[Sinisdar Toste]

So i'm rereading house of chains, and it's unbelievable the amount of foreshadowing for the Crippled God SE chucked in.

lots with karsa. LOTS. particularly, when he's in silver lake and knocks a statuette of fener to the ground and crushes it.

then SE hit me with a big one. it's right after kalam buys his knew long knives and hears about the house of chains.

"You damned fool, Cotillion. You were there at the last Chaining, weren't you? You should have stuck a knife in the bastard right there and then.

areyoufuckingserious.jpg

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

The ridiculous amount of foreshadowing is one of my favourite things about re-reading (currently on DHG); it really does feel like you're reading an entirely different novel, and it's heartbreaking in parts. See Felisin's comments when she finds herself in the slave camp:

Stay alive, Felisin, and live well if you can. One day you'll find yourself face to face with your sister, and an ocean of blood pouring from Tavore's veins won't be enough, though all they hold will suffice. [...] One day, face to face, sister.

Given Tavore's ordeal over the series, motivated in part by the loss of her sister... it's amazing how much is packed into that one line. Can't wait to see what nuggets the rest of the series holds, and I challenge anyone who thinks the series gets so bogged down in irrelevant subplots that Erikson loses sight of the big picture to give it another read-through.

EDIT BECAUSE I DO NOT WANT TO MAKE A POST EVERY TIME I FIND SOMETHING NEW THAT MAKES ME BLINK:
I'll never return to the List of the Fallen, because I see now that the unnamed soldier is a gift. The named soldier - dead, melted wax - demands a response among the living... a response no one can make. [...] Name none of the fallen, for they stood in our place, and stand there still in each moment of our lives. Let my death hold no glory, and let me die forgotten and unknown. Let it not be said that I was one among the dead to accuse the living.

Good lord.

You were never forsaken, Heboric, no matter what the priests may have believed when they did what they did. You were simply being prepared.

I did wonder when Fener's involvement with the "good guys" started, and how long their plan had been in motion. This is great.

This post has been edited by POOPOO MCBUMFACE: 03 June 2011 - 10:33 PM

[Ilona]

One that I only picked up on my recent second re-read of DG, is how the Tavore/Felisin clash was foretold in that Whirlwind prophecy that Duiker and Sormo E'nath witness at the beginning of the book. Or that's how I took it at least...

"Two fountains of raging blood! Face to face. The blood is the same, the two are the same and salty waves shall wash the shores of Raraku. The Holy Desert remembers its past!"

This post has been edited by Ilona: 31 May 2011 - 11:13 AM

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

Okay, having re-read Memories of Ice... between the fact that, when Itkovian cuts off Rath'Fener's hands and the Crippled God attempts to take them, the book plainly tells us that he's not a bad guy, and the compassion-themed resolution for the Pannion Seer regarding him and his sister finding a home after being torn from their realm, I'm wondering why the Crippled God's "change of heart" took by surprise anyone who'd read the series up to that point more than once. Brilliant.

[Capetown]

As I read it, the foreign god that tried to take Rath'Feners hands was not the Crippled God though.

[mayhem]

Capetown, on 21 June 2011 - 11:51 AM, said:

As I read it, the foreign god that tried to take Rath'Feners hands was not the Crippled God though.

Writhing, alien script swarmed his flesh as the unknown claimant made its mark, claimed possession of the man's mortal soul. Words that darkened like burns.


Suddenly, beyond the pain, a mutual awareness - an alien presence. Immense power. Not malign, yet profoundly… different. From that presence: storm-tossed confusion, anguish. Seeking to make of the unexpected gift of a mortal's two hands… something of beauty. Yet that man's flesh could not contain that gift.


Definitely sounds like the Crippled God to me. Keywords being Alien, immense power, and flesh not able to contain a gift.

[Mason of Death]

I'm not so sure about that either, actually, on the basis that at this point in the story the CG is all about sharing his pain out, and when Iktovian tries to take it, the god recoils and pulls away. He was also trying to make Rath'Fener 'a thing of beauty'. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
My personal favorite is in MOI, when Ganoes is thinking how tolerance would be the key to the whole thing (with the CG). My quote fu is weak, and I'm at work, so I don't have the exact quote right now. If someone else does, they will get rep.

This post has been edited by Mason of Death: 21 June 2011 - 01:31 PM

[Salt-Man Z]

But can the Crippled God really be called an "alien" presence, having been shattered on Wu for how many tens of thousands of years? I never got the sense it was him.

