[Gothos]

This has been invading my thought processes lately, and I'm wondering if I'm missing something.

What, you ask? This:
When did Fiddler learn to play the fiddle?

Why does it bug me?
Well, he was a mason's apprentice before signing up, right? He does carry the fiddle around with him all his adult life, but most of the time it's in a state of disrepair that would bring any luthier worth his salt to tears - and I did use to think that his name was given due to the fiddle, not his skills... After all, as with anything, with music talent it's worth shit unless you put excruciating amount of work into honing your skill with using it.

So, in The Bonehunters, in Malaz City, Fiddler plays for Gesler and Stormy. More, he does an impressive improvisation, apparently swinging moods effortlessly (at least disregarding the emotional aspect) and reaching astounding effects on his small yet remarkable audience.

This just bugs me.



When and where did Fiddler learn how to play?

[Ulrik]

Boooring long nights when other mason apprentices went to brothels, pubs and Hood´s temples, Fiddler learned beautiful art of playing on fiddles. And during booooring long nights when other recruits went to brothels, pubs and Hood´s temples, Fiddler mastered art of playing on fiddles.

But when he learned playing with Deck of Dragons?

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

Ulrik, on 05 April 2011 - 10:21 AM, said:

But when he learned playing with Deck of Dragons?

Tattersail commented as early as GotM that he seems to have a rare "natural talent" with those infamous "feelings" that he gets all the time. I'm assuming the talent with reading the Deck sprung from that rather than any, ah, mundane learning.

We could always say that his mysterious talent extends to allowing him to tap into the dramatic nature of a scene to provide perfect film-score music for the nature of other events going on around him

This post has been edited by POOPOO MCBUMFACE: 05 April 2011 - 10:30 AM

[D'rek]

In WJ's story about the origins of the BBs in MoI, I believe he says that Hedge had broken his fiddle and also that he couldn't play but had always planned on learning. So I posit that when he signed up for the army (after his masoning days) he had his first fiddle which he couldn't yet play. Having it in the trek through Raraku, even if he couldn't play it, got him the moniker Fiddler from WJ. Then in the decades following that until tBH he gradually taught himself to play (and maybe even took a few lessons when the BBs were in cities - you know "teach me the fiddle or I shove this sharper up your ass"), as well as going through an endless cycle of buying new fiddles and breaking them on the march.

[Rysto]

D, on 05 April 2011 - 02:11 PM, said:

In WJ's story about the origins of the BBs in MoI, I believe he says that Hedge had broken his fiddle and also that he couldn't play but had always planned on learning. So I posit that when he signed up for the army (after his masoning days) he had his first fiddle which he couldn't yet play. Having it in the trek through Raraku, even if he couldn't play it, got him the moniker Fiddler from WJ. Then in the decades following that until tBH he gradually taught himself to play (and maybe even took a few lessons when the BBs were in cities - you know "teach me the fiddle or I shove this sharper up your ass"), as well as going through an endless cycle of buying new fiddles and breaking them on the march.

This doesn't work. In tBH, just before Fiddler starts playing there's the following exchange:

Quote

"I know," Fiddler said. "Braven Tooth, you remember the last time I played--"

"That was the last time?"

I would bet that Fiddler earned his name that last time that he played.

[worry]

We know BT isn't the one who named Fiddler, but your info still might be pertinent -- he was still obviously there the last time he played. And we should also take it for granted, perhaps, that the last time Fiddler played was also a time of upheaval, even tragedy. The big events that come to mind are Dassem's death, the usurpation of the empire by Laseen (and what happened to WJ and Dujek as a result), the Imass at Aren, and -- my bet -- the slaughter in Mouse Quarter. I'd go for that one because there's some twisted symmetry with the BB's and the BH's respective visits to Malaz City, BT was very likely to be around the city then, and I can see Fiddler not wanting to play throughout the BB's ordeal on Genebackis. We kiiiiinda know that Raraku happened a longer time ago than we first suspect, as if that adventure has instilled some life-lengthening properties to the BBs even this far before their ascension. So I think it's post-Raraku, and not too far from what Ulrik suggests, though we know Hedge and Fid did plenty of partying and whoring together too.

So I think he got named Fiddler long before he could play, and so before the moment Braven Tooth mentions, but he grew into his name along the way too.

