[Ilona]

After a couple of days of abusing the encyclopedia and search tool, I have to get this cleared up even at the risk of sounding dumb.

I'll admit right away that I can't remember too much of what we find out about Tulas Shorn before the last three books (if anything), but he's been bothering me a lot lately. Namely his, well, name. Shorn. I don't want to jump into any weird conclusions, because as far as I remember we're not given any reason to believe that he could have been an outcast, but Edur did have the tradition of shorning, at least later on in time (I understand that Tulas lived quite a long time ago and the Edur were then probably quite different). To me it just seems that names in Erikson's universe tend to have meaning (and not just Malazan soldiers named by Braven Tooth); think about Silchas Ruin (he delivers) and to a lesser extend Anomander Rake (ok, it's short for Purake and other spelling variations, but I think you can see a connection between Rake and the meaning of the word). So, I'm not sure what to read into Tulas Shorn. I'm quite likely completely off the track here, but it just seems like an odd choice of a name if it didn't mean anything.

[HoosierDaddy]

It was a fairly common theory that prior to being killed, ending up in Hood's Realm, Tulas was "shorn," in the same vein of Trull. However, after reading TCG, I'm almost wondering if Tulas didn't give himself the name Shorn, as in Shorn from the throne or whatever. Seems to me he couldn't have made a pact with Silchas at such a late date in era of the Sundering and still have been ritually ostracized like Trull.

Timeline issues? Where were going, we don't need timelines.

[Ilona]

HoosierDaddy, on 15 May 2011 - 11:41 PM, said:

It was a fairly common theory that prior to being killed, ending up in Hood's Realm, Tulas was "shorn," in the same vein of Trull. However, after reading TCG, I'm almost wondering if Tulas didn't give himself the name Shorn, as in Shorn from the throne or whatever. Seems to me he couldn't have made a pact with Silchas at such a late date in era of the Sundering and still have been ritually ostracized like Trull.

Timeline issues? Where were going, we don't need timelines.

Yeah, I thought this must have been discussed before. However, when I didn't find the results of such discussion anywhere, I began to think maybe the whole idea was too far off to warrant much attention.

It did cross my mind, too, that he might have taken the name for himself. Seems like such a thing might fit his character (as far as we know him).

[Kanese S's]

Could be that he was shorn and then took the word as a replacement for his surname out of pride/bitterness/regret/guilt/appreciation for irony/etc.

[worry]

It's an inside joke. He "shorns" his nether regions in what is the Tiste version of a Brazilian wax. The Edur embraced the coming of Light for the sunbathing opportunities, while the Shake were busy working as beach staff and complaining all the time, like the dour sons of guns they are. The Watch is probably a Tiste term for "lifeguard," and Yeddan Derrag was clearly modeled after David Hasselhoff.

Anyway, that's what ultimately differentiates the two groups associated with Shadow.

[D'rek]

It is mentioned that other Edur aristrocrats thought he was weird for liking animals so much and were then scandalized when he created the Hounds of Shadow? Scandalized and sacred enough to Shorn him? Maybe so. Another interesting point is that Tulas is of the royal Edur line, but was alive to battle during the convergence following the sundering of Emurlahn, when Scabby had supposedly already murdered all the Edur royal line. Perhaps Tulas wasn't murdered with the rest of them because he was Shorn.

Lastly, most charcters, even ancient Tiste, seem to have two names, and Tulas has been referred to as Kagamandaras Tulas Shorn, so it makes sense that the Shorn part is an add-on.

[Kanese S's]

If he was shorn, as you suggest, he could have escaped Scabandari's extermination of the Edur royal line, because once shorn, he ceased to be viewed as a member of that family.

[HedgeWalker]

worrywort, on 16 May 2011 - 04:56 AM, said:

It's an inside joke. He "shorns" his nether regions in what is the Tiste version of a Brazilian wax. The Edur embraced the coming of Light for the sunbathing opportunities, while the Shake were busy working as beach staff and complaining all the time, like the dour sons of guns they are. The Watch is probably a Tiste term for "lifeguard," and Yeddan Derrag was clearly modeled after David Hasselhoff.

Anyway, that's what ultimately differentiates the two groups associated with Shadow.

Not a surprise - The Hoff could take a dragon no problem...Though I can't attest to the state of his bikini line.

[Ilona]

Yeah; what D'rek says makes sense to me. Cheers for the answers, everyone. (Especially worrywort for the mental images. Thank you ever so much.)

[Steel General]

worrywort, on 16 May 2011 - 04:56 AM, said:

It's an inside joke. He "shorns" his nether regions in what is the Tiste version of a Brazilian wax. The Edur embraced the coming of Light for the sunbathing opportunities, while the Shake were busy working as beach staff and complaining all the time, like the dour sons of guns they are. The Watch is probably a Tiste term for "lifeguard," and Yeddan Derrag was clearly modeled after David Hasselhoff.

Anyway, that's what ultimately differentiates the two groups associated with Shadow.

Hmmmm.... "Shore Watch" anyone?