[MillionSpots]

I skimmed through TBh and found another instance of QB rubbing (and later scratching at) his face:

Quote

'What in Hood's name are you going on about, Quick?'
'Sorry. With her [Tavore], you asked.' He paused, rubbed at his face. 'Things are going to get ugly.'
'I know that! That's why I'm asking, idiot!'
'Calm down. No reason to panic--'
'Isn't there?'
Quick Ben shifted from rubbing his face to scratching it, then he pulled his hands away and blinked tearily at the assassin. 'Look what's happening to me, and it's all your damned fault.'
'Mine?'
'Well, it's somebody's, is what I'm saying. You're here so it might as well be you, Kal.'

Interesting how he 'changes' in this passage. He seems so confident at first...

This post has been edited by MillionSpots: 18 July 2011 - 03:46 AM

[Gatekeeper]

That was an awesome catch MS.!

[Daemonwolf]

Its been really interesting reading through this topic. I dunno, but given the multiple theories about who/what Quick Ben really is, I personally think SE's quote about the books not providing enough information for us to determine Quick's true nature still holds true.

The face-rubbing/fidgeting thing I dont think I recall seeing as happening till after he went head to head with Icarium. A fight that afterwards he described himself as feeling stretched somehow (dont remember exactly) This leads my thoughts wondering to "What exactly does he mean by feeling 'stretched'? Did his frantic attempt to keep Icarium from killing him make him far exceed the 'power' his body could handle, but the extra souls inside him kept him from burning out? But also left his mind exhausted, since about that time he stops being as sly and clever and really starts just bringing the power.

The whole soletaken thing is also interesting, but I honestly dont see SE writing something so simple into Quick Ben. No one has ever confirmed he had more than a 'whiff' of soletaken to him, Could he possibly be something else, i sometimes wonder.... SE isn't exactly the most conventional writer. If he doesn't think we have the information to know who/what Quick is, I have a sense it'll be something out of left field.

The only other thing I'm curious about, is the sceptre. If I'm not mistaken, the reference about 'if he wants it, he'll have to come get it' seems directed to Nimander, and possibly something we will learn more about in the Kharkanas Trilogy...


just my two cents...

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

He does the face-rubbing thing at least once in GotM, was checking for it when I re-read.

[Gatekeeper]

Anyone else get the feeling that when QB was retrieving the Scepter, all the other baubles and shit that fell out of the rotted sack were his collection of "shaved knuckles" like the acorns? I felt like they represented a lifetime of secret "outs" that he had compiled, and the Spar was like "home base" that he always left a string attached to.

[Blueiron]

Verrry interesting, all this stuff. I think that one of the underlying mysteries with all this QB mumbojumbo is the apparant link between Shadow and Dark. QB was once a highly ranked priest of shadow, and he must have been so even before the emporors time. (If it weren't for the fact that the timeline is not important, is not important, I would say that that meant he was still after in order for shadowthrone to personally have been betrayed, or else he left at the time of the emporor's asenscion) Furthermore, as someone else pointed out, There is a very sizable fragment of Kurald Emurlahn in Raraku: even discounting the Whirlwind, (which moves and may or may not have even been there yet), Tremorlor held a large fragment in place quite nearby. And yet! The ritual of soulshifting is explicitly stated to require Elder Kurald Galain, and in tCG, he has a large stash of mysterious objects who's functions are never explained hidden away at the Spar of Andii, right next to chaos. What's the link? I have a crazy idea: Chaos. Emurlahn is drifting about through Chaos, and, if I understand rightly, borders Chaos at its frayed edges. The spar of Andii is also right next to Chaos, and Kurald Galain is often sited as being the first manifestation of order out of Chaos. Furthermore, shapeshifting is said to be a ritual that borders on Chaos. QB is able to pass between warrens at some point (DG? GotM?) as all the "usual paths" were bound to be "tripwired." I believe he creates a path through Chaos to do so. Shadowthrone later calls on him to fight Icarium, who is an open gate into Chaos in his enraged state. Finally, in tCG, he dives head-first into chaos, and turns up who knows how at Deadhouse to pick up Kalam. (the Azath are a topic for another day ) (also there was a recent incursion of chaos into shadow - the rent in RotCG and Stonewielder)
What does all this mean in my crazy, crazy mind? Well, for starters it might mean that his "shapeshifter scent" might be just something that smells a bit like shapeshifting, since it's so close to chaos. It may even be a direct result of soulshifting.

