[Morgoth]

I quite enjoy a good night of dancing myself. Never tried dancing with Lawrence though, I imagine he would be difficult to lead.

[Malaclypse]

 Mark Lawrence, on 07 November 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

 Malaclypse, on 06 November 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

edit: I feel a bit bad about my last post because I fucking love everything up to the ending -the journey is amazing, a revelation in fantasy literature to me. The ending was just unfortunate. My stepson finished it on our plane back to the UK from a holiday and he was so disappointed without being able to properly describe why and I had to remind him of the awesomeness that came before to assuage the disappointment with the ending. It's a clear weakness, which Lawrence is hopefully moving to address - the ending of the second book also had logical problems, though obviously not as severe.

You don't have to feel bad!

On the other hand the vast majority of opinion I've seen online has been very positive about the ending and I don't consider it a weakness and am not moving to address it .


Edit: Even if it were the other way around I wouldn't be moving to address it as I write the stories that please me rather than attempting to please everyone else. Trying to dance to the many different tunes that are broadcast at you simultaneously is a sure way to break a leg, or at least end up looking silly...

Fair enough, I just think there are some logic/believability issues there that you would want to avoid but hey, it's your show - if the next series goes like this one I will be very happy (but I will still point out the things I find questionable ) Cheers!

[QuickTidal]

 Mark Lawrence, on 07 November 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

Edit: Even if it were the other way around I wouldn't be moving to address it as I write the stories that please me rather than attempting to please everyone else. Trying to dance to the many different tunes that are broadcast at you simultaneously is a sure way to break a leg, or at least end up looking silly...

I honestly don't think I've ever admired an author more for a statement. Kudos sir. Really well said.

[Abyss]

 QuickTidal, on 08 November 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

 Mark Lawrence, on 07 November 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

Edit: Even if it were the other way around I wouldn't be moving to address it as I write the stories that please me rather than attempting to please everyone else. Trying to dance to the many different tunes that are broadcast at you simultaneously is a sure way to break a leg, or at least end up looking silly...

...well said.

Seconded.

[Mark Lawrence]

Glad not to be battling an Erikson book this year!

https://www.goodread...tasy-books-2013

[Kaamos]

Finally got my reading started; six hours into the 1st audio book and definitely not bad. The reader has a cute accent.
Honestly, the few raggedy sentences I caught about Jorg's character beforehand made me believe I'd be following the adventures of another Angus Thermopyle, but so far this has been MUCH tamer than The Gap.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

So, am I the only one who read the first book and hated it?

I thought Jorg was an extremely shallow character, and the fact that it's supposed to be a future post-apocalyptic world? Completely thrown in there and it has no effect on the story at all, as far as I could tell from the first book. Or like, why were the necromancers under that mountain to begin with? Oh, no reason!

I could go on, but I don't remember all of the book and wouldn't want to misrepresent some parts...I just felt like it was tripe. I really don't get why everyone seems to love it.

EDIT: It sort of seems like Lawrence just had a checklist of terrible, sociopathic acts next to him while writing and wanted to shoehorn them all in to one character...

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 10 January 2014 - 07:09 PM

[Salt-Man Z]

 Whisperzzzzzzz, on 10 January 2014 - 07:07 PM, said:

So, am I the only one who read the first book and hated it?

I thought Jorg was an extremely shallow character, and the fact that it's supposed to be a future post-apocalyptic world? Completely thrown in there and it has no effect on the story at all, as far as I could tell from the first book. Or like, why were the necromancers under that mountain to begin with? Oh, no reason!

I could go on, but I don't remember all of the book and wouldn't want to misrepresent some parts...I just felt like it was tripe. I really don't get why everyone seems to love it.

EDIT: It sort of seems like Lawrence just had a checklist of terrible, sociopathic acts next to him while writing and wanted to shoehorn them all in to one character...

Most of the world-building gains a ton of importance later on, but come on, are you actually saying that the post-apocalyptic setting isn't important to

Spoiler

Jorg incinerating Castle Red with a leftover nuke?

