[LinearPhilosopher]

aparently the whole gun arc has different characters so i might be interested. Also new attack on titan ova set for april 9th. No idea if this'll be another one of those chibi ovas or something realted to the main series.

[Silencer]

Yes and no. GGO introduces a new game (along with another reason for Kirito to enter it) and as such introduces new characters and main antagonists etc. But it also has the other characters in it in the real world and introduces a bit more plot on that side (which ties in with why Kirito is going into another game) plus it has some overarching storyline potential.

I quite liked it. But I can totally see it being mangled by the studio. XD

[Silencer]

Alright. Going purely off the first episode, Log Horizon is what SAO should have been. This is both awesome, and moderately vexing. I shall watch more to verify. XD

[D'rek]

Silencer, on 29 March 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Alright. Going purely off the first episode, Log Horizon is what SAO should have been. This is both awesome, and moderately vexing. I shall watch more to verify. XD

I actually thought SAO did it better. Sure the plot/pacing was weird in SAO and it seems if you've read the light novels of it beforehand it will be a huge disappointment (but otherwise not?), but SAO had a lot more tension and a lot more emotion to it. Log Horizon is good, too, but since all the characters just shrug off the fact that they are stuck in a MMORPG and since death isn't permanent I found it to be quite a bit lighter/popcorn fair. In SAO, straight from the first episode the stakes are high and the environment itself is and feels like the antagonist to the characters. I like both, but SAO had a lot more heart, even when it went to Alfheim.



In other news, I am about to start the last episode of Magi. I almost don't want to watch it, simply because it is going to be the last, at least for a long time. But damn it, the second-last episode had so much "beating the final boss, but things seem to be going a bit too easily" vibe to it that I know this last one is going to be insane... here goes!

This post has been edited by D'rek: 31 March 2014 - 01:49 AM

[D'rek]

And it was pretty awesome, though definitely not a "series closer", so they sure better eventually make season 3!

[Silencer]

D, on 31 March 2014 - 01:48 AM, said:

Silencer, on 29 March 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Alright. Going purely off the first episode, Log Horizon is what SAO should have been. This is both awesome, and moderately vexing. I shall watch more to verify. XD

I actually thought SAO did it better. Sure the plot/pacing was weird in SAO and it seems if you've read the light novels of it beforehand it will be a huge disappointment (but otherwise not?), but SAO had a lot more tension and a lot more emotion to it. Log Horizon is good, too, but since all the characters just shrug off the fact that they are stuck in a MMORPG and since death isn't permanent I found it to be quite a bit lighter/popcorn fair. In SAO, straight from the first episode the stakes are high and the environment itself is and feels like the antagonist to the characters. I like both, but SAO had a lot more heart, even when it went to Alfheim.

Ah, sorry, you misunderstood me. I didn't mean conceptually - I meant in terms of execution. Log Horizon is slower, deeper, the characters are more fleshed out, and the plot is paced a lot better. As an anime, it is miles ahead of SAO.

Conceptually, or in terms of the light novel, SAO is a better story, and the characters are more interesting. But the anime...not so much. I'll admit that for a lot of "casual" anime watchers, and it seems plenty of people who never read the LNs, the SAO anime was very well received (though the ALO arc less so) and gets a lot of praise. But for people who like their adaptations to NOT put all the side-stories in anachronic order at the start of an anime...well...plus, again, the execution and pacing were atrocious.

While I'm only 7 or so episodes in Log Horizon, though, I don't see any characters doing any more "shrugging off" of their situation than the characters did in anime-SAO (in the LNs, it went to a lot more detail/concern); they just took it on board better. Indeed, a lot of these first episodes are with them struggling to establish a sense of purpose, order, and rules for their current situation. anime-SAO didn't cover that so much.
Besides, the only practical difference between the situation in SAO and Log Horizon is that in SAO, the circumstances were spelled out for everyone by Kayaba Akihito at the start - so they were told (though unable to prove) that dying in SAO meant dying in the real world.

In Log Horizon, someone had to die before they figured out that they do, in fact, respawn. However, fundamentally, this knowledge is meaningless. After all, what if repeated deaths in the game led to a permanent death? Or what if repeated deaths lead to you being logged out? It's really no different than in SAO, where the characters have no idea if dying in the game meant you died IRL or simply got logged out, or put into a "waiting room" to observe things until the resolution. The players just take it differently because they didn't have anyone threaten them with death - and even in SAO, characters did still try to get out through suicide or whatever.

