[The Hust Legion]

 D, on 04 June 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

This guy is really, really something special... (link is to a GIF image, SFW)

haha I've seen that but its not from shokugeki no somo is it?

[LinearPhilosopher]

that scene was something else. Anyways i starting watching all the seasonal shows a few weeks ago as i realised if i waited for everything, id have to watch like 60 episodes!!!!!!. So was watching at a steady rate of 1-3 eps per sitting, with a sitting happening every few days.

 The Hust Legion, on 04 June 2015 - 09:00 PM, said:

 D, on 04 June 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

This guy is really, really something special... (link is to a GIF image, SFW)

haha I've seen that but its not from shokugeki no somo is it?

Assasination classroom/ ansatsu kyoushitsu

So im enjoying owari no seraph. IDK why, im just draw to that purple girl with the deadpan humour and sarcasm. It does pull off its characters well without them seing like cliched carboard cutouts which is nice.

FSN UBW: So drek how about that reveal eh? at which point did you clue into archer identity. Also are you satisfied with the directions they took with his motivations? I know earlier you were complaining about his (less be honest) obvious lack of depth with his motivation.

Assasination: DAMMMIT I WANA MARATHON THE REST OF THIS SHOW ITS FINALLY GETTING EPIC!!!!

knight of sidonia: season 1 was decent, season 2.... Like if it wasnt for the stupid love triangle bullshit, this would be a good show. Because of the love triangle bullshit that fills up time and detract from the interesting stuff, it really bring this show down.


I still have yet to watch an episode of twintails or that dungeon harem thing with the cute title.

I decided to get back into fairy tail after giving up on it the better part of a year on it. I looked up a filler guide and started from the nearest non filler point. I watched all of 6 episodes before caught up. Thats right, Fairy tail was in filler mode for the better part of a year... On the one hand, im glad i missed the fillers, but on the other hand, fillers for the better part of a year????? WTF???

Also upon received a suggestion from a friend i decided tgo watch the rebooted hunter x hunter, 5episodes in and its quite charming i have to say. Really like the characters thus far.

This post has been edited by BalrogLord: 04 June 2015 - 11:58 PM

[EmperorMagus]

 BalrogLord, on 04 June 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

that scene was something else. Anyways i starting watching all the seasonal shows a few weeks ago as i realised if i waited for everything, id have to watch like 60 episodes!!!!!!. So was watching at a steady rate of 1-3 eps per sitting, with a sitting happening every few days.

 The Hust Legion, on 04 June 2015 - 09:00 PM, said:

 D, on 04 June 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

This guy is really, really something special... (link is to a GIF image, SFW)

haha I've seen that but its not from shokugeki no somo is it?

Assasination classroom/ ansatsu kyoushitsu

Also upon received a suggestion from a friend i decided tgo watch the rebooted hunter x hunter, 5episodes in and its quite charming i have to say. Really like the characters thus far.

Not to hype or anything.
But Hunter X Hunter was the single best anime I have ever watched. It's true that I didn't bother with a lot of the "classics" but anyway you want to look at it it's epic.
The first 24 episodes were the least interesting ones tbh. I'm still searching for anything even remotely as good as HxH.

[Silencer]

 EmperorMagus, on 05 June 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

 BalrogLord, on 04 June 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

that scene was something else. Anyways i starting watching all the seasonal shows a few weeks ago as i realised if i waited for everything, id have to watch like 60 episodes!!!!!!. So was watching at a steady rate of 1-3 eps per sitting, with a sitting happening every few days.

 The Hust Legion, on 04 June 2015 - 09:00 PM, said:

 D, on 04 June 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

This guy is really, really something special... (link is to a GIF image, SFW)

haha I've seen that but its not from shokugeki no somo is it?

Assasination classroom/ ansatsu kyoushitsu

Also upon received a suggestion from a friend i decided tgo watch the rebooted hunter x hunter, 5episodes in and its quite charming i have to say. Really like the characters thus far.

Not to hype or anything.
But Hunter X Hunter was the single best anime I have ever watched. It's true that I didn't bother with a lot of the "classics" but anyway you want to look at it it's epic.
The first 24 episodes were the least interesting ones tbh. I'm still searching for anything even remotely as good as HxH.

I feel like this might be another One Piece scenario (in the sense of me not caring for it compared to many who do).

Everything I've seen of HxH makes me think it's just another Shonen series with average animation and that ran for too long with little to go on. Compared to more compact series with characters who are less caricatured and tighter story arcs, I just don't see the appeal.

There's just so much out there that is less... Silly/trying to do the DBZ/Naruto/One Piece/Bleach thing.

[EmperorMagus]

 Silencer, on 05 June 2015 - 08:24 AM, said:

 EmperorMagus, on 05 June 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

 BalrogLord, on 04 June 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

that scene was something else. Anyways i starting watching all the seasonal shows a few weeks ago as i realised if i waited for everything, id have to watch like 60 episodes!!!!!!. So was watching at a steady rate of 1-3 eps per sitting, with a sitting happening every few days.

