[Dolmen 2.0]

Tough to see Gardens of the moon as any prooduction really. Memories of Ice was the first book I read and in my opinion the best entry book in the series because it goes from interesting to HOLY FRIGGEN COW in like 3 seconds. I agree that an animation would do the series alot of justice but fear a cloud atlas affect on an animated Gardens of the Moon, where tons of various storylines feel irrelevant because you don't really see the overarching connection.

[Silencer]

Dolmen+, on 20 January 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

Tough to see Gardens of the moon as any prooduction really. Memories of Ice was the first book I read and in my opinion the best entry book in the series because it goes from interesting to HOLY FRIGGEN COW in like 3 seconds. I agree that an animation would do the series alot of justice but fear a cloud atlas affect on an animated Gardens of the Moon, where tons of various storylines feel irrelevant because you don't really see the overarching connection.

Well, if I were to choose, I'd rather it was a series than a movie, which gives you a lot more room to manoeuvre, storytelling-wise. I think if they can pull off something like Baccano! or Durarara!! the Gardens isn't that far out - especially if you make it highly apparent that it's a WORLD, with sequels to follow...

Iunno. The books themselves seem to have a high rate of turning viewers away; there's certainly no guarantee that a Malaz adaptation of any kind would be a commercial success. But if we're talking mediums that would do it justice, anime is the way to go, if you ask me.

Sorta like that pic I've got lying around of "Anime Harry Potter" - assuming they didn't actually do an outright adaptation but rather an adapted take on the series so a studio could have fun with it, I can totally see it being the best thing in the universe. If you serialized it, imagine the way you could establish a broader cast of characters, go more into details of the world, and actually do better character development! It'd be better than the movies by a mile and probably better than the books. XD


That being said, it's a hit-or-miss thing. Being an anime doesn't exactly guarantee quality or anything (*cough* *glares at SAO*) and a studio could just as easily stuff such a thing (that is; either a Malazan or a HP adaptation, btw) up so badly that it kills the audience a little inside. Still a higher chance of being good (for a Malaz adaptation) than any other medium, though.

[Givernewt]

I'm reminded of the anime type episodes released with The Matrix series of movies, a few done entirely as CGI and some in a more classic animation style. They were all very interesting and entertaining to watch, without detracting from the trilogy of live action movies at all.

Obviously some of them were better than others, that is for you to decide, but I could easily imagine Erikson or Esselmont or some combination of the two, throwing out another "companion" work to the series, similar in approach to Night of Knives or Return of the Crimson Guard. Suppose instead of as a book , it's done as a single animated feature, or even better, as a limited run series.

Free range at this point to introduce entirely new characters, explore characters that played small parts in the fallen series, and of course tie it all together with some sort of crossover with a main character or two, extending or further exploring lost bits of their stories.

People may get their first introduction to the Malazan empire by way of youtube, cable, satellite, animation sites, all opening further interest to the already existing ( and growing ! ) series of books written already.

Just for Burn's sake do not venture into "Young Fiddler" territory, or "High School Assassins" featuring Kalam et al.

[LinearPhilosopher]

anime would wreck it. Do not want.

[Silencer]

BalrogLord, on 22 January 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

anime would wreck it. Do not want.

Provide reasoning, not just unsubstantiated negativity.

[Illuyankas]

"Am I kawaii uguu~," said Rake-chan.

[Silencer]

Illuyankas, on 22 January 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

"Am I kawaii uguu~," said Rake-chan.

Oh, how very droll. XD

[Silencer]

I want nothing more right now than to go on TVTropes.org and spoiler myself to High Heaven with Shin Sekai Yori details. It's...it's just...zomg, this show is dragonfucknuts! It makes my head spin! And looks like we're about to have another timeskip, woo! >.<

<3 Shin Sekai Yori. Oh so much...and how the hell is this going to resolve in the next 9 eps? O.o

[QuickTidal]

Silencer, on 23 January 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

I want nothing more right now than to go on TVTropes.org and spoiler myself to High Heaven with Shin Sekai Yori details. It's...it's just...zomg, this show is dragonfucknuts! It makes my head spin! And looks like we're about to have another timeskip, woo! >.<

<3 Shin Sekai Yori. Oh so much...and how the hell is this going to resolve in the next 9 eps? O.o

I've been holding off so I could have more than a few eps to watch in a row...but it's tough to do....another timeskip you say?! Oh awesome. that's the best part of the show.

I'vew been holding off on BLAST OF TEMPEST as well...soon my precious, soon...

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 23 January 2013 - 11:58 AM

[LinearPhilosopher]

Silencer, on 22 January 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

BalrogLord, on 22 January 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

anime would wreck it. Do not want.