Honestly, I think the biggest mistake of SAO was doing the first arc in twelveish episodes, including the side stories. Those side stories should have, at most, been inserts in between major events. The arc should then have been a full run of 24ish episodes. If they'd taken their time, and fleshed out the world more, THEN it would have had tension/depth/immersion! As it stands, it was a barely coherent rush of half-baked scenes, where the majority of character interaction is shallow or stilted, and the combat is mostly discretion shots because they couldn't afford the budget. Most of Kirito's major character motivations are covered in a single, brief, poorly handled side story!

At least Log Horizon, though undeniably presenting less imminent danger to the protagonists, is taking its time in building characters and the world; plus, the psychological threats and general behaviour of some of the guilds/PKers? That could hardly be considered "lighter fare" or a more pleasant situation to be in. But then, I haven't finished the series, so I don't know what happens in the middle of the plot. But so far, my impression that this is a much more polished, cared-for production than SAO has not been lessened.



I guess, SAO felt to me like it was made by massive fans of the LNs...who unfortunately are not that good at adapting written work to animation. Or who lacked the budget and resources to do it justice. Log Horizon feels more professional and better backed, more than anything. Add in the fact that the anime can't stack up against the source material for SAO and, well...yeah. XD

[QuickTidal]

I've been sadly lax in my anime watching recently (wedding planning is sucking up nearly all my time)...but since getting Netflix I've noticed an absolute SHITLOAD of series are up there to consume. Methinks it's binge-watching anime time.

[D'rek]

Silencer, on 09 April 2014 - 07:28 AM, said:

While I'm only 7 or so episodes in Log Horizon, though, I don't see any characters doing any more "shrugging off" of their situation than the characters did in anime-SAO (in the LNs, it went to a lot more detail/concern); they just took it on board better. Indeed, a lot of these first episodes are with them struggling to establish a sense of purpose, order, and rules for their current situation. anime-SAO didn't cover that so much.
Besides, the only practical difference between the situation in SAO and Log Horizon is that in SAO, the circumstances were spelled out for everyone by Kayaba Akihito at the start - so they were told (though unable to prove) that dying in SAO meant dying in the real world.

I definitely disagree. Yes, in LH we the viewers and the characters don't know for sure what happens when they respawn, nor what it means to kill one of the NPCs, etc., but other than the brief worry from the characters before one of them dies and respawns there really isn't any time spent thinking about it (at least, not in the first dozen episodes, and only by a couple characters very briefly later on). As far as it is presented to the viewer, the characters all believe that everyone respawns with no problems and so they consider things like the thugs killing other players to be cruel, but not horrendous (ie the city and central characters are not immediately furious and in revolt about the whole thing). SAO, on the other hand, shows us the characters before they enter the game with the VR helmets, and has the creator explicitly telling them in the first episode not only that they will die if they die in-game, but precisely how the helmet will kill them, and then telling them exactly how many players have already died because their families or friends have tried to disconnect them. While we can't know for sure that it is truth, the characters all strenuously believe it. When Kirito finds a group of players that kill other players, even if they delusionally are still clinging to the idea of it being just a game, Kirito is furious and deals with them as murderors, which they are.

Or, as a different example, SAO has Kirito and Asuna having to make difficult the difficult choice of trying to rescue a bunch of under-skilled militia guys from a dungeon boss they don't think they can beat. Their choices are to let those militia guys die in front of them and survive, or to make a suicide charge that might help some of them escape but will probably just get Kirito and Asuna themselves killed. And the show certainly treats it as a difficult emotional decision, pausing the action, emotional outbursts happening, etc. That doesn't/wouldn't happen in Log Horizon. When the LH characters run into a big, unfamiliar boss on their way to rescue the trapped little girl in another city, they're not worried about losing against it. It's an "oh cool, lets have fun killing this new giant monster thing!" moment, because the worst that can happen is they respawn back at the first city and have to add a couple extra days' travel to their quest.

Which is not to say that either approach is better or worse - I'm actually glad that the two shows went for very different styles and tones or else they'd be far too similar. And I'm not disagreeing that LH has the superior execution. But I wouldn't recommend LH to someone who is looking for an emotionally-intense anime, just like I wouldn't recommend SAO to someone who likes devious strategizing and politicking.