 The Hust Legion, on 04 June 2015 - 09:00 PM, said:

 D, on 04 June 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

This guy is really, really something special... (link is to a GIF image, SFW)

haha I've seen that but its not from shokugeki no somo is it?

Assasination classroom/ ansatsu kyoushitsu

Also upon received a suggestion from a friend i decided tgo watch the rebooted hunter x hunter, 5episodes in and its quite charming i have to say. Really like the characters thus far.

Not to hype or anything.
But Hunter X Hunter was the single best anime I have ever watched. It's true that I didn't bother with a lot of the "classics" but anyway you want to look at it it's epic.
The first 24 episodes were the least interesting ones tbh. I'm still searching for anything even remotely as good as HxH.

I feel like this might be another One Piece scenario (in the sense of me not caring for it compared to many who do).

Everything I've seen of HxH makes me think it's just another Shonen series with average animation and that ran for too long with little to go on. Compared to more compact series with characters who are less caricatured and tighter story arcs, I just don't see the appeal.

There's just so much out there that is less... Silly/trying to do the DBZ/Naruto/One Piece/Bleach thing.

I've not watched any of those series except for the first few episodes of One Piece. The excellent thing about this series is that nearly all the characters are interesting. I can admit that the main character (Gon) is somewhat annoying at times. But the supporting cast make up for it ten fold. Also, nearly every villain in the series has their story told and at the end, you don't even know whether you like the villains who eat children or the main cast...
Then there is Hisoka, who is extremely awesome.
I really like the music selection as well, I think the background music was very well chosen. The animation was also well done in my opinion, I really dislike the stupid animation some series use (Including FMA, sorry) but I couldn't really find a fault with this series' animation. Also, it's extremely funny at times. and I can't think of any part of it as filler.
I wanna watch the whole thing again now.

[Silencer]

By FMA do you mean Brotherhood? Because the HxH I've watched is just a less well drawn version of that style but with more of the art-break annoying stuff that FMA:B uses occasionally..., >.>

Confuses.

[D'rek]

 BalrogLord, on 04 June 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

So im enjoying owari no seraph. IDK why, im just draw to that purple girl with the deadpan humour and sarcasm. It does pull off its characters well without them seing like cliched carboard cutouts which is nice.

Purple girl (Shinoa) is indeed awesome. Not sure I'd agree with you on the rest of the characters, they seem pretty one-dimensional and overall stupid to me. But the bigger issues are that the whole thing is in a really inconsistant world, with pretty much zero world-building to explain any of it or keep the audience engaged.

First the vampires take over the world. Then it turns out they didn't. Then there's monsters in the streets for some reason. And everyone over 13 died, except not, or at least not anymore. Some folks run a pristine-looking school somehow, and we must assume they do other stuff around it but we never see any of that.

Main character is apparently their prophesized saviour, but it's never brought up a second time. So naturally they put him on guard duty for like a year, then send him to school (and it's not a military school, just tropey classrooms), then they turn around and promote him to an "elite" squad in the military with absolutely no actual combat training or understanding of how a military works, it would seem. Ooh, and two of his equally un-trained and oblivious friends get to come too! And they get given 3 out of the 5 strongest weapons in the world, instead of anyone who actually has any training.

Then their squad of 5 will go off on let's-walk-around missions where they talk about "staying in formation" while walking in a gaggle shape as if they've seen a couple military movies but have no idea what they're actually doing. Then they occasionally get in fights that are 80% standing still talking. Also half the fights are not even shown.

Oh, and it's been demonstrated that numerous characters know what the 'Seraph of the End' is, what the monsters are, what the situation in the rest of the world is, etc, but none of that is ever revealed to the audience and whenever they feel the need to hand-wave it away they just show the main characters being too arrogant/stupid to care about that potentially life-saving information.

I *was* enjoying OnS for the first handful of episodes when I thought they would actually fix that stuff, but then they never did and so the school episodes, Erenx10 character attitudes never became worth having sat through. Baaaaaaaaaaaad.

 BalrogLord, on 04 June 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

FSN UBW: So drek how about that reveal eh? at which point did you clue into archer identity. Also are you satisfied with the directions they took with his motivations? I know earlier you were complaining about his (less be honest) obvious lack of depth with his motivation.

at which point did you clue into archer identity - About 9 episodes ago or so, really near the beginning of the second half. Tohsaka pretty much says it out loud. I can't believe how much they felt they needed to blatantly hint at it before the 'reveal' - I'd be surprised if anyone didn't figure it out before the 'reveal'.

Also are you satisfied with the directions they took with his motivations? - No. If that was really his motivation, he had many, many opportunities to fulfill it before, why did he went until a not-opportune time? Why go through all that team-up crap?