Provide reasoning, not just unsubstantiated negativity.

My imagination>anime. That and MBOFT is a huge series and there simply soo much content you would have to include if you wanted to do it any amount of justice. That would require more then a 24 episode season, which is what most series get.

@ QT, oh man this latest episode of Blast of tempest was unreal.

This post has been edited by BalrogLord: 23 January 2013 - 02:51 PM

[QuickTidal]

BalrogLord, on 23 January 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

@ QT, oh man this latest episode of Blast of tempest was unreal.

I don't know how they can beat nearly 3 eps of posturing and brilliant dialogue! That part of the arc was so excellent...and could never have been accomplished on live action TV.

I'm probably going to do up the most recent eps of SHIN SEKAI and BLAST tonight as I've got the place to myself with the Mrs. out with her sister.

[QuickTidal]

For those who read it: Anime Wednesday is back!

http://icebergink.bl...nuary-2013.html

[Silencer]

BalrogLord, on 23 January 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Silencer, on 22 January 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

BalrogLord, on 22 January 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

anime would wreck it. Do not want.

Provide reasoning, not just unsubstantiated negativity.

My imagination>anime. That and MBOFT is a huge series and there simply soo much content you would have to include if you wanted to do it any amount of justice. That would require more then a 24 episode season, which is what most series get.

@ QT, oh man this latest episode of Blast of tempest was unreal.

My imagination > everything! That's hardly a good reason. As for the size, I would hardly expect it to run a standard 24 eps; maybe, that would be half a book or something. But I would either expect it to go all "long-runner" on us, or more likely to have several seasons of selective adaptation. Or hell, go with the world, but do some different stories. That'd work too. *shrug* I just don't think "my imagination is better" is much of a decent argument. That holds for 90% of stories and mediums...

QuickTidal, on 23 January 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

For those who read it: Anime Wednesday is back!

http://icebergink.bl...nuary-2013.html

Excellent! And on my one of my favourite shows, too. SSY is hard to gush about without either sounding insane, going incoherent, or spoiling a lot, so you did well! >.< It's just so brain-twisty.

[LinearPhilosopher]

Silencer, on 23 January 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

BalrogLord, on 23 January 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Silencer, on 22 January 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

BalrogLord, on 22 January 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

anime would wreck it. Do not want.

Provide reasoning, not just unsubstantiated negativity.

My imagination>anime. That and MBOFT is a huge series and there simply soo much content you would have to include if you wanted to do it any amount of justice. That would require more then a 24 episode season, which is what most series get.

@ QT, oh man this latest episode of Blast of tempest was unreal.

My imagination > everything! That's hardly a good reason. As for the size, I would hardly expect it to run a standard 24 eps; maybe, that would be half a book or something. But I would either expect it to go all "long-runner" on us, or more likely to have several seasons of selective adaptation. Or hell, go with the world, but do some different stories. That'd work too. *shrug* I just don't think "my imagination is better" is much of a decent argument. That holds for 90% of stories and mediums...

Yes it is a valid argument. You asked me why i would be displeased at the creation of an animated work . I have given you it. The aesthetic pleasure i gain from being able to interpret the pages via my imagination which has no limits (in a spinozist way of interpretation) would eclipse any feeling i got from experiencing malazan in an animated medium. This will likely lead to me feeling jaded about the whole affair. Look at ICE, even within the written medium the main critique of ICE can be summed up as "he can't do the malaz world justice like Erikson does". And this is two individuals who designed this world together and are using the same medium.

Likely any animated medium would fall short. The great part of malaz is the complexity inherent within the series. Such a complexity can be easily done in print medium without missing anything. There's a specific instance in MoI where whiskey jack and korlat have a conversation before the battle at coral. After the conversation ends they walk away, there is something to the extent of "had their conversation lasted longer they would have seen the quorls carrying the bridgeburners in coral". That right there was oponn at work plain and simple. You can't get that
in an animated medium, simply because of the way that was written.

And on the topic of complexity. Malazan deserve a 50 episode run. It would not get it though. And the fact malazan would have to be rendered into an animated medium, i can't help but feel it would be dumbed down.


And finally frequency of use of an argument does not invalidate the use of said argument, The validity of an argument lies in it's usage and context.

This post has been edited by BalrogLord: 24 January 2013 - 03:41 PM

[Silencer]

BalrogLord, on 24 January 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Silencer, on 23 January 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

BalrogLord, on 23 January 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Silencer, on 22 January 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

BalrogLord, on 22 January 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

anime would wreck it. Do not want.

Provide reasoning, not just unsubstantiated negativity.