---

In other news, I have gotten bored with the Big O after a half dozen episodes. The investigative stuff is not that engaging, and it always just comes down to 2 robots at the end. Even when he drives to a whole other city to investigate a broken power dam, it turns out at the end that he got his butler to send him his giant robot on a huge flatbed truck overnight?! So, I skipped to the last episode of season 1, and it was kind of more interesting but still nothing really came out of the investigative parts and I'm not motivated to watch an entire other season of it to collect all the interesting bits sprinkled about for the presumed series finale that puts them together.

[Silencer]

Then again, I wouldn't recommend SAO to someone looking for an emotionally-intense anime, either. Maybe something "slightly more serious", but the only reason I felt *anything* for the SAO characters was because I'd read the LNs. Without that, I don't think it would have had much impact at all - and that's all down to the execution.

And to be fair, that boss character you reference in LH was well under the difficulty threshold for the characters in question. By the end of SAO, I doubt Kirito and co. would have been too concerned about taking on the first dungeon boss together, either. (Given by that point, they'd probably all heal faster than said boss can do sufficient damage to them - more or less, LH's protagonists are all at max level, with top-tier gear and skills, so even if there was the threat of permanent death, it wasn't coming from that monster.)

And really, my point was more or less that in both cases, the players believe only what they observe/know - thus the corresponding attitudes. In SAO, they believe (rightly) that in-game death is RL death. Thus, PK'ing, and risky situations in general, are treated more seriously (unlike in ALO). In LH, they've seen someone respawn, so death is treated as no big deal, aside from travel time, standard MMO death penalty, etc. This makes sense. Everyone wasn't sure what death would be like to start out with - but without a giant Kayaba telling you that death is for real, you'd have no reason to be certain either way. Cautious, yes, but it's nowhere near the level of risk in SAO from the get-go. And one death was all it took to confirm. SAO never actually got any confirmation of Kayaba's words (until the end, obviously).

But in the anime, SAO only spends five minutes dealing with the consequences of this reality - there are a couple of throwaway lines, one, maybe two episodes which deal with how much of a 'thing' PK'ing is (sleep-PK'ing is still hilariously sick to me), the rest of it is focused on Kirito doing stuff that has little relevance to the story or world, until the end. As far as I can see, in LH we've spent essentially *half* of the entirety of the SAO arc with characters getting their bearings and dealing with the fallout of being stuck in a videogame - figuring out how to cook food, prevent what amounts to griefing, exploiting, etc. That's like...all of the side-story filler episodes that made up the majority of "season one" of SAO.


I'm not arguing that it's more serious in tone - the consequences just aren't as immediately severe, so there's never going to be that level of tension/risk (though, honestly, Kirito's only risks in SAO were on behalf of others; aside from the Death God Secret Boss and the one he took down singlehandedly near the beginning, he was almost always, when on-screen, 'safe' - and that's not including plot armour) that there is of impending death. I just think they're exploring more details of "what would people do?" - which the LN of SAO had a lot more of. While it's obviously a massive 'background noise' throughout SAO, because of the way the series was handled, it's all condensed which leads to it feeling, to me, glossed over. Unimportant. A side note.

While I'm happy they went different ways, I'd much rather that SAO spent even half the time that LH has so far focusing on those very same moral quandaries, details of life, and general problems that adapting to life in an MMO-turned-everyday-reality would necessitate. They didn't get mountains of time in the LN, but at least they were addressed. It's all about the pacing and what's been cut out - leave LH to the less-serious, no-real-consequences tone of ridiculous schemes and so forth, but at least use the seriousness of possibly dying IRL while playing a video game for more than two side episodes and the finale.


I dunno. Maybe it's because I already knew how everything turned out, but sooooo much cool little details from the LN were cut, that everything else just lost its impact and felt smooshed together in the anime. *shrug* I like that LH is taking its time.

[D'rek]

Silencer, on 09 April 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

And to be fair, that boss character you reference in LH was well under the difficulty threshold for the characters in question. By the end of SAO, I doubt Kirito and co. would have been too concerned about taking on the first dungeon boss together, either. (Given by that point, they'd probably all heal faster than said boss can do sufficient damage to them - more or less, LH's protagonists are all at max level, with top-tier gear and skills, so even if there was the threat of permanent death, it wasn't coming from that monster.)