[MTS]

Mason of Death, on 21 June 2011 - 01:30 PM, said:

I'm not so sure about that either, actually, on the basis that at this point in the story the CG is all about sharing his pain out, and when Iktovian tries to take it, the god recoils and pulls away. He was also trying to make Rath'Fener 'a thing of beauty'. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
My personal favorite is in MOI, when Ganoes is thinking how tolerance would be the key to the whole thing (with the CG). My quote fu is weak, and I'm at work, so I don't have the exact quote right now. If someone else does, they will get rep.

This it?

Quote

Twist shrugged again. 'We did not slay the Tiste Edur. In Barghast eyes, that is our greatest crime. I wonder, however, if the Elder Spirits -now gods - see it in similar light.'
'They've had a long time to think,' Paran murmured. 'Sometimes, that's all that's needed. The heart of wisdom is tolerance. I think.'
'If so, Captain, then you must be proud.'
'Proud?'
The achievant slowly turned away as soft calls announced the troop was ready. 'I now return to Dujek Onearm.' He paused, then added, 'The Malazan Empire is a wise empire. I think that rare, and precious. And so I wish it - and you - well.'
Paran watched Twist stride away.
It was time to go.
Tolerant. Maybe. Keep that word in mind, Ganoes - there's a whisper that it will prove the fulcrum in what's to come...

This post has been edited by MTS: 21 June 2011 - 01:49 PM

[Abyss]

This thread just re-proves so much of what i love about this series.

[Ilona]

Salt-Man Z, on 21 June 2011 - 01:32 PM, said:

But can the Crippled God really be called an "alien" presence, having been shattered on Wu for how many tens of thousands of years?

Having been shattered on Wu for tens of thousands of years still hasn't made him "fit in", so to say. And I don't think he ever could fit in while he's chained, broken and miserable.

[Ceda Cicero]

Ilona, on 21 June 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

Salt-Man Z, on 21 June 2011 - 01:32 PM, said:

But can the Crippled God really be called an "alien" presence, having been shattered on Wu for how many tens of thousands of years?

Having been shattered on Wu for tens of thousands of years still hasn't made him "fit in", so to say. And I don't think he ever could fit in while he's chained, broken and miserable.

This, plus the fact that whether or not he can be called an alien presence, he is consistently by SE in places where it's very clearly a descriptor that applies to him. Whenever I see SE or ICE using the word "alien," my hackles go up for either Storm Riders or Crippled God/Jade Giant related stuffz.

[Shansteeth]

Ceda Cicero, on 21 June 2011 - 10:39 PM, said:

Ilona, on 21 June 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

Salt-Man Z, on 21 June 2011 - 01:32 PM, said:

But can the Crippled God really be called an "alien" presence, having been shattered on Wu for how many tens of thousands of years?

Having been shattered on Wu for tens of thousands of years still hasn't made him "fit in", so to say. And I don't think he ever could fit in while he's chained, broken and miserable.

This, plus the fact that whether or not he can be called an alien presence, he is consistently by SE in places where it's very clearly a descriptor that applies to him. Whenever I see SE or ICE using the word "alien," my hackles go up for either Storm Riders or Crippled God/Jade Giant related stuffz.

I was'nt convinced, but now I am.



I suppose that if SE had put in a lot of "obvious" signs that Kaminsod wasn't... EVIL...but tortured, and lashing out like a child, it would have made his apparent, unexpected turn into the "good" guy completely obvious.



Waht convinced me other than the above arguments is this...



the TCG is not part of a pantheon The sheer amount of followers in the jade giants convinces me of that. He was benevolent, kind, loved his people, but was likely more or less benign(I see him sort of like the Christian God who created his people out of love and gave them paradise and likely was not super active afterwards)



I see him pulled down one random day onto Wu, lost, broken, tortured, chained. He is lashing out in all of the books untill the last one, however a scene like this comes along, and perhaps sort of demonstrates his true nature. He is trying to make something beautiful but clearly the denizens of this world are not his, but it was unexpected and all sort of happens in an instant,. which is why he would likely do what his instincts are, which is to be a good guy Then Itko tries to do his thing, and actually show compassion. This would be the first time, in those 10's of thousands of years, that anyone of Wu has tried to do this. This action would snap TCG back into "reality" if you will. He probably did not even understand what was happening, but just assummed if it was someone of this world doing it, it would not be to help him.



yes, I am convinced.

[Mason of Death]

This it?

Quote

Twist shrugged again. 'We did not slay the Tiste Edur. In Barghast eyes, that is our greatest crime. I wonder, however, if the Elder Spirits -now gods - see it in similar light.'
'They've had a long time to think,' Paran murmured. 'Sometimes, that's all that's needed. The heart of wisdom is tolerance. I think.'
'If so, Captain, then you must be proud.'
'Proud?'
The achievant slowly turned away as soft calls announced the troop was ready. 'I now return to Dujek Onearm.' He paused, then added, 'The Malazan Empire is a wise empire. I think that rare, and precious. And so I wish it - and you - well.'
Paran watched Twist stride away.
It was time to go.
Tolerant. Maybe. Keep that word in mind, Ganoes - there's a whisper that it will prove the fulcrum in what's to come...