My imagination>anime. That and MBOFT is a huge series and there simply soo much content you would have to include if you wanted to do it any amount of justice. That would require more then a 24 episode season, which is what most series get.

@ QT, oh man this latest episode of Blast of tempest was unreal.

My imagination > everything! That's hardly a good reason. As for the size, I would hardly expect it to run a standard 24 eps; maybe, that would be half a book or something. But I would either expect it to go all "long-runner" on us, or more likely to have several seasons of selective adaptation. Or hell, go with the world, but do some different stories. That'd work too. *shrug* I just don't think "my imagination is better" is much of a decent argument. That holds for 90% of stories and mediums...

Yes it is a valid argument. You asked me why i would be displeased at the creation of an animated work . I have given you it. The aesthetic pleasure i gain from being able to interpret the pages via my imagination which has no limits (in a spinozist way of interpretation) would eclipse any feeling i got from experiencing malazan in an animated medium. This will likely lead to me feeling jaded about the whole affair. Look at ICE, even within the written medium the main critique of ICE can be summed up as "he can't do the malaz world justice like Erikson does". And this is two individuals who designed this world together and are using the same medium.

Likely any animated medium would fall short. The great part of malaz is the complexity inherent within the series. Such a complexity can be easily done in print medium without missing anything. There's a specific instance in MoI where whiskey jack and korlat have a conversation before the battle at coral. After the conversation ends they walk away, there is something to the extent of "had their conversation lasted longer they would have seen the quorls carrying the bridgeburners in coral". That right there was oponn at work plain and simple. You can't get that
in an animated medium, simply because of the way that was written.

And on the topic of complexity. Malazan deserve a 50 episode run. It would not get it though. And the fact malazan would have to be rendered into an animated medium, i can't help but feel it would be dumbed down.


And finally frequency of use of an argument does not invalidate the use of said argument, The validity of an argument lies in it's usage and context.

...I didn't question its validity, just its quality. And that's a fairly subjective thing. And honestly, I think ICE's main problem is his calibre as an author and way he's ended up coming at things. *shrug*

I can think of a few ways to illustrate the scene you reference that would carry the message perfectly, though. My point wasn't that it would be easy, though, just easier than doing justice via live action. As I implied through my references to SAO, it would of course have to be done WELL to be good - but that is the caveat of all adaptations and indeed all creations.



To each their own, though. I'm not such a Malaz purist that I think it can't be done well if adapted, and I have a clear preference for the medium; I don't think we'll get anywhere debating it, lol. Oh, and I wasn't arguing the frequency of the argument; I was just pointing out that a person's own imagination is in fact better than the reality for almost all entertainment - my point was that we still like those stories in whatever medium despite this fact. XD




Slightly more on topic: Bakemonogatari is...interesting. Weird, but interesting. Just finished episode 2, so will see how it goes. XD

ETA: Episode three proves that Bakemonogatari breaks my brain. Man that show has some abstract style! O.o (It probably doesn't help reading subtitles for dialogue over the there-for-a-second-gone-the-next weird little cards with even more abstract but somewhat plot-or-dialogue-relevant sentences and pictures on them...)

Still, it's...very interesting. XD

[Silencer]

OK, following on from Bakemonogatari as mentioned in my last post (and Nisemonogatari): what the fuck did I just watch?!

The surrealism of this series is mind-melting by itself, let alone the way ALL the characters are really, REALLY mental. I mean, there's plenty of shows out there which are a bit bonkers (Durarara!! comes to mind immediately) but so far I think this one takes the cake as the "weirdest" style I've yet seen - it was actually a bit like watching Evangelion but ONLY from the episode 17ish mark.

Note: this is not a complaint. It was awesome.

The deliberately fast text (that I'm *almost* interested enough in to go back and freezeframe in order to read) that runs rampant over the whole thing was delightful, as were the maddening interlaced scenes over the top of the dialogue (during which some VERY weird poses and suchlike were adopted by characters sometimes), and yeah.

Frankly, I'm never going to treat brushing my teeth the same way again. O.o

Oh, and the main character is a horrendous enigma who...I'm still not sure how exactly his brain works. Not to mention his eventual "girlfriend" is fucking terrifying.

Spoiler

And did anyone else think this show had more rampant pedo-/incest-/rape-"subtext" (OK, it was pretty explicit) portrayed in the strangest possible light than any other show in the known universe?

And if you read that spoiler without having seen the show you are now wondering what the FUCK is up with this show and why anyone would watch it. Well, it's just that batshit insane throughout that the (actually not *that* frequent) stuff mentioned therein kinda gets shunted sideways. But yeah.