The starting-at-level-one-billion is an intentional choice in LH, though, and it makes all the difference. Regardless of their "levels" the first big boss the SAO characters encounter in the first few episodes plays out very intensely: it is a threat to them at their current level, it is not the same as the boss they expected, revelations are learned about some characters, and people die in others' arms. SAO decided the first big "boss" in the first couple episodes should have those things, and it not only does have emotional intensity but also highlights how the environment will be a constant unpredictable threat around the characters. LH decided that the first big "boss" its characters run into should be a fun little battle that doesn't really mean much or inconvenience anyone, and that was a deliberate choice. It's not about the superficial plot elements, so you can't compare the characters from the end of one series with the start of the other, its about what the tone that is set for the series is at that climax-of-the-first-few-episodes!

Arguably you could say the LH early-climactic event is in like episode 7 or so when they fight the big monk guy, but again the characters have no reason to fear losing the battle as if they do they will just respawn and make the trip again. The tone of that whole battle is a "look how cool Shiro and cat-man are, as they do all this cool timing stuff that utterly defeats monkman". And that's fine, that's the kind of tone they want to set for the whole series, its definitely not as emotionally investing as the attack leader guy dying in Kirito's arms.

Silencer, on 09 April 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

But in the anime, SAO only spends five minutes dealing with the consequences of this reality - there are a couple of throwaway lines, one, maybe two episodes which deal with how much of a 'thing' PK'ing is (sleep-PK'ing is still hilariously sick to me), the rest of it is focused on Kirito doing stuff that has little relevance to the story or world, until the end. As far as I can see, in LH we've spent essentially *half* of the entirety of the SAO arc with characters getting their bearings and dealing with the fallout of being stuck in a videogame - figuring out how to cook food, prevent what amounts to griefing, exploiting, etc. That's like...all of the side-story filler episodes that made up the majority of "season one" of SAO.

Definitely disagree. There's more threats like the guild guy who is supposed to go on a mission with Kirito but instead tries to paralyze and murder him in cold blood. And the environment itself poses a threat - when he and the blacksmith girl get attacked by a dragon it is not just a cool monster encounter, it is also a potential threat to their lives. Later, they get trapped down a giant hole and since they can't just teleport out or respawn at the cathedral, they are genuinely worried about freezing and starving to death.

And I believe this does emotionally resonate, and that it does get intense. Shiro doesn't want to form a guild because he lacks self-confidence and because he misses his friend (who isn't dead, she just isn't logged in and is probably have a grand adventure back in the real world). Kirito, on the other hand, makes friends and forms a party, then sees them all killed right in front of him, and can't stand the thought of that ever happening again. Even when they go to Alfheim, and he can respawn and is totally safe, the emotional scarring from seeing so many of his compatriots killed in the original world where death was serious has him now screaming at his companion that he can't stand to surrender even though they're now in a world with no consequences to death. I don't see how you can argue that the show does not deal with the consequences of the reality, they're just showing you the consequences in Kirito's emotional scarring instead of explaining it in monologues and voice overs the way LH does.

[LinearPhilosopher]

you all need to start watching mahouka kouko, definetly the best of the season.

Also solid it hitsugi no chaika (if you want a fantasy themed anime), or for sci fi go with knight of sidonia (sidonia no kishi)

This post has been edited by BalrogLord: 12 April 2014 - 07:49 PM

[Silencer]

Psh. As if I wasn't already watching Mahouka. XD

[yuna_anomander25]

finished both seasons of Kuroko no Basket and Magi: The Kingdom of Magic,, now I have no idea what to watch between waiting for new seasons of those 2 animes,, though there's news of an OVA of Sinbad no Bouken,,
also finished season 1 of Gundam Age,, will watch season 2 next Tuesday,,

maybe I will finish my backlog of unfinished anime's,, hmm,,

[Silencer]

yuna_anomander25, on 13 April 2014 - 01:55 AM, said:

maybe I will finish my backlog of unfinished anime's,, hmm,,

Hah! I keep trying to do this, but it doesn't work. Just of the ones I actually want to watch/finish, I think there's like 30 of the damn things waiting to be watched. :S

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Currently watching Samurai 7. I'm on episode 4 and not sure what I think of it yet.