I know earlier you were complaining about his (less be honest) obvious lack of depth with his motivation. - They have literally stopped the fighting so he can repeat in slightly different words what he wants to accomplish a dozen times, plus another three dozen or so times where they've paused so he can call his opponent (who is gradually starting to get better at fighting him) pathetic some more. It's hilarious to laugh at, but I suspect that isn't the deep drama the studio was expecting.

In addition, we once more have Shiro overcoming all obstacles because he believes in himself, and oh look we forgot to develop the antagonists let's make them rapey to cover it! Wooooo lowest-hanging-fruit anime tropes!

I am beginning to feel like one of the biggest problems with the Fate/ franchise is that the creator felt waaaay too much need to screw around with his own rules. He sets it up as these deathmatches with fairly clear rules, roles and a goal to be attained, and then he changes them dozens of times in every single work. I could accept it in Fate/Zero, because that felt like it was the sequel/prequel that deviates from the 'norm' of the first work, but Fate/original does it even more. You've got Servants that aren't really Servants, Masters that aren't really Masters, attacks that completely change character relationships 'because magic', magic system 'rules' that the characters constantly bypass/overcome, abilities that people conveniently forget about or for no particular reason can't use when they'd be helpful (command seals anyone?), and now even the grail itself is entirely pointless. It's all so entirely arbitrary and deus ex machina that the structure of the narrative sucks and there's very little to get engaged in the show about.

 BalrogLord, on 04 June 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

Assasination: DAMMMIT I WANA MARATHON THE REST OF THIS SHOW ITS FINALLY GETTING EPIC!!!!

ITS SOOOOO GOOOOOOOD

They really pull off the whole-classroom-of-characters aspect so well. Obviously Nagisa, Karma and the teachers are going to get the most overall focus, but I love how they switch around the main supporting cast episode-to-episode and everyone has their own specialties that come out in the spotlight.

 BalrogLord, on 04 June 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

I decided to get back into fairy tail after giving up on it the better part of a year on it. I looked up a filler guide and started from the nearest non filler point. I watched all of 6 episodes before caught up. Thats right, Fairy tail was in filler mode for the better part of a year... On the one hand, im glad i missed the fillers, but on the other hand, fillers for the better part of a year????? WTF???

Whoa, Fairy Tale ever had a plot? I thought it was intentionally all just little magic-frat-mercenaries mini-arcs...



re: Hunter X Hunter - didn't the person writing it stop, or something like that? So it will never have a big ending, just the ending of whatever the last arc was? (Unlike One Piece which is STILL going under the original writer)

[LinearPhilosopher]

 Silencer, on 05 June 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

By FMA do you mean Brotherhood? Because the HxH I've watched is just a less well drawn version of that style but with more of the art-break annoying stuff that FMA:B uses occasionally..., >.>

Confuses.

I should point out im watching the reboot

 D, on 05 June 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

 BalrogLord, on 04 June 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

So im enjoying owari no seraph. IDK why, im just draw to that purple girl with the deadpan humour and sarcasm. It does pull off its characters well without them seing like cliched carboard cutouts which is nice.

Purple girl (Shinoa) is indeed awesome. Not sure I'd agree with you on the rest of the characters, they seem pretty one-dimensional and overall stupid to me. But the bigger issues are that the whole thing is in a really inconsistant world, with pretty much zero world-building to explain any of it or keep the audience engaged.

First the vampires take over the world. Then it turns out they didn't. Then there's monsters in the streets for some reason. And everyone over 13 died, except not, or at least not anymore. Some folks run a pristine-looking school somehow, and we must assume they do other stuff around it but we never see any of that.

Main character is apparently their prophesized saviour, but it's never brought up a second time. So naturally they put him on guard duty for like a year, then send him to school (and it's not a military school, just tropey classrooms), then they turn around and promote him to an "elite" squad in the military with absolutely no actual combat training or understanding of how a military works, it would seem. Ooh, and two of his equally un-trained and oblivious friends get to come too! And they get given 3 out of the 5 strongest weapons in the world, instead of anyone who actually has any training.

Then their squad of 5 will go off on let's-walk-around missions where they talk about "staying in formation" while walking in a gaggle shape as if they've seen a couple military movies but have no idea what they're actually doing. Then they occasionally get in fights that are 80% standing still talking. Also half the fights are not even shown.

Oh, and it's been demonstrated that numerous characters know what the 'Seraph of the End' is, what the monsters are, what the situation in the rest of the world is, etc, but none of that is ever revealed to the audience and whenever they feel the need to hand-wave it away they just show the main characters being too arrogant/stupid to care about that potentially life-saving information.

I *was* enjoying OnS for the first handful of episodes when I thought they would actually fix that stuff, but then they never did and so the school episodes, Erenx10 character attitudes never became worth having sat through. Baaaaaaaaaaaad.