Yes, that was it. As promised , you have been repped, though as I was doing it I noticed two others had already. Ah well. Congratulations on the rep goldmine.

[Supernova]

I am rereading Deadhouse Gates and Nil says "The flesh of an Ascendant holds much power. They all hunger for a piece." when Duiker, Sormo, Nil and Nether go to deal with the Semk god. This is very similar to the Crippled Gods situation.

[Sinisdar Toste]

Supernova, on 29 June 2011 - 12:48 PM, said:

I am rereading Deadhouse Gates and Nil says "The flesh of an Ascendant holds much power. They all hunger for a piece." when Duiker, Sormo, Nil and Nether go to deal with the Semk god. This is very similar to the Crippled Gods situation.

wow, that is a very good catch. you could easily infer from that that everyone wants a piece of the 'sod, but only on a reread methinks

[LordofTheFallen]

mayhem, on 21 June 2011 - 12:30 PM, said:

Capetown, on 21 June 2011 - 11:51 AM, said:

As I read it, the foreign god that tried to take Rath'Feners hands was not the Crippled God though.

Writhing, alien script swarmed his flesh as the unknown claimant made its mark, claimed possession of the man's mortal soul. Words that darkened like burns.


Suddenly, beyond the pain, a mutual awareness - an alien presence. Immense power. Not malign, yet profoundly… different. From that presence: storm-tossed confusion, anguish. Seeking to make of the unexpected gift of a mortal's two hands… something of beauty. Yet that man's flesh could not contain that gift.


Definitely sounds like the Crippled God to me. Keywords being Alien, immense power, and flesh not able to contain a gift.

It wasn't him. Most likely it was some other god from the Crippled Gods realm. It said in the book that with Fener torn from his realm, the priest's soul would be recieved by whatever demon/god/entity happened to be in the area.

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

House of Chains, Bantam paperback p 692:

Quote

"Thus saving us the bloody recourse of finding a Forkrul Assail to adjudicate, and believe me, such adjudication is invariably bloody. Rarely indeed is anyone satisfied. Rarer still that anyone is left alive. Is there justice in such a thing, I ask you? Oh yes, perhaps the purest justice of all. On any given day, the aggrieved and the aggriever could stand in each other's clothes. Never a question of right and wrong, in truth, simply one of deciding who is least wrong."

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

Midnight Tides, Bantam p60+ (Feather Witch's reading):

Quote

"And so the Errant comes once more, and the Ice Hold rises, with its attendant servants who journey through the realms to war against time [...] And upon the Throne of Ice sits Death, cowled and frost-rimmed, stealer of caring, to shatter the anxious shackles of mortal life. It is a gift, but a cold one.

p464:

Quote

'The god is fallen. He crouches now, seeding devastation. Rise and fall, rise and fall, and with each renewal the guiding spirit is less, weaker, more tightly chained to a vision bereft of hope.'
'Why does this god do this to us?'
'Because he knows naught but pain, and yearns only to share it, to visit it upon all that lives, all that exists.'
'Why have you shown me this?'
'I make you witness, Brys Beddict, to the symbol of your demise.'
'Why?'
The figure was silent for a moment, then said, 'I advised you not to look for hope from your leaders, for they shall feed you naught but lies. Yet hope exists. Seek for it, Brys Beddict, in the one who stands at your side, from the stranger upon the other side of the street. Be brave enough to endeavour to cross that street. Look neither skyward nor upon the ground. Hope persists, and its voice is compassion, and honest doubt.'

good lord why did I not see this coming I feel dumb

This post has been edited by POOPOO MCBUMFACE: 27 July 2011 - 05:59 PM

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

yeeeeah it's a triple post

Bonehunters, Bantam Press paperback p177:

Quote

Paran refilled their glasses. 'The pantheon is splitting asunder. The Crippled God is finding allies.'
'Why?'
'What? Well... I don't really know. Compassion?'
'And is that something the Crippled God has earned?'
'I don't know that, either.'
'Months of study?' Her brows rose.
He laughed, a response that greatly relieved her.
'You are likely correct,' she said, 'we are not enemies.'
'By "we" I take it you include Shadowthrone and Cotillion.'
'As much as is possible, which isn't as much as I would like. None can fathom Shadowthrone's mind. Not even Cotillion, I suspect. Certainly not me. But he has shown... restraint.'
'Yes, he has. Quite surprising, if you think about it.'
'For Shadowthrone, the pondering of the field of battle has consumed years, maybe decades.'