[LinearPhilosopher]

yuna_anomander25, on 13 April 2014 - 01:55 AM, said:

finished both seasons of Kuroko no Basket and Magi: The Kingdom of Magic,, now I have no idea what to watch between waiting for new seasons of those 2 animes,, though there's news of an OVA of Sinbad no Bouken,,
also finished season 1 of Gundam Age,, will watch season 2 next Tuesday,,

maybe I will finish my backlog of unfinished anime's,, hmm,,

mahouka kouko, go watch it now. It's that good.

[Silencer]

Well...the Fall season of anime this year will be awesome: TV Tropes listings.

Fate/Stay Night (UFOTABLE edition!)
Log Horizon 2
Psycho-Pass 2

Following on from SAO: Phantom Bullet and, at this stage, not much else in the Summer lineup, that's pretty strong to have booked so far - there's at least a half dozen other titles that are likely to be announced, though who knows of what caliber. (*Cue rumours of the next Darker than Black season/my brain imploding*)

[Silencer]

BalrogLord, on 14 April 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

yuna_anomander25, on 13 April 2014 - 01:55 AM, said:

finished both seasons of Kuroko no Basket and Magi: The Kingdom of Magic,, now I have no idea what to watch between waiting for new seasons of those 2 animes,, though there's news of an OVA of Sinbad no Bouken,,
also finished season 1 of Gundam Age,, will watch season 2 next Tuesday,,

maybe I will finish my backlog of unfinished anime's,, hmm,,

mahouka kouko, go watch it now. It's that good.

They're doing the adaptation well. They've just spent 3 episodes covering the content of the first light novel (approximately 5 chapters), which is a reasonable amount of time for that much content, plus they are being *very* good with the parts they are cutting/streamlining. (Though there was one bit that made more sense in the LN than the anime, due to a scene that was cut, but it wasn't too bad anyway.)

If this rate of episode-to-LN-volume keeps up, they've got plenty of episodes left -this could be a two-season, or two-cour adaptation with ease ATM. (There are eleven LN volumes detailing the first year, so that's around 26-35 episodes at this rate. I imagine they will either go for 26 (with some arcs needing less episodes), or it will be a two season project with 12/13 or so episodes each... But I haven't read far enough to find a decent stopping point for 'season one', so I'm thinking it will be a double run instead.

[LinearPhilosopher]

my friend who reccomended this series to me told me there's going to be at least 4 seasons for this show.

also silencer, the sprign season has barely begun and you're already considering the summer season?

[Silencer]

BalrogLord, on 21 April 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

my friend who reccomended this series to me told me there's going to be at least 4 seasons for this show.

O.o

How? XD I mean, I know there are spin-offs/side stories (like one focusing on Miyuki, and some one-shots for some of the peripheral characters), but I figured those would easily fit into a total run of 26ish episodes. Frankly, I don't see how the series could maintain 4 seasons that weren't back-to-back.

If he means there are going to be two, two-cour 'seasons' (i.e. two sets of 26 episodes), then, sure. Or if the other two or three extra seasons are long-term (because, honestly, last I checked, the main characters have only just finished their first year, in the LNs - while there are additional LNs coming with second-and-third-year stuff going on, I doubt the series will be written fast enough to do this in the short term. I wouldn't expect episodes based on the characters' later exploits to show up until at least next year, if not the year after... :S

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see four seasons of this show (if it continues its present quality), but I didn't think there was the source material for that quantity of episodes.

Quote

also silencer, the sprign season has barely begun and you're already considering the summer season?

Honestly, the Spring season is pretty dry, imo. Mahouka is, so far, the only show I'm bothering to follow weekly. I'm considering a couple of others, but nothing else has grabbed me yet (and I *do* have a massive backlog...). I know that Summer isn't going to be that great at this stage either, but that could change over the next few months quite easily. But for Fall to have three A-grade shows/sequels lined up already? The rest of the year almost doesn't matter.
(Granted, Fall seems to do pretty well on average for big releases - but the rest of the year is seeming a bit light at the moment. At least in terms of things to really get in to; I'm sure there's plenty of "casual viewing" stuff floating around, but the series which I will feel compelled to buy once they release on DVD? Not so much. )