This post has been edited by worrywort: 05 April 2011 - 11:39 PM

[nacht]

Interesting. Fiddle also means to manipulate, especially with intent to cheat. He is especially good at cheating death and also at manipulating games.
Maybe he got the name because he was a manipulative, restless kid and then took up the fiddle to reinforce the brand.

[Abyss]

Braven Tooth's comment could mean a lot of things.

I'm with D'rek. Somewhere between the MoI Raraku flashback and TB, Fiddler got someone to teach him how to play, and had an occasion to play (perhaps badly) with BT there.

[Harvester]

worrywort, on 05 April 2011 - 11:37 PM, said:

We know BT isn't the one who named Fiddler

Do we?

[MTS]

Harvester, on 06 April 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

worrywort, on 05 April 2011 - 11:37 PM, said:

We know BT isn't the one who named Fiddler

Do we?

We do.

Quote

'Well I can't now, can I? It's broke. But once the war's done I'll get it fixed, won't I?'
Whiskeyjack sighed. 'Return to your position, sir Fiddler, and not another sound from you, understood?'
'One thing, sir. I got a bad feeling...about...about all of this.'
'You're not alone in that, soldier.'
'Well, uh, it's just that—'
'Commander!' the soldier named Hedge called out, nudging his mount forward. 'The lad's hunches, sir, they ain't missed yet. He told Sergeant Nubber not to drink from that jug, but Nubber did anyway, and now he's dead, sir.'
'Poisoned?'
'No, sir. A dead lizard. Got stuck in his throat. Nubber choked to death on a dead lizard! Hey, Fiddler - a good name, that. Fiddler. Hah!'
'Gods,' Whiskeyjack breathed. 'Enough.' He faced Kalam again. 'Ride on.'

This post has been edited by MTS: 06 April 2011 - 03:33 PM

[Harvester]

Ah nice, thanks!

[Itkovian]

To add another wrench in the works, keep in mind that Fiddler could have just lied about not knowing how to play the fiddle. Might be he learned it at an early age, and just wanted it kept a secret.

Let's face it, in this series we should not expect anyone to be scrupulously honest... even when they're the narrators.

Itkovian

This post has been edited by Itkovian: 13 April 2011 - 03:38 PM

[Neffarias Muffins]

Itkovian, on 13 April 2011 - 03:38 PM, said:

To add another wrench in the works, keep in mind that Fiddler could have just lied about not knowing how to play the fiddle. Might be he learned it at an early age, and just wanted it kept a secret.

Let's face it, in this series we should not expect anyone to be scrupulously honest... even when they're the narrators.

Itkovian

ESPECIALLY if they're the narrators. If there's anything I've learned from reading a Steven Erikson fiction series, it's that his narrators are FREQUENTLY untrustworthy.

[Mott]

It always pained me to read how he would lug around his fiddle with him, through deserts and fighting and the like...what did it do to warrant so much abuse? My cousin just having a go on my fiddle would cause it to go badly out of tune as would changes in temperature, slight bumps etc. It's out of tune now and it's not been getting manhandled at all!

I assume he did learn to play at some point though, he'd need at least some kind of practice to produce a semi-decent sound, he could have been lying but who'd want to lie about when they learned the fiddle? Would be a strange thing to lie about. The other implications of the name are interesting though, Hedge and Fiddler did make a point of fiddling with the deck of dragons to fiddle the other soldiers out of their money after all.

[Neffarias Muffins]

Mott, on 14 April 2011 - 09:26 PM, said:

It always pained me to read how he would lug around his fiddle with him, through deserts and fighting and the like...what did it do to warrant so much abuse? My cousin just having a go on my fiddle would cause it to go badly out of tune as would changes in temperature, slight bumps etc. It's out of tune now and it's not been getting manhandled at all!

I assume he did learn to play at some point though, he'd need at least some kind of practice to produce a semi-decent sound, he could have been lying but who'd want to lie about when they learned the fiddle? Would be a strange thing to lie about. The other implications of the name are interesting though, Hedge and Fiddler did make a point of fiddling with the deck of dragons to fiddle the other soldiers out of their money after all.

Coming (as many of you do, I suspect) from a roleplaying background, the fiddle makes for an interesting character dynamic. A world-weary soldier is an archetype. A world-weary soldier with a fiddle on his back is a CHARACTER.

I can almost see SE as he rolled up this character.