[Hetan]

I've been reading through bits of TCG and here are some thoughts on the things that I am so looking forward to in the next book.

I just loved Yedan Derryg and the whole Shake storyline came together brilliantly for me during the last few books. I am so looking forward to more of this history and I hope we get it in the next book. In DoD Yedan picks up a Hust sword which heals itself when it's broken..that sounds pretty cool.. and then in this book we hear of the Hust Legion and Anomander's command to them to hold the gate to SD - to kill every eleint who tries to come through, and when the last five are left they are to sacrifice themselves to seal the gate..

Quote

One side crimson with blood, Anomander Rake straightening to face the Hust Legion. “The invasion has just begun,” he told the waiting warriors. “We risk being overwhelmed.” He drew a slow, deep breath, jaws briefly clenching in pain. “I shall wait for them beyond the Rent, to deny them the Throne of Shadow. This leaves the Gate itself. Hust Legion! You shall march to the Gate. You shall march through it. You shall take the battle to them, and hold them there. And,” he scanned the rows of helmed faces, “when the last five of you remain, you must give your lives to sealing that wound. You shall, Hust-armed and Hust-armoured, forever close Starvald Demelain.”
Wailing shrieks from blades and scaled breast-plates, from helms, from greaves and gauntlets, a deafening chorus that shattered into wild laughter. But within that insane glee, the faces of the Andiian warriors were expressionless. And with solemn salutes they acknowledged their Lord’s command.
Hust Legion, we never saw you again.
But the Eleint stopped coming. -(TCG)

Quote

Her words muffled by his shoulder, she said, “Five thousand warriors. From the mines, from the prisons. From the gutters. Five thousand. The Hust Legion – I saw them marching out from the burning city.” She lifted her head, stared at him with tortured eyes. “Their swords howled. Their armour sang with joy. No one stood by and wept. No. Instead, they ran from the laughter, they fled the streets – those not already dead. The sound – so terrible – the Hust Legion marched to their deaths, and no one watched them go!“ - Sandalath - (TCG)

Sandalath becomes Queen of Darkness and can command Silannah at her will? wtf? When we saw her resurrected in MT I honestly thought that she would be simply a normal Tiste Andii you know? - just a Tiste Andii, not a soletaken or a mage, but just a regular joe. Then we find out her back story - guess we saw something coming when Phaed was trying to kill her but who could have known that SE would do that with the character? From that we get a whole huge amount of history regarding the Tiste races and I think it deserves to be out there as speculation for what could be in the next book. So how does the Queen get the power to command the Eleint? I guess through her connection to MD, but surely the eleint would be a law unto themselves?

Scabandari, Osserc etc.. It's wierd that there are many Tiste Andii Soletaken and yet very few Edur or Liosan. Until TCG we only knew of one pure Liosan soletaken (Osserc) and probably his daughter Menandore. For the Edur we only had Scabandari until Tulas Shorn showed up. Which begs the question why? - as it seems the Liosan knew what they had to do to become soletaken. I guess with the gate to SD sealed it was tricky finding a spare dragon to drain. I wonder if the FA or even the KCNR, helped the Liosan to capture Kessobhan? Anyway I digress.... I am hoping to see a bit more Soletaken action/explanation in the next book - in particular the mystery of Tiam.

Tiam - a conundrum - I always thought of Tiam as being an individual eleint - the mother of them all. Then after a while I thought that Tiam's blood is just a name for anyone who had Eleint blood - which is still valid of course,so the whole thing about it being a collective noun was a surprise but I think that it worked well. Of course it does beg the question of how Anomander killed her, because she must have been sembled and therefore absolutely huge - so this goes back to my musings on the Hust legion - Was this how Anomander killed Tiam? - By closing the gate, the eleint could not get out. If the eleint can't get out Tiam cannot resurrect or perhaps with Korabas chained there was no need for her to resurrect? So - close the gate, chain Korabas - done. No more Tiam. A simple matter of Chaos against order. Makes a lot more sense of the whole "Mane of Chaos" title if Tiam is chaos.
I'm not sure why the eleint would need to be free of SD to Storm or manifest though - after all there's loads of them apparently living together in SD so it may well be that the realm itself prohibits that, if SD is the warren of Chaos then there would be no order there and Kilava speculates that the eleint need to be free for the Tiam thing to happen. It was also interesting to read finally, that Korabas (poor Korabas )was the one chosen to represent order and her role explained -