And Jorg actually does begin developing a conscience of sorts in the second book. He receives interesting character development over the course of the trilogy. That said, I can understand why some readers wouldn't want to continue reading about him. I did, and thought the resulting trilogy was really good (but not necessarily great.)

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

 Brent-Man Weeks, on 10 January 2014 - 07:50 PM, said:

 Whisperzzzzzzz, on 10 January 2014 - 07:07 PM, said:

So, am I the only one who read the first book and hated it?

I thought Jorg was an extremely shallow character, and the fact that it's supposed to be a future post-apocalyptic world? Completely thrown in there and it has no effect on the story at all, as far as I could tell from the first book. Or like, why were the necromancers under that mountain to begin with? Oh, no reason!

I could go on, but I don't remember all of the book and wouldn't want to misrepresent some parts...I just felt like it was tripe. I really don't get why everyone seems to love it.

EDIT: It sort of seems like Lawrence just had a checklist of terrible, sociopathic acts next to him while writing and wanted to shoehorn them all in to one character...

Most of the world-building gains a ton of importance later on, but come on, are you actually saying that the post-apocalyptic setting isn't important to

Spoiler

Jorg incinerating Castle Red with a leftover nuke?

And Jorg actually does begin developing a conscience of sorts in the second book. He receives interesting character development over the course of the trilogy. That said, I can understand why some readers wouldn't want to continue reading about him. I did, and thought the resulting trilogy was really good (but not necessarily great.)

Don't get me wrong though — I don't dislike Jorg because he's a cold-hearted bastard. I love characters who are like that (Logen Ninefingers, Kellhus, etc.). I dislike him because that's all he is in the first book. So, maybe he does get better in the other books.

[worry]

It's certainly one long story that you only finished the start of.

[Traveller]

 Whisperzzzzzzz, on 10 January 2014 - 07:07 PM, said:

EDIT: It sort of seems like Lawrence just had a checklist of terrible, sociopathic acts next to him while writing and wanted to shoehorn them all in to one character...<br />

Weird, that's why I liked it. I thought we were going to get a story told from the bad guys perspective for a change. I thought that's where the trilogy was going... aiming to give a history to the oft seen 'Dark Lord' character.

I was actually a bit let down when he developed a conscience. I didn't dislike where it went... I just thought it was doing something different.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 10 January 2014 - 08:53 PM

[Abyss]

Agreed. I thought Jorg's character arc thru the three books was one of most fun i've read in a while. Sure, there are nasty elements to him, but he becomes more than that.

[QuickTidal]

 Whisperzzzzzzz, on 10 January 2014 - 07:07 PM, said:

So, am I the only one who read the first book and hated it?

I thought Jorg was an extremely shallow character, and the fact that it's supposed to be a future post-apocalyptic world? Completely thrown in there and it has no effect on the story at all, as far as I could tell from the first book. Or like, why were the necromancers under that mountain to begin with? Oh, no reason!

I could go on, but I don't remember all of the book and wouldn't want to misrepresent some parts...I just felt like it was tripe. I really don't get why everyone seems to love it.

EDIT: It sort of seems like Lawrence just had a checklist of terrible, sociopathic acts next to him while writing and wanted to shoehorn them all in to one character...

As others have noted Jorg evolves. He's still a bastard, but he's a much more tolerable and understandable bastard. The BIG thing you gotta remember is that this is a guy was was ostensibly RAISED through his formative years by a band of criminals. You'd be fucked up too if that were the case. Your moral compass would be whacked. In fact, that he grows at all out of that is astonishing considering his surroundings. It's all very important to who Jorg is, what he wants, and where he's going.

As to the setting...again as others have said you REALLY need to read the whole story before making any judgements as Salt-Man noted, a huge chunk of the reasoning behind that choice on the author's part doesn't come into true focus until book 2 and 3. It actually bears HUGE effect on the story.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 10 January 2014 - 08:51 PM

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

 QuickTidal, on 10 January 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

 Whisperzzzzzzz, on 10 January 2014 - 07:07 PM, said:

So, am I the only one who read the first book and hated it?