Characters aren't one dimensional, they have two or more , dual blade guy is am asshole but he also cares about his sister. Thats 2 whole dimensions so saying they're one dimensional is mathematically false:P. Kidding aside theres characters do have potential for growth and the possibility of being well executed characters. I mean we can have character archetypes without them being cardboard cutouts provided they are well executed. MC has some obvious people issues but hes slowly getting over them without being too hamhanded about it.

Yes we're not given complete information but that's not exactly deal breaking eh? When we learn about the 13+yr being dead through the narration, isn't it narrated through that vampire girl? Whos to say thats something that isn't a line fed to the kids to keep em from escaping. I could have sworn there was this series of fantasy book where part of the appeal was operating on incorect or incomplete knowledge. Can't remeber the name for the life of me but it had this pretty cool website... really struggling with my memory here, ill let you know when it comes back .

Agreed that his friend just passing the training is a bit rushed but im willing to concede that gripe. Also staying in formation just means staying within weapons reach of each other to cover each others backs and flanks. Again if your main gripe about a show is a lack of exposition, isn't that a good thing? Generally the opposite is a bad thing. I don't need every detail of this universe told me. Just use contigent acceptance(forget the specific hedeigerrian/husserlian term here) of what im watching.

Quote

 BalrogLord, on 04 June 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

FSN UBW: So drek how about that reveal eh? at which point did you clue into archer identity. Also are you satisfied with the directions they took with his motivations? I know earlier you were complaining about his (less be honest) obvious lack of depth with his motivation.

at which point did you clue into archer identity - About 9 episodes ago or so, really near the beginning of the second half. Tohsaka pretty much says it out loud. I can't believe how much they felt they needed to blatantly hint at it before the 'reveal' - I'd be surprised if anyone didn't figure it out before the 'reveal'.

Also are you satisfied with the directions they took with his motivations? - No. If that was really his motivation, he had many, many opportunities to fulfill it before, why did he went until a not-opportune time? Why go through all that team-up crap?

I know earlier you were complaining about his (less be honest) obvious lack of depth with his motivation. - They have literally stopped the fighting so he can repeat in slightly different words what he wants to accomplish a dozen times, plus another three dozen or so times where they've paused so he can call his opponent (who is gradually starting to get better at fighting him) pathetic some more. It's hilarious to laugh at, but I suspect that isn't the deep drama the studio was expecting.

In addition, we once more have Shiro overcoming all obstacles because he believes in himself, and oh look we forgot to develop the antagonists let's make them rapey to cover it! Wooooo lowest-hanging-fruit anime tropes!

I am beginning to feel like one of the biggest problems with the Fate/ franchise is that the creator felt waaaay too much need to screw around with his own rules. He sets it up as these deathmatches with fairly clear rules, roles and a goal to be attained, and then he changes them dozens of times in every single work. I could accept it in Fate/Zero, because that felt like it was the sequel/prequel that deviates from the 'norm' of the first work, but Fate/original does it even more. You've got Servants that aren't really Servants, Masters that aren't really Masters, attacks that completely change character relationships 'because magic', magic system 'rules' that the characters constantly bypass/overcome, abilities that people conveniently forget about or for no particular reason can't use when they'd be helpful (command seals anyone?), and now even the grail itself is entirely pointless. It's all so entirely arbitrary and deus ex machina that the structure of the narrative sucks and there's very little to get engaged in the show about.

ii) not sure what you're reffering to here, im talking about shirous I WANA BE A HERO!!!!!

Spoiler

iii)Yes, archer could have killed shirou several times over. Not disagreeing with you there, but im going to take a bit of a meta approach to this. I thought archer flashbacks showed just how stupid shirou is. His naive optimism is nothing but a cover for what becomes blind intransigence to the point where archer was broken. Thats not something i see often (reminds me of a quote though, its from that same fantasy series that i still can't put a name too) and it goes one further to show that the singled mindled protagonist is nothing but a fool and needs this ridiculous scenario in order to even triumph. Unfortunately, shirou is the protagonist in a show that revolves around him not dying which is the only flaw in the execution. Aside from that i think the show did the most it could given the constraints.

 BalrogLord, on 04 June 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

Assasination: DAMMMIT I WANA MARATHON THE REST OF THIS SHOW ITS FINALLY GETTING EPIC!!!!

ITS SOOOOO GOOOOOOOD

They really pull off the whole-classroom-of-characters aspect so well. Obviously Nagisa, Karma and the teachers are going to get the most overall focus, but I love how they switch around the main supporting cast episode-to-episode and everyone has their own specialties that come out in the spotlight.

Quote

 BalrogLord, on 04 June 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

I decided to get back into fairy tail after giving up on it the better part of a year on it. I looked up a filler guide and started from the nearest non filler point. I watched all of 6 episodes before caught up. Thats right, Fairy tail was in filler mode for the better part of a year... On the one hand, im glad i missed the fillers, but on the other hand, fillers for the better part of a year????? WTF???

