam pegged as town and defended him a few times yet that post admitting he is trumpet doesn't sit right with me at all, i have thought that the team with the crazy win conditions would be ump or umpc, where as amnion need majority and trumpet need to be rid of amnion, that is how is see it

you asked, i answered (fairly low risk considering that i have been probably pretty obvious since i am not that great at subtly). i am glad, btw, that you gave your opinion of VCs. hopefully, that will ring a bell with one of the groups so that either they peg you as one or the other faction.

This could be hinting that Tiam has recognised Alkend's statement here and has spotted him as a team mate, but

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:30 PM, said:

Kalse, on 16 June 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

Trying to get caught up, haven't been on since the server went down ...

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

you know guys i have had tiam pegged as town and defended him a few times yet that post admitting he is trumpet doesn't sit right with me at all, i have thought that the team with the crazy win conditions would be ump or umpc, where as amnion need majority and trumpet need to be rid of amnion, that is how is see it

There's no such thing as town in this game - people who keep referring to "town" and "scum" are really making me suspicious, because they seem to have a "good guys vs. bad guys" mind-set, that might come from being one of the cultists.

And Tiam came across heavily as Trumpet a few times, it's already been pointed out. His admission is not hard to believe.

well my win condition is to eliminate amnion and my team wins. if he was trumpet then that would be his win condition too.

Tiam has been pushing hard to look away from the cult. Granted this was before he admitted outright to being trumpet, but he had already been hinting at it for a while. Alkend I gather you are also admitting to being trumpet and I gather you don't understand why he would want to do anything other than attack cult if he was on your team?

as i mentioned earlier when confronted with this, yes obviously i want to see amnion gone. im just really worried about two things: 1) if umcp and umc have ulterior motives, they could secretly eliminate all trumpets while also killing off amnion 2) if we only focus on amnion, we may have more trouble finding them as the ulterior motives of umcp and umc could be mistaken as cult and muddy the waters.

mainly, i want to make sure that i cover all my bases just in case i am in this for the long haul (if there is only one amnion left, it is a needle in a haystack with a lot of suspicious looking players; i'm trying to develop a way to differentiate weird as ulterior human motive and amnion deflection/inciting)

i figure that someone's VC is probably to eliminate trumpet, hell that may be the amnion's sole objective since they are chasing the trumpet through human space. on the other side, we have the war between Dragon and umcp rebels, and i can't figure out which one of these factions is protecting and which one is against the trumpet.

So yeah, if we get all the amnion, i win. but only if i and my teammates make it through this clusterfuck

I can kind of see your logic, but I don't really agreet to it - your first primary goal is to fulfill your VC. Trying to nerf the other factions is only relevant when they affect your VC, suddenly switching tack for a contingency doesn't really help you. If the Amnion are hard to find then you hope to take out power players from the factions along the way. Hell the best way to do so is to accuse them of being cult...

[Tiamatha]

Liosan, on 16 June 2011 - 04:02 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 16 June 2011 - 03:55 PM, said:

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:30 PM, said:

Kalse, on 16 June 2011 - 03:27 PM, said:

Trying to get caught up, haven't been on since the server went down ...

Alkend, on 16 June 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

you know guys i have had tiam pegged as town and defended him a few times yet that post admitting he is trumpet doesn't sit right with me at all, i have thought that the team with the crazy win conditions would be ump or umpc, where as amnion need majority and trumpet need to be rid of amnion, that is how is see it

There's no such thing as town in this game - people who keep referring to "town" and "scum" are really making me suspicious, because they seem to have a "good guys vs. bad guys" mind-set, that might come from being one of the cultists.

And Tiam came across heavily as Trumpet a few times, it's already been pointed out. His admission is not hard to believe.

well my win condition is to eliminate amnion and my team wins. if he was trumpet then that would be his win condition too.

considering that i have been deliberately vague about my own VCs, i can confirm that this is exactly my VC and the only one im given. now the question is, can we trust either of us considering the option of recruitment to amnion. we always need to be aware while the recruiter is out there than despite good intentions in earlier days, we can be flipped. just want to remind everyone so that none of us lapse into complacency

In addition to being wary about members of your own faction being recruited, we also need to remember that now that two people have independently revealed their VC's it would be pretty easy for someone else to fake reveal as Trumpet. In fact, tiam, this could even apply to you as you're basically just confirming what Alkend said... This is a problem inherent in faction games where you have differing information by faction, ie VCs, where in an M&P game there is very little actual cover that you can use to fake reveal.

fair enough, but look at it this way: if alkend is trumpet and if i am trumpet, alkend has revealed very specific information that can only be confirmed by other trumpets. if i am not a trumpet, alkend's reveal may mean nothing since no trumpet has vocalized a confirmation or denial. if alkend is not trumpet, but i am, then alkend may have guessed his way into the fold. but with recruiting in play, this really does become a WIFOM argument, as you and others have complained

so back to my fener question, which is ironically the same demand you are making of me: how do we go about identifying who's who? i mean, we can just play this game with the pretense that whoever is the most crafty and eloquent player will win by default of their convincing arguments. seem's lame, but maybe that is all we can do

what i want is two fold: figure out first of all what everyone has been pushing for in terms of action (find cult, figure out who's who, announce VCs) and also figure out if there are any arguable connections between those who are dead/known entities and the players who are still here. but we are already doing this, but in a very scattered non-systematic way, which breeds confusion and clusterfucking like what happened yesterday to Serc.

i am just overwhelmed by the information, as are you all, and am trying to get some consensus to approaching this less like chickens pecking an injured mate and more like a discussion of salient points

that's the main of it.

[Tiamatha]

Barghast, on 16 June 2011 - 04:12 PM, said:

I can kind of see your logic, but I don't really agreet to it - your first primary goal is to fulfill your VC. Trying to nerf the other factions is only relevant when they affect your VC, suddenly switching tack for a contingency doesn't really help you. If the Amnion are hard to find then you hope to take out power players from the factions along the way. Hell the best way to do so is to accuse them of being cult...

which, btw is what I've been trying to do if you look at my earlier posts. i want to take out the leaders since they seem to be the potentially easily identified role. but as, i believe, fener pointed out, going after lower posters isn't working that well, hence this new tact of trying to gain consensus and develop a better way of identifying someone, anyone!