Quote fu on some of these things shall be forthcoming at a later time, but I can't look up any of the RotCG stuff since I don't own the book.

TLDR? Anything is possible when your mage smells like Chaos-Spice, and not like a lady.

EDIT Quote Fu will not be forthcoming since my brother (who actually owns the copy of GotM that I "use") has lent it out.

This post has been edited by Blueiron: 03 September 2011 - 04:40 AM

[champ]

I had notied this on my reread and never got around to posting it...

The Sceptre gets it's mention on the Light side of things a bit... with Aparal...

Quote

Father Light, is this what you want? What was in your mind when you walked out from the city, through the gate that would be named for the day of your wedding, for your procession's path into into the realm of Dark? Did you ever imagine that you would bring about the end of the world?
Take the Sceptre in hand. Walk to the Throne. There is an old saying: every crown leaves a circle of blood...

Quote

The power massing behind him made Aparal tremble. This assault would sweep aside the humans. Up and into the forest beyond. To the city itself. The palace splashed in blood. The Son of Light triumphant upon the Throne, Sceptre in hand.
And if Mother Dark dwelt in the temple, they would kill her.
We will not be stopped. Not this time.

And then back with Sand...

Quote

An alliance of the defeated, of the fleeing. They would open a gate leading into another realm. They would find a place of peace, of healing. No throne to fight over, no Sceptre to wield, no crown to cut the brow. They would take us there.

Intriguing! Roll on the Khark. novels!

[Blueiron]

I personally thought all the business with scepters was just because it's a symbol of power. Why not pick out the word crown instead? If Quick has somehow stashed away an article of the kind of power I think you're suggesting, wouldn't someone have noticed its absense? Poeple are always talking about missing thrones, but mentions of scepters always seem almost metaphorical to me.

[Sinisdar Toste]

 Blueiron, on 11 September 2011 - 05:05 PM, said:

I personally thought all the business with scepters was just because it's a symbol of power. Why not pick out the word crown instead? If Quick has somehow stashed away an article of the kind of power I think you're suggesting, wouldn't someone have noticed its absense? Poeple are always talking about missing thrones, but mentions of scepters always seem almost metaphorical to me.

Quick does have a sceptre, and it is powerful, as you can see in tCG when he uses it to conjure a horse out of pure KG stuff. i don't think there's anything symbolic or metaphorical about it. i'm sure that plenty of people would have noticed if it went missing, but i think they might have been more focused on the devastating civil wars and the sundering of realms that was going on. in fact, the missing sceptre may have been a factor in sandalath's inability to deal with the past, though this is pure conjecture. it just seems like the throne and the sceptre are intrinsically linked.

"take the sceptre in hand, walk to the throne."

[champ]

 Sinisdar Toste, on 11 September 2011 - 08:59 PM, said:

 Blueiron, on 11 September 2011 - 05:05 PM, said:

I personally thought all the business with scepters was just because it's a symbol of power. Why not pick out the word crown instead? If Quick has somehow stashed away an article of the kind of power I think you're suggesting, wouldn't someone have noticed its absense? Poeple are always talking about missing thrones, but mentions of scepters always seem almost metaphorical to me.