[LinearPhilosopher]

@above. I've never seen bakamonogatari. I know enough about it to know it's filled with fanservice and i can't stand fanservice., that being said there is this one scene in nisemonogatari (NSFW warning)

Spoiler

that is found absolutely hilarious. I even sent it to my prof who teaches philosophy of sex and he loved it just as much. I asked him to show it in his philosophy of sex course and he told me he probably would as there's no nudity involved (you need approval from the admin to show pornography in a class)

Silencer, on 26 January 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

...I didn't question its validity, just its quality. And that's a fairly subjective thing. And honestly, I think ICE's main problem is his calibre as an author and way he's ended up coming at things. *shrug*

A valid argument by virtue of it being valid has quality. There's a connotation there, and being an existentialist, subjectivity doesn't scare me in the slightest. And ice despite his intimate familiarity with malaz still does not do it justice, that is according to the things i've read. I think he's ok, some of his books are better then others. Now you're telling me an animation studio who don't have experience doing anything remotely similar (malaz stands out even by western fantasy standards) can do a good job. Im sceptical. Not that it couldn't be done, but i view the probability of said thing occurring minimal at best.

I can think of a few ways to illustrate the scene you reference that would carry the message perfectly, though. My point wasn't that it would be easy, though, just easier than doing justice via live action. As I implied through my references to SAO, it would of course have to be done WELL to be good - but that is the caveat of all adaptations and indeed all creations.

And i simply don't think it's realistic to expect this to be well done. Considering how adaptations tend to be dumped down for audience with an attention span no longer then a 5 minute you tube video clip just further reinforces my point.

To each their own, though. I'm not such a Malaz purist that I think it can't be done well if adapted, and I have a clear preference for the medium; I don't think we'll get anywhere debating it, lol. Oh, and I wasn't arguing the frequency of the argument; I was just pointing out that a person's own imagination is in fact better than the reality for almost all entertainment - my point was that we still like those stories in whatever medium despite this fact. XD

I wouldn't call myself a purist, purist is such an awful word. Rather i view the probability of a quality adaption to be remote and thus not worth it. iirc the foreward to gotm includes an annectode by SE about how the Chain of Dogs was originally a movie script but it was too ambitious. Well ill disagree about mediums. Some mediums do things better then others. Action movies come to mind. Would i read a DIE HARD book? heck no. It'd be awful. Erotic litterature? I like my videos thank you very much. But when it comes to complex plots, the written word surpasses all.

also im lazy and i don';t feel like segregating each quote.

This post has been edited by BalrogLord: 31 January 2013 - 07:01 PM

[Silencer]

Hehe, that scene is literally PG-Rated sex, ain't it? XD

Funnily enough, the fanservice aspect of these series didn't bother me one bit. Considering 90% of the show is dialogue (and whacky, convoluted, insane dialogue at that) with odd camera cuts to keep your eye entertained, the fanservice is pretty easy to ignore - even if some of it is...er...squicky. But yeah, if you really can't stand fanservice this show does have some pretty gratuitous bits in it.

(I'll beg to differ about validity - unless you mean something different than what I mean, validity is only that the conclusion of the argument is entailed by its premises: therefore you can have a valid argument made up entirely of false premises, so the validity has nothing to do with the quality of the argument, just that it is logically valid. Again, though, I wasn't questioning its validity. As for the rest of it...meh. There are awesome adaptations, there are shit adaptations. The fact that 90% of them are in the "shit" category doesn't make for good odds, but who cares? I'd rather they try and take the chance of making something so awesome it becomes the new definition of "Malazan", than that nobody ever tries just because it seems unlikely to succeed - I'd be happy with an attempted movie adaptation too, I just personally think anime has a *higher chance* of getting it right.)

Nyah, I can't eve be bothered colouring my text or quoting you at all. So I win in the laziness stakes!

[LinearPhilosopher]

So i couldn't resist the temptation, i started watching shin sekai yori. up to ep 8. It's going to suck when i catch up. Also i found out this week in lecture that it was John Locke who coined the term "Ghost in the Shell". And speaking of more western influences in this week's psycho-pass episode the characters are talking about "do robots dream of electric sheep" and even comments on how it's different from blade runner. It also has this interesting passage about printed and electronic book, ill post it some time later

a:Why don't you buy paper book? E-Books lack character
B:that so
a:books are no something that you just read words in, they're also a tool to adjust your senses.
b:adjust?
a: when i'm not felling well, there are times that i can't take in what i read. When that happens i try to think about what could be hindering my reading. There are books that i can take in smoothly even when i'm not feeling well. I try to think why, it might be something like mental tuning. What's important when you tine is the feeling of the paper that you're touching with your fingers and the momentary stimulation your brain receives when you turn pages.
b: i feel kinda discouraged
a:hmm?
b: when i talk with you, i feel like i've been missing out opn something all my life.
a: you're reading too much into it
b:maybe.

Thoughts?

Silencer, on 01 February 2013 - 12:18 AM, said:

Hehe, that scene is literally PG-Rated sex, ain't it? XD

Funnily enough, the fanservice aspect of these series didn't bother me one bit. Considering 90% of the show is dialogue (and whacky, convoluted, insane dialogue at that) with odd camera cuts to keep your eye entertained, the fanservice is pretty easy to ignore - even if some of it is...er...squicky. But yeah, if you really can't stand fanservice this show does have some pretty gratuitous bits in it.

Yeah fanservice and i don't get along. The one heavy fanservice episode i watched HOTD i was focusing on the subs so i had something else to concentrate on. At the same time im currently enjoying panty and stocking which has no fanservice but a gratuity of sex jokes.^^

(I'll beg to differ about validity - unless you mean something different than what I mean, validity is only that the conclusion of the argument is entailed by its premises: therefore you can have a valid argument made up entirely of false premises, so the validity has nothing to do with the quality of the argument, just that it is logically valid. Again, though, I wasn't questioning its validity. As for the rest of it...meh. There are awesome adaptations, there are shit adaptations. The fact that 90% of them are in the "shit" category doesn't make for good odds, but who cares? I'd rather they try and take the chance of making something so awesome it becomes the new definition of "Malazan", than that nobody ever tries just because it seems unlikely to succeed - I'd be happy with an attempted movie adaptation too, I just personally think anime has a *higher chance* of getting it right.)

Nyah, I can't eve be bothered colouring my text or quoting you at all. So I win in the laziness stakes!

Ok so here you're making the distinction that validity has to do with the argument in of itself, while the quality deals with whether or not it can be mapped onto reality. I'll agree to this.

This post has been edited by BalrogLord: 02 February 2013 - 04:19 PM

[Silencer]

BalrogLord, on 02 February 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

So i couldn't resist the temptation, i started watching shin sekai yori. up to ep 8.

Haha, give in to the dark side, yessss!

And...

Quote

It's going to suck when i catch up.

Yes, yes it is.

Quote

Silencer, on 01 February 2013 - 12:18 AM, said:

Hehe, that scene is literally PG-Rated sex, ain't it? XD

Funnily enough, the fanservice aspect of these series didn't bother me one bit. Considering 90% of the show is dialogue (and whacky, convoluted, insane dialogue at that) with odd camera cuts to keep your eye entertained, the fanservice is pretty easy to ignore - even if some of it is...er...squicky. But yeah, if you really can't stand fanservice this show does have some pretty gratuitous bits in it.

Yeah fanservice and i don't get along. The one heavy fanservice episode i watched HOTD i was focusing on the subs so i had something else to concentrate on. At the same time im currently enjoying panty and stocking which has no fanservice but a gratuity of sex jokes.^^

(I'll beg to differ about validity - unless you mean something different than what I mean, validity is only that the conclusion of the argument is entailed by its premises: therefore you can have a valid argument made up entirely of false premises, so the validity has nothing to do with the quality of the argument, just that it is logically valid. Again, though, I wasn't questioning its validity. As for the rest of it...meh. There are awesome adaptations, there are shit adaptations. The fact that 90% of them are in the "shit" category doesn't make for good odds, but who cares? I'd rather they try and take the chance of making something so awesome it becomes the new definition of "Malazan", than that nobody ever tries just because it seems unlikely to succeed - I'd be happy with an attempted movie adaptation too, I just personally think anime has a *higher chance* of getting it right.)

Nyah, I can't eve be bothered colouring my text or quoting you at all. So I win in the laziness stakes!

Ok so here you're making the distinction that validity has to do with the argument in of itself, while the quality deals with whether or not it can be mapped onto reality. I'll agree to this.

Yup. Philosophy 101 and 105 left their marks. XD

And you might be OK with the Monogatari stuff - you do have to pay attention to the subtitles (assuming you do the cool thing and watch it subbed rather than dubbed ) quite a bit to catch all the awesomeness. It's not a "fanservice" series, it just has a certain amount of (quite weird) fanservice scenes strewn across it. If you think of Evangelion as a big "fuck you" to the Otaku culture, it comes across kinda like that. I mean, it's Studio SHAFT so the fanservice is entirely intentional, but it's not really the point of the show or even a large part of it. It's just...there. *shrug* Up to you, of course.