[Ampelas]

hmm
I could see the Barghast thing. That Omtose vote really looked like an attempt to stall the momentum.

[Barghast]

I deflected off of the HP lynch for one reason: He was a relatively high poster getting speedlynched on a Ruse case. He built up to 4 votes almost instantly. I HATE poorly-executed speed lynches, especially when they are in response to another threatened lynch (Omtose in this case).

If you're considering me or Kalse, I'd obviously say Kalse, but my earlier look at Kalse made me think he was more trustworthy than the other guy I looked into, Korabas. If I don't vote GL, I would be hard-pressed to vote for anyone else than Korabas.

[Barghast]

And Liosan, it's a poor case to try and say that Omtose wasn't modkilled and thus he had to be lying... first off, it's Spycraft, "RI" is relative. Second-off, it's like someone else said earlier... claiming RI is like claiming "town" basically.

[Path-Shaper]

This has been asked by PM, and since it now rears its ugly head on thread:

I'm not going to mod-kill anyone for saying they are RI. In any town versus scum, that would be what everyone pretends to be anyhow and thus has zero value. What I will do is mod-kill anyone who says they are RI and post part of an RI PM on thread (or any PM that is their own or mine, for that matter).

[Barghast]

^ Wasn't me but glad I got confirmation =p

[Liosan]

Barghast, on 17 March 2011 - 05:38 PM, said:

And Liosan, it's a poor case to try and say that Omtose wasn't modkilled and thus he had to be lying... first off, it's Spycraft, "RI" is relative. Second-off, it's like someone else said earlier... claiming RI is like claiming "town" basically.

I wasn't making a case >.>;

Anyway, PS cleared it up. So it's all good.

Also, What exactly is a " Poorly excecuted speed lynch" ? The fact of the matter is that HP had done more suspicious things than Omtose had. At, least thats what people on thread thought. He got lynched for it. Regardless of your motivations, you were deflecting from a target whose CF was suspicious at best. There is no getting around that.

[Galayn Lord]

Agreed that it's largely WIFOM with the HP vote, though the obfuscation stinks of a scum ability, and I'm fairly confident that we did in fact get a scum there.

With regards to Barghast, his behaviour has indeed become increasingly suspicious. I was initially concerned after he was able to swing 3 subsequent votes over against Fener (a concern which I have expressed numerous times already, though no one else seemed to share it), in addition to his own, which, as I've stated before, I believe is what proved to be decisive in getting her voted out (despite claiming to be unhappy about the initial 4 vote Fener train, he later adds new momentum to the train, bringing in the final 3 votes, see the first two quotes below). Now it comes out that not only did he vote for Osseric yesterday, an RI for whom there was initially (but by day 2's end more or less nonexistant) momentum to vote out, but he was engaged in some massive deflection away from HP onto Omtose. Suspicious for sure.

And he also seems to be all over the place with his comments on my humble self, starting with wanting to blame me, than going out of his way to convince people not to be concerned by me, and now swinging back to wanting to vote me out.

Barghast, on 15 March 2011 - 06:22 PM, said:

Hrm hrm hrm... I think I want to vote for GL or HP, because it's one thing to hahaha joke vote on Fener, it's another to turn it into a full-blow train at 3 or 4 votes.

Barghast, on 16 March 2011 - 05:01 PM, said:

Another thing to consider is that a lot of the animosity toward Ampelas is geared toward the fact that he posts a lot. Ampelas and GL aren't really responsible for railroading Fener. They started it, but all Day 1 trains start somewhere. It's the people that turn it into a train that are the most suspicious and Osseric filled that role nicely. He has the fewest posts of people left in the game and hasn't offered more than this vote for Fener and an eventual "meh" reaction to it, later.

He also accused Omtose of being a noob.

In the interest of keeping things going.

Vote Osseric

So, here we have him upset with the initial train which he squarely blames myself and Amp for, but than wait, we aren't actually responsible for it, but rather it are those who turn those initial votes into a train that are responsible. While he tries to blame Osseric, imo, Barghast is actually the one who turned the initial train, which I still believe was really just a set of joke votes (and had lost a LOT of momentum by the time he laid out his speech), into a full blown lynch.

Barghast, on 16 March 2011 - 06:28 PM, said:

Also, in regards to GL's coding, the rules are pretty specific... if you code something on-thread and someone is able to break it on-thread, you are mod-killed. I'd be pretty surprised if he's doing anything more than adding some spice to his posts.

Barghast, on 16 March 2011 - 10:52 PM, said:

Korabas doesn't have many posts and most of them were from the Day 1 spam. He does seem to have a general dislike of GL, though.

Korabas, on 14 March 2011 - 04:45 PM, said:

Galayn Lord, on 14 March 2011 - 04:09 PM, said:

I go out walkin'
After midnight
Out in Malaysia
Just like we used to do...

Doesn't this post just scream. This isn't a code don't look at this.

He indicated he might vote for Fener on Day 1 but missed voting entirely. He came on long after the lynch.

Korabas, on 15 March 2011 - 02:31 PM, said:

If it is more possible for a thread to degenerate to less then spam. This thread has done it. I think that we should all give our selves a round of applause.

Now we don't have anything resembling a defense from Fener so I will most likely vote for him in a few hours.

Again, focuses onto GL.

Korabas, on 16 March 2011 - 11:43 AM, said:

Ok I'm here for all of one minute. I can't say to much about the fener lynch other then what has already been said. I didn't figure that Fener was D'rek, although if I remember right she said that she didn't really have time to play. But the lack of any defense from her or from anyone else. I suppose that at least one person would have known who she was. But I could be mistaken. When i get time I am going to look at the train. Right now agree with Omtose that GL is acting like a symp. I am just not sure for whom yet.

So, in the middle of day 2, his sentiments on me are that I simply tried to add some spice to my earlier posts, but otherwise I'm not really particularly suspicious, though just a few short hours later in that same day, when the only thing that has changed is a growing belief in Omtose's innocence and HP's scummines (which I am confident in), we have a complete about face as it appears like there is actually some momentum to lynch HP:

Barghast, on 17 March 2011 - 06:11 AM, said:

Ruse speaks... GL and Ampelas listen? How many people has GL followed along this game? It's 4 to 4 Omtose/HP I think... I could push either to 5.

Barghast, on 17 March