Quick does have a sceptre, and it is powerful, as you can see in tCG when he uses it to conjure a horse out of pure KG stuff. i don't think there's anything symbolic or metaphorical about it. i'm sure that plenty of people would have noticed if it went missing, but i think they might have been more focused on the devastating civil wars and the sundering of realms that was going on. in fact, the missing sceptre may have been a factor in sandalath's inability to deal with the past, though this is pure conjecture. it just seems like the throne and the sceptre are intrinsically linked.

"take the sceptre in hand, walk to the throne."

Agree with Sinisdar here, if it was just a symbol of power and nothing more, why would Quick bother to go to the Spear to collect it considering he had no part to play in the Kharkanas side of the story!

It was put into the story for a reason... I'd be suprised if SE just put it in as filler...

[IgnatiusKruppe]

I love when Dapple says that she'd live a life without fear if she never saw Quick Ben again.

I also love the way Hedge & Ben's conversation around that time goes, when Hedge calls him a soletaken and asks another question
and Ben gives one answer. SE you sly dog.

[Blueiron]

 Sinisdar Toste, on 11 September 2011 - 08:59 PM, said:

 Blueiron, on 11 September 2011 - 05:05 PM, said:

I personally thought all the business with scepters was just because it's a symbol of power. Why not pick out the word crown instead? If Quick has somehow stashed away an article of the kind of power I think you're suggesting, wouldn't someone have noticed its absense? Poeple are always talking about missing thrones, but mentions of scepters always seem almost metaphorical to me.

Quick does have a sceptre, and it is powerful, as you can see in tCG when he uses it to conjure a horse out of pure KG stuff. i don't think there's anything symbolic or metaphorical about it. i'm sure that plenty of people would have noticed if it went missing, but i think they might have been more focused on the devastating civil wars and the sundering of realms that was going on. in fact, the missing sceptre may have been a factor in sandalath's inability to deal with the past, though this is pure conjecture. it just seems like the throne and the sceptre are intrinsically linked.

"take the sceptre in hand, walk to the throne."

Oh, I won't argue there's something powerful about that specific scepter, I'm just saying that it isn't necessarily one of many such scepters (in the same way as there are many powerful thrones) and that many of the uses of the word "scepter" may be symbolic. Many mortal empires use thrones and scepters without any particular power invested in them. Furthermore, power can be invested in any object, as quick shows with his pebbles and acorns, and the choice of a scepter in that one case could be coincidental.

NB: I am, as always, prepared to be wrong.

[Sinisdar Toste]

 Blueiron, on 17 September 2011 - 08:48 PM, said:

 Sinisdar Toste, on 11 September 2011 - 08:59 PM, said:

 Blueiron, on 11 September 2011 - 05:05 PM, said:

I personally thought all the business with scepters was just because it's a symbol of power. Why not pick out the word crown instead? If Quick has somehow stashed away an article of the kind of power I think you're suggesting, wouldn't someone have noticed its absense? Poeple are always talking about missing thrones, but mentions of scepters always seem almost metaphorical to me.

Quick does have a sceptre, and it is powerful, as you can see in tCG when he uses it to conjure a horse out of pure KG stuff. i don't think there's anything symbolic or metaphorical about it. i'm sure that plenty of people would have noticed if it went missing, but i think they might have been more focused on the devastating civil wars and the sundering of realms that was going on. in fact, the missing sceptre may have been a factor in sandalath's inability to deal with the past, though this is pure conjecture. it just seems like the throne and the sceptre are intrinsically linked.

"take the sceptre in hand, walk to the throne."

Oh, I won't argue there's something powerful about that specific scepter, I'm just saying that it isn't necessarily one of many such scepters (in the same way as there are many powerful thrones) and that many of the uses of the word "scepter" may be symbolic. Many mortal empires use thrones and scepters without any particular power invested in them. Furthermore, power can be invested in any object, as quick shows with his pebbles and acorns, and the choice of a scepter in that one case could be coincidental.