Whoa, Fairy Tale ever had a plot? I thought it was intentionally all just little magic-frat-mercenaries mini-arcs...

I will openly admit that fairy tail is more of a guilty pleasure than anything else. That being said, fillers are awful by any standard and must be avoided like the plague that they are.

Quote

re: Hunter X Hunter - didn't the person writing it stop, or something like that? So it will never have a big ending, just the ending of whatever the last arc was? (Unlike One Piece which is STILL going under the original writer)

i was under the impression hunter x hunter was a finished affair

[The Hust Legion]

i saw fairy tail being mentioned and i was just gonna mention it myself.... i find it awesome, i can't explain really why its just my favourite, bearing in mind i like over the top shounen anime i guess the immaturity of it appeals to me. but no one mentions it here much but yeah ILL STAND UP FOR FT TOO. and saying its my favourite saw one episode of the filler and nope haven't seen it since then but i know the new arc is on bloody love it, I've read the manga so tis a good arc
and yeah hunter x hunter isn't finished but the author is on hiatus, just very lazy apparently but idk yeah he's on a very long break but its been so long like 2 years isn't it that people just assume its finished

i have one huge ass anime list its miles long so if ya peeps don't mind once exams are over I'm gonna be asking some questions over what series to watch

This post has been edited by The Hust Legion: 05 June 2015 - 07:44 PM

[LinearPhilosopher]

...it isn't finished...

shae didn't tell me...

This is gona be really painful in 2-3 months.

as for fairy tail, i like it, but i know its not a good show. Idk Erza is awesome, gray is awesome, gajeel is awesome, natsu has his upsides, its ocasionaly funny (body swap episode had me in tears)

This post has been edited by BalrogLord: 05 June 2015 - 07:16 PM

[D'rek]

BL don't post overt spoilers, please.

 BalrogLord, on 05 June 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

Characters aren't one dimensional, they have two or more , dual blade guy is am asshole but he also cares about his sister. Thats 2 whole dimensions so saying they're one dimensional is mathematically false:P. Kidding aside theres characters do have potential for growth and the possibility of being well executed characters. I mean we can have character archetypes without them being cardboard cutouts provided they are well executed. MC has some obvious people issues but hes slowly getting over them without being too hamhanded about it.

Yes we're not given complete information but that's not exactly deal breaking eh? When we learn about the 13+yr being dead through the narration, isn't it narrated through that vampire girl? Whos to say thats something that isn't a line fed to the kids to keep em from escaping. I could have sworn there was this series of fantasy book where part of the appeal was operating on incorect or incomplete knowledge. Can't remeber the name for the life of me but it had this pretty cool website... really struggling with my memory here, ill let you know when it comes back .

Agreed that his friend just passing the training is a bit rushed but im willing to concede that gripe. Also staying in formation just means staying within weapons reach of each other to cover each others backs and flanks. Again if your main gripe about a show is a lack of exposition, isn't that a good thing? Generally the opposite is a bad thing. I don't need every detail of this universe told me. Just use contigent acceptance(forget the specific hedeigerrian/husserlian term here) of what im watching.

Sure, let's go with the Malazan comparison. Imagine if shortly after the rebellion in Deadhouse Gates started an entire third of the book had Fiddler and co. spend time taking school lessons in a somehow-pristine school house in the middle of the desert, with factory-produced tables, pencils and windows somehow. Pretty sure we would all question where the hell that came from.

 BalrogLord, on 05 June 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

ii) not sure what you're reffering to here, im talking about shirous I WANA BE A HERO!!!!!

Spoiler

iii)Yes, archer could have killed shirou several times over. Not disagreeing with you there, but im going to take a bit of a meta approach to this. I thought archer flashbacks showed just how stupid shirou is. His naive optimism is nothing but a cover for what becomes blind intransigence to the point where archer was broken. Thats not something i see often (reminds me of a quote though, its from that same fantasy series that i still can't put a name too) and it goes one further to show that the singled mindled protagonist is nothing but a fool and needs this ridiculous scenario in order to even triumph. Unfortunately, shirou is the protagonist in a show that revolves around him not dying which is the only flaw in the execution. Aside from that i think the show did the most it could given the constraints.

Spoiler

But that right there is a fundamental flaw. You can't have your cake and eat it - if the show was actually trying to make a point about Shirou being a naive dolt then it should kill him. By having him somehow pull superpowers out of his ass and beat Archer (while yelling "Just because you're right doesn't mean you're correct!" ) it is saying that Shirou is right and siding with him.

[EmperorMagus]

 Silencer, on 05 June 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

By FMA do you mean Brotherhood? Because the HxH I've watched is just a less well drawn version of that style but with more of the art-break annoying stuff that FMA:B uses occasionally..., >.>

Confuses.