[quote].... “Because the Holds are Elder, you fool. It was K’rul’s bartering with the Eleint that made this whole mess – that brought the warrens into the realms, that forced order upon the chaos of the Old Magic. K’rul’s conniving that saw one dragon selected among the Grand Clan, chosen to become the Negator, the Otataral; while all the others would chain themselves to aspects of magic. They brought law to sorcery, and now I will shatter that law. Forever more!”[quote]

[D'rek]

Quote

Scabandari, Osserc etc.. It's wierd that there are many Tiste Andii Soletaken and yet very few Edur or Liosan. Until TCG we only knew of one pure Liosan soletaken (Osserc) and probably his daughter Menandore. For the Edur we only had Scabandari until Tulas Shorn showed up. Which begs the question why? - as it seems the Liosan knew what they had to do to become soletaken. I guess with the gate to SD sealed it was tricky finding a spare dragon to drain. I wonder if the FA or even the KCNR, helped the Liosan to capture Kessobhan? Anyway I digress.... I am hoping to see a bit more Soletaken action/explanation in the next book - in particular the mystery of Tiam.

It is said that there were a lot more TL eleint but osserc started a big "cleansing the Liosan" civil war and killed most of them to unite the Liosan (after or around the time they sealed KT I think).

For the Edur, it's possible many of the royal line were eleint (like Tulas) and we know Scabby murdered them, plus I imagine many of the remainder would have died in the wars over the sundered Emurlahn (again, like Tulas)

[HoosierDaddy]

Hetan, on 14 May 2011 - 01:02 PM, said:

I've been reading through bits of TCG and here are some thoughts on the things that I am so looking forward to in the next book.

....
....

Sandalath becomes Queen of Darkness and can command Silannah at her will? wtf? When we saw her resurrected in MT I honestly thought that she would be simply a normal Tiste Andii you know? - just a Tiste Andii, not a soletaken or a mage, but just a regular joe. Then we find out her back story - guess we saw something coming when Phaed was trying to kill her but who could have known that SE would do that with the character? From that we get a whole huge amount of history regarding the Tiste races and I think it deserves to be out there as speculation for what could be in the next book. So how does the Queen get the power to command the Eleint? I guess through her connection to MD, but surely the eleint would be a law unto themselves?

....
....
....

It is said SIlanah was of his Court, yes? Perhaps dragon emissaries, as stupid as that sounds 'now', but it's a possibility. KG and SD are the "two chambers of K'rul's heart", obviously chosen for a reason (order and chaos). Perhaps Silanah was a carrier of KG through the bargain and that somehow tied her to the throne and she thought it safer to be there after the bargain?

Lots of good questions.

[Kanese S's]

Do Sukul Ankhadu and Sheltatha Lore not count as Edur? I can't remember.

[worry]

I wonder if the Hust armor prevents eternal torment to those who would seal the wound.

[D'rek]

Kanese S, on 14 May 2011 - 09:14 PM, said:

Do Sukul Ankhadu and Sheltatha Lore not count as Edur? I can't remember.

Sukul does not, her father is Osserc and her mother is Tiam (so it's debatable whether she even counts as any kind of Tiste at all). Sheltatha is half-Edur (father is Scabandari Bloodeye and mother is probably Tiam).

[Kanese S's]

So complicated and confusing. I thought Osserc was Tiste Liosan. I suppose I've been mistaken all this time, then? It's weird how some things can stick in the brain without knowing why I think them.

This post has been edited by Kanese S's: 16 May 2011 - 05:38 AM

[Gothos]

HoosierDaddy, on 14 May 2011 - 07:45 PM, said:

Perhaps Silanah was a carrier of KG through the bargain and that somehow tied her to the throne and she thought it safer to be there after the bargain?

I thought Silanah was Telas? Then again, I do think that there were multiple dragons linked to a single Warren - perhaps it's possible for one dragon to be linked to multiple warrens?
Also, Silanah seemed to be loyal to Rake. Perhaps she is still serving his people, just like Apsal'ara went to serve Nimander.

[HoosierDaddy]

Gothos, on 16 May 2011 - 07:21 AM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on 14 May 2011 - 07:45 PM, said:

Perhaps Silanah was a carrier of KG through the bargain and that somehow tied her to the throne and she thought it safer to be there after the bargain?

I thought Silanah was Telas? Then again, I do think that there were multiple dragons linked to a single Warren - perhaps it's possible for one dragon to be linked to multiple warrens?
Also, Silanah seemed to be loyal to Rake. Perhaps she is still serving his people, just like Apsal'ara went to serve Nimander.