NB: I am, as always, prepared to be wrong.

ok, now i get your point. i agree that there probably isn't a range of sceptre's associated with every throne. personally, i think sceptre's as powerful artifacts are associated mainly with the tiste. wouldn't it be interesting if we found out that sceptre in the deck of dragons represent tiste royalty? i wonder, if you gathered all the times sceptre appeared in a reading, what might we see...

[Sergeant_Kalam]

 Sciz, on 20 April 2011 - 06:50 PM, said:

Alright. But Rake never mentions recognizing him, anyways.

To be fair Rake recognized that Paran had walked in Dragnipur and freed 2 Hounds of Shadows yet showed no knowledge of that when they first met. I think Rake is just a taciturn bastard who doesn't reveal his knowledge unless he has to. Like QB

[AnomanderRakeSoD]

Could Quick Ben be.... Drethdenan, Vanut Degalla, Hish Tulla and Manalle all rolled into one?

[Azathmaster]

Quote

'What in Hood's name are you going on about, Quick?'
'Sorry. With her [Tavore], you asked.' He paused, rubbed at his face. 'Things are going to get ugly.'
'I know that! That's why I'm asking, idiot!'
'Calm down. No reason to panic--'
'Isn't there?'
Quick Ben shifted from rubbing his face to scratching it, then he pulled his hands away and blinked tearily at the assassin. 'Look what's happening to me, and it's all your damned fault.'
'Mine?'
'Well, it's somebody's, is what I'm saying. You're here so it might as well be you, Kal.'

This passage seems important. I think what he's saying that the other souls are now fighting for dominance over him and he is resisting, and its Kalams fault for leading WJ and the BB through Raraku chasing him causing the soul shifting stuff. At the end he backtracks to throw Kalam and readers off the track so we dont think anything on the lines of my theory.

[Ben Delat]

you assume quick had nothing to do with karkhanas, and at this point you would have no reason to think otherwise with what we have been told so far....but....


we know quick has sat with elder gods and powers before, we know he has a relation to Kurald Galain as non-Andii people are not supposed to be able to use it without blood sacrifice since it is elder, but Quick can use it easily just like his other warrens. IMO quicks soletaken form is an aside, the real transformation and rubbing of the face comments are from him being like L'oric, appearing human to everyone while he is actually part or whole tiste, i think the rubbing of the face is when maintaining the guise becomes harder.


Only problem with my theory there is his childhood and sister, I dont think he would have known to or been able to maintain a guise back then. Which leads me to thinking maybe one of the souls within him is part andii or something. We do know of several others characters, mostly claw, who have part andii blood(topper, pearl)

This post has been edited by Ben Delat: 17 January 2012 - 03:36 PM

[Sinisdar Toste]

 Ben Delat, on 16 January 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

you assume quick had nothing to do with karkhanas, and at this point you would have no reason to think otherwise with what we have been told so far....but....


we know quick has sat with elder gods and powers before, we know he has a relation to Kurald Galain as non-Andii people are not supposed to be able to use it without blood sacrifice since it is elder, but Quick can use it easily just like his other warrens. IMO quicks soletaken form is an aside, the real transformation and rubbing of the face comments are from him being like L'oric, appearing human to everyone while he is actually part or whole tiste, i think the rubbing of the face is when maintaining the guise becomes harder.


Only problem with my theory there is his childhood and sister, I dont think he would have known to or been able to maintain a guide back then. Which leads me to thinking maybe one of the souls within him is part andii or something. We do know of several others characters, mostly claw, who have part andii blood(topper, pearl)

or one of the souls itself could have been an andii impersonating a member of a holy falah'd's cadre

[Silk]

or alternatively it may even be a case of QB's Sister is also ancient.... we never quite got the date when his wolf walking nightmare happened...... Then again there is a case for the timeline not being important and wolverine having all the answers ;o)

This post has been edited by Silk: 17 January 2012 - 02:28 PM

[Lady Bliss]

I posted this on a different thread, but QB didn't stick around long enough after rescuing his sister for her to SEE him. I think it's possible that Ben Delat is just another soul in the body.