Did you see the original series? because I've no idea how that one looks. The new rebooted series was pretty well animated. At least in my opinion. Also the annoying art happens, but it is the most appropriate use of the art breaking I've seen. And very sparingly used, specially in the later more serious parts.

 BalrogLord, on 05 June 2015 - 07:15 PM, said:

...it isn't finished...

shae didn't tell me...

This is gona be really painful in 2-3 months.

as for fairy tail, i like it, but i know its not a good show. Idk Erza is awesome, gray is awesome, gajeel is awesome, natsu has his upsides, its ocasionaly funny (body swap episode had me in tears)

The Author wants to write and draw the manga himself and his back has problems.
The anime itself did have a pretty good ending that can stand alone by itself. All ongoing storyline ended and something new was just hinted at for the later arcs. It certainly wasn't a cliffhanger.

This post has been edited by EmperorMagus: 05 June 2015 - 08:34 PM

[The Hust Legion]

Spoiler

isn't archer what shirou becomes , so isnt that the point of shires "idiocy" his naivety is what lead to archer being such a miserable git, well the paths his naive nature led him down. i thought thats they were shown together shirou is meant to be an idiot it doesn't seem like a constraint, i just think shirous single mindedness at times is emphasised to highlight the difference between him and archer. also after seeing fate zero my god how did kiritsugu raise such an idiot, genius assassin terrible dad

Silencer edit: because SPOILERS.

[LinearPhilosopher]

 D, on 05 June 2015 - 08:12 PM, said:

BL don't post overt spoilers, please.

 BalrogLord, on 05 June 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

Characters aren't one dimensional, they have two or more , dual blade guy is am asshole but he also cares about his sister. Thats 2 whole dimensions so saying they're one dimensional is mathematically false:P. Kidding aside theres characters do have potential for growth and the possibility of being well executed characters. I mean we can have character archetypes without them being cardboard cutouts provided they are well executed. MC has some obvious people issues but hes slowly getting over them without being too hamhanded about it.

Yes we're not given complete information but that's not exactly deal breaking eh? When we learn about the 13+yr being dead through the narration, isn't it narrated through that vampire girl? Whos to say thats something that isn't a line fed to the kids to keep em from escaping. I could have sworn there was this series of fantasy book where part of the appeal was operating on incorect or incomplete knowledge. Can't remeber the name for the life of me but it had this pretty cool website... really struggling with my memory here, ill let you know when it comes back .

Agreed that his friend just passing the training is a bit rushed but im willing to concede that gripe. Also staying in formation just means staying within weapons reach of each other to cover each others backs and flanks. Again if your main gripe about a show is a lack of exposition, isn't that a good thing? Generally the opposite is a bad thing. I don't need every detail of this universe told me. Just use contigent acceptance(forget the specific hedeigerrian/husserlian term here) of what im watching.

Sure, let's go with the Malazan comparison. Imagine if shortly after the rebellion in Deadhouse Gates started an entire third of the book had Fiddler and co. spend time taking school lessons in a somehow-pristine school house in the middle of the desert, with factory-produced tables, pencils and windows somehow. Pretty sure we would all question where the hell that came from.

Well don't forget MC was on patrol killing monsters before being sent there to tame him. School equipment cool have likely been salvaged from elsewhere. Idk if you're trying to rebuild humanity isn't having some sort of a education system a good thing to have to do it? Its also mentioned that school's purpose is to test students. Do traditional schools as we know them even exist in malazan? Finally the whole prophesy bit, im sure itll be expanded upon. Its not like we need to have it reapeated time and again like the curse of mandos was in the silmarillion. Im fine with there being holes in the story as long as im given some sort of an explanation for it later on.

Quote

 BalrogLord, on 05 June 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

ii) not sure what you're reffering to here, im talking about shirous I WANA BE A HERO!!!!!

Spoiler

iii)Yes, archer could have killed shirou several times over. Not disagreeing with you there, but im going to take a bit of a meta approach to this. I thought archer flashbacks showed just how stupid shirou is. His naive optimism is nothing but a cover for what becomes blind intransigence to the point where archer was broken. Thats not something i see often (reminds me of a quote though, its from that same fantasy series that i still can't put a name too) and it goes one further to show that the singled mindled protagonist is nothing but a fool and needs this ridiculous scenario in order to even triumph. Unfortunately, shirou is the protagonist in a show that revolves around him not dying which is the only flaw in the execution. Aside from that i think the show did the most it could given the constraints.

Spoiler

But that right there is a fundamental flaw. You can't have your cake and eat it - if the show was actually trying to make a point about Shirou being a naive dolt then it should kill him. By having him somehow pull superpowers out of his ass and beat Archer (while yelling "Just because you're right doesn't mean you're correct!" ) it is saying that Shirou is right and siding with him.