I'm not sure, so you are probably right. I want to say that the Bargain was only for "his" warrens (i.e., non-Elder Warrens) as well.

[D'rek]

Kanese S, on 16 May 2011 - 05:37 AM, said:

So complicated and confusing. I thought Osserc was Tiste Liosan. I suppose I've been mistaken all this time, then? It's weird how some things can stick in the brain without knowing why I think them.

He's an Elder God, or at least Elder Ascendant. He can pretty much be whatever he wants to be. But being the son of FL, he has some similarities to the Tiste Liosan. We don't have enough information to say how much of a connection/similarity he is, though.

HoosierDaddy, on 16 May 2011 - 07:28 AM, said:

Gothos, on 16 May 2011 - 07:21 AM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on 14 May 2011 - 07:45 PM, said:

Perhaps Silanah was a carrier of KG through the bargain and that somehow tied her to the throne and she thought it safer to be there after the bargain?

I thought Silanah was Telas? Then again, I do think that there were multiple dragons linked to a single Warren - perhaps it's possible for one dragon to be linked to multiple warrens?
Also, Silanah seemed to be loyal to Rake. Perhaps she is still serving his people, just like Apsal'ara went to serve Nimander.

I'm not sure, so you are probably right. I want to say that the Bargain was only for "his" warrens (i.e., non-Elder Warrens) as well.

Cotillion says she is Thyr, but it would make sense for her to be Telas, too. She can be both.

[Sinisdar Toste]

eloth claims three warrens in tBH doesn't she? mockra, meanas and rashan/thyr? i could be wrong, but she calls herself the mistress of illusions, so it seems like she could be the shaper for that group

[D'rek]

Sinisdar Toste, on 16 May 2011 - 07:44 PM, said:

eloth claims three warrens in tBH doesn't she? mockra, meanas and rashan/thyr? i could be wrong, but she calls herself the mistress of illusions, so it seems like she could be the shaper for that group

Eloth claims Mockra, Meanas and Thyr. Either Ampelas or Kalse claims Kurald Emurlahn. The third won't admit anything. But they say that they wouldn't be usurpers of Shadow, so it would be reasonable that with elder Shadow and the Paths of shadow and light already represented, the 3rd would be a shaper of Rashan, the remaining Path in the light-shadow-darkness triumvirate.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 16 May 2011 - 10:42 PM

[Hetan]

Kalse is Ice, Silannah is Thyr, which doesn't mean to say they can't be anything else either.

Is Osserc Tiste Liosan or not? Depends really on what you want to believe - up until RoTCG was published it seemed that he was Tiste Liosan as much as Anomander is Tiste Andii :-

Quote

"He was pure Liosan in appearance, tall and pale as snow, his long wavy hair silver and streaked with gold. His eyes seemed to rage with an inner fire, its tones a match to his hair, silver licked by gold. He was wearing plain grey leathers, the sword at his belt virtually identical to the one L'oric carried." - (HoC, UK TPB, p.606)

Then we get :-

Quote

He walked just one pace behind, and slightly to the right of, a slim pale figure who wore layered thick robes that dragged on the ground behind. Long white hair hung to the middle of his back. The man's similarities to the Magus, the Wind Spirit upon the Spur, made Kyle's eyes well with suppressed emotion, but there were differences as well; this man was not as powerfully built and he seemed taller. - (RotCG, US mmpb, p.543)

and also :-

Quote

She halted, looked up to see a white-skinned figure perched atop one of the mounds. Gold hair hanging long, loose, hinting of deep shades of crimson. A white-bladed two-handed sword leaned against one side of his chest, the multifaceted crystal pommel flashing in the brightness. He took many forms, this creature. Some pleasant, others – like this one – like a spit of acid in her eyes. - Kilmandaros - (DoD)

[D'rek]

Hetan, on 17 May 2011 - 05:42 AM, said:

Kalse is Ice

Maybe. Depends on what you want to read into that scene. When Ampelas says he has had many dreams but one particular dream "burns fresh in [his] mind", and Kalse speaks of dreaming of ice, with Cotillion telling them to share their dreams... well I interpret that as their dreams being from the flying and battling of Ameplas Uprooted and Kalse Uprooted. Kalse's dreams of ice are from the Omtose Phellack used by Icarium in Kalse Uprooted, and not indicative of Kalse's particular warren.

"Kalse and Ampelas have shared your gift. They looked upon one another with faces of stone. There was pain. There was fire. An eye opened and it looked upon the Abyss." <-- a pretty accurate picture of the K'Chain battle.