I thought Jorg was an extremely shallow character, and the fact that it's supposed to be a future post-apocalyptic world? Completely thrown in there and it has no effect on the story at all, as far as I could tell from the first book. Or like, why were the necromancers under that mountain to begin with? Oh, no reason!

I could go on, but I don't remember all of the book and wouldn't want to misrepresent some parts...I just felt like it was tripe. I really don't get why everyone seems to love it.

EDIT: It sort of seems like Lawrence just had a checklist of terrible, sociopathic acts next to him while writing and wanted to shoehorn them all in to one character...

As others have noted Jorg evolves. He's still a bastard, but he's a much more tolerable and understandable bastard. The BIG thing you gotta remember is that this is a guy was was ostensibly RAISED through his formative years by a band of criminals. You'd be fucked up too if that were the case. Your moral compass would be whacked. In fact, that he grows at all out of that is astonishing considering his surroundings. It's all very important to who Jorg is, what he wants, and where he's going.

As to the setting...again as others have said you REALLY need to read the whole story before making any judgements as Salt-Man noted, a huge chunk of the reasoning behind that choice on the author's part doesn't come into true focus until book 2 and 3. It actually bears HUGE effect on the story.

Ah, the age old conundrum — should I keep reading something I don't enjoy in the hopes that my effort will pay off?

Right now, I'll take this series out of the trash list and put it on the back-burner list. So, I'll read it eventually, but there's other stuff I'd rather read before.

[Mark Lawrence]

 Whisperzzzzzzz, on 11 January 2014 - 12:06 AM, said:

Ah, the age old conundrum — should I keep reading something I don't enjoy in the hopes that my effort will pay off?

My answer would be "no". If you didn't get the first book then I'd give up.

However, there is this hilarious (to me) youtube review of King of Thorns by a guy who absolutely hated Prince of Thorns

https://www.youtube....h?v=I88Ds_ah5J0

[Obdigore]

 Whisperzzzzzzz, on 10 January 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

 Brent-Man Weeks, on 10 January 2014 - 07:50 PM, said:

 Whisperzzzzzzz, on 10 January 2014 - 07:07 PM, said:

So, am I the only one who read the first book and hated it?

I thought Jorg was an extremely shallow character, and the fact that it's supposed to be a future post-apocalyptic world? Completely thrown in there and it has no effect on the story at all, as far as I could tell from the first book. Or like, why were the necromancers under that mountain to begin with? Oh, no reason!

I could go on, but I don't remember all of the book and wouldn't want to misrepresent some parts...I just felt like it was tripe. I really don't get why everyone seems to love it.

EDIT: It sort of seems like Lawrence just had a checklist of terrible, sociopathic acts next to him while writing and wanted to shoehorn them all in to one character...

Most of the world-building gains a ton of importance later on, but come on, are you actually saying that the post-apocalyptic setting isn't important to

Spoiler

Jorg incinerating Castle Red with a leftover nuke?

And Jorg actually does begin developing a conscience of sorts in the second book. He receives interesting character development over the course of the trilogy. That said, I can understand why some readers wouldn't want to continue reading about him. I did, and thought the resulting trilogy was really good (but not necessarily great.)

Don't get me wrong though — I don't dislike Jorg because he's a cold-hearted bastard. I love characters who are like that (Logen Ninefingers, Kellhus, etc.). I dislike him because that's all he is in the first book. So, maybe he does get better in the other books.

Wait Wait Wait. You compared Jorg to Ninefingers as 'cold-hearted bastards'? Really?

[Ukjent]

Ninefinger is not a good comparison, but I agree with Kellhus.

[QuickTidal]

 Graablick, on 14 January 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

Ninefinger is not a good comparison, but I agree with Kellhus.

Oh no, not remotely like Khellus!

Jorg is salvageable in the morals department...Khellus (AFAIK) was not remotely salvageable.

[Abyss]

fairly radical differences between Jorg and Kellhus once you're past the very basic 'anti-hero' element.

[champ]

It was one of the reasons why I liked this series so much, I thought Jorg was unique and couldn't really compare him to anyone else.