Spoiler

sorry i forgot to use the spoiler tag, my bad. And again, unfrotunately shirou has to survive in this series. Its just the way the story is set out. Call it plotkai or plot armour if you will. As bad as it is though, i can respect the writer trying to do something. The events panning out the way they did, even having the protagonist saying something as stupid as that, to me is a meta way of making fun of the shounen protagonist while still ahdering to the rules of a shounen protagonist series.

The execution may not be perfect, but ill give an author credit for aiming high and failing then simply aiming low and succeeding.

This post has been edited by BalrogLord: 05 June 2015 - 08:55 PM

[Silencer]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure you die a lot in the bad endings in the original VN.

I think the problem is that adapting the source material is a mistake. It doesn't have the story integrity to become a cohesive whole that is anything other than absurd.

It's often a problem with VN adaptations but I think F/SN takes the cake for being impossible to adapt without throwing away the original material and just writing a proper plot with the original characters and nothing else (and making Shirou a completely different character and/or removing him from the spotlight almost entirely).

However. You note the utter blowing off of the rules and that... That is actually kind of the point.

Spoiler

As is the futility of it all. Zero was the cause of the problems with the following series, mostly. When the Grail was corrupted in the previous War by the Einzberns summoning of an Avenger class servant who was then merged with the Grail to become Angra Mainoru, it essentially rendered the rest of the Wars pointless. But when Zero happened, including a certain someone Excalibur-ising the Grail and a man as fucked as Kirei getting taken in (and Gilgamesh), it started to ruin the fabric of the war itself.
Next minute you've got things that aren't Servants being summoned, you've got True Incarnations being included in the war, and a corrupt Judge who refuses to arbitrate the battles and instead manipulates it and then participates in it. The sheer level of fucked up futility in the Fifth Grail War is absurd.

Of course, the fact that you have to have a degree in Grail War history and information about the Servants and Masters and Grail the just doesn't exist in the series itself to appreciate that is where it all goes wrong.

That's why Zero was fantastic. It was self-contained and mostly made sense. You didn't need context to make it work. And it wasn't some sort of Frankenstein of multiple story arcs, either.

Really, if I was going to make a Stay Night series, I'd have to rewrite it to be much more coherent. Fuck the source material, it needs to stand by itself, and if they'd replaced half of Shirou's whining and the bad romance with plot and world building, it might actually have been ok. Though I think it needs a lot more than that to shine. Plus it needs to be more of a Zero s2 than it's own thing, intended to be viewed together, if not necessarily in that order.



.... This just makes me want to write it myself. XD

[EmperorMagus]

 Silencer, on 06 June 2015 - 02:02 AM, said:

To be fair, I'm pretty sure you die a lot in the bad endings in the original VN.

I think the problem is that adapting the source material is a mistake. It doesn't have the story integrity to become a cohesive whole that is anything other than absurd.

It's often a problem with VN adaptations but I think F/SN takes the cake for being impossible to adapt without throwing away the original material and just writing a proper plot with the original characters and nothing else (and making Shirou a completely different character and/or removing him from the spotlight almost entirely).

However. You note the utter blowing off of the rules and that... That is actually kind of the point.

Spoiler

As is the futility of it all. Zero was the cause of the problems with the following series, mostly. When the Grail was corrupted in the previous War by the Einzberns summoning of an Avenger class servant who was then merged with the Grail to become Angra Mainoru, it essentially rendered the rest of the Wars pointless. But when Zero happened, including a certain someone Excalibur-ising the Grail and a man as fucked as Kirei getting taken in (and Gilgamesh), it started to ruin the fabric of the war itself.
Next minute you've got things that aren't Servants being summoned, you've got True Incarnations being included in the war, and a corrupt Judge who refuses to arbitrate the battles and instead manipulates it and then participates in it. The sheer level of fucked up futility in the Fifth Grail War is absurd.

Of course, the fact that you have to have a degree in Grail War history and information about the Servants and Masters and Grail the just doesn't exist in the series itself to appreciate that is where it all goes wrong.

That's why Zero was fantastic. It was self-contained and mostly made sense. You didn't need context to make it work. And it wasn't some sort of Frankenstein of multiple story arcs, either.

Really, if I was going to make a Stay Night series, I'd have to rewrite it to be much more coherent. Fuck the source material, it needs to stand by itself, and if they'd replaced half of Shirou's whining and the bad romance with plot and world building, it might actually have been ok. Though I think it needs a lot more than that to shine. Plus it needs to be more of a Zero s2 than it's own thing, intended to be viewed together, if not necessarily in that order.



.... This just makes me want to write it myself. XD

How does one acquire these VNs if one is interested?

[LinearPhilosopher]

use torrents. Its next to impossible to acquire them legally outside of japan

[D'rek]

 Silencer, on 06 June 2015 - 02:02 AM, said:

However. You note the utter blowing off of the rules and that... That is actually kind of the point.

Spoiler

As is the futility of it all. Zero was the cause of the problems with the following series, mostly. When the Grail was corrupted in the previous War by the Einzberns summoning of an Avenger class servant who was then merged with the Grail to become Angra Mainoru, it essentially rendered the rest of the Wars pointless. But when Zero happened, including a certain someone Excalibur-ising the Grail and a man as fucked as Kirei getting taken in (and Gilgamesh), it started to ruin the fabric of the war itself.
Next minute you've got things that aren't Servants being summoned, you've got True Incarnations being included in the war, and a corrupt Judge who refuses to arbitrate the battles and instead manipulates it and then participates in it. The sheer level of fucked up futility in the Fifth Grail War is absurd.

Of course, the fact that you have to have a degree in Grail War history and information about the Servants and Masters and Grail the just doesn't exist in the series itself to appreciate that is where it all goes wrong.

That's why Zero was fantastic. It was self-contained and mostly made sense. You didn't need context to make it work. And it wasn't some sort of Frankenstein of multiple story arcs, either.

Really, if I was going to make a Stay Night series, I'd have to rewrite it to be much more coherent. Fuck the source material, it needs to stand by itself, and if they'd replaced half of Shirou's whining and the bad romance with plot and world building, it might actually have been ok. Though I think it needs a lot more than that to shine. Plus it needs to be more of a Zero s2 than it's own thing, intended to be viewed together, if not necessarily in that order.



.... This just makes me want to write it myself. XD

bolded sentence - exactly! I think the franchise would have worked a LOT better if the writer had actually portrayed the 2nd or 3rd Grail War *first*. By doing the fifth first, he introduces all these rules and systems that have the audience expecting one thing, and then at every possible turn three or more different things (several of which just come out of nowhere) ruining those expectations, and not in a suspenseful way. Most of those things, especially the ones that come out of nowhere, are often only explained in the most minimal manner possible, and you basically have to go read the fate wiki to actually understand what the heck is going on.

Fate/Original already had at the very start the fact that the fifth war was starting 50 years early and most of the Masters are woefully unprepared. That, plus maybe Rule Breaker, Caster's Master-switching and not-Kojiro is all you really need to take the story in unexpected directions while still keeping it fairly rooted to its original concept. It's not like Berserker and others' noble phantasms don't provide plenty of suspense. Maybe keep the deviant Judge bit in, too, if you need that extra tension. Then at the finale reveal the Avenger problems and have that be your hook into the next chapter of the franchise where that aspect gets explored more.

Instead the writer added, in addition to all of the above:

Spoiler

Sakura/Shinji Master switching!

An extra Servant that comes out of nowhere for no apparent reason unless you've seen Fate/Zero (which hadn't been written yet) and it is not satisfactorily explained how he can even have existed this long without mana.

Servants can come from the future!

A Servant can be YOU from the future!

A Servant who is you from the future wants to kill you! Even though the timelines are already clearly different and such drastic measures are obviously unreasonable/unnecessary.

There's some sort of universal force that recruits people to murder people for the sake or order or something. Let's talk about this once and never delve deeper!

You can learn the skills of future Servant YOU by touching your swords to his... or something.

Your dad put a magic scabbard in your body (somehow) without ever telling you and it keeps you alive! This seems so ordinary and unshocking we'll never talk about it again!

Servants don't actually get a wish, they're deaths just feed the Grail!

One of the Masters is actually a mini grail... thing...

Oh wait, she's dead, but now ANOTHER Master can also be the mini grail... thing... even though she's not a homunculus... or something

The Grail is tainted by a random African kid from 100 years ago!

...and probably a bunch of other stuff I'm forgetting...

And it just makes the whole thing so messy. There's no plotline to follow all the way through, because the current "main plot" always becomes pointless after some new revelation, and the constant 'revelations' make so many of the characters' choices and attitudes from before retroactively stupid in so many cases.

Maybe, *maybe* they could have included ALL of that and actually done it in a compelling, narratively-sensical way that keeps the whole story intact and doesn't require constant wiki-reading to understand, but they didn't! They decided to just throw all that crap into the very first chapter, most of it in complete pulled-out-of-ass ways!

[Silencer]

Yeah. Heaven's Feel is a better route in a lot of those regards, but to facilitate it's own plot there are a bunch of other new things that need to be explained. XD


... I am seriously considering trying to rewrite the story now. Early NaNo project for the year? Might actually be able to get the 50k words down if I start now... >. >

[The Hust Legion]

flicking love shokugeki no soma, its right up my street, bonkers enough to be entertaining and serious enough not to be cringeworthy and also like the fact how they went in a different direction in terms of the episode, seeing yukihira overcome every single damn thing in his path without having his confidence smashed would have gotten stale after a while, but this episode makes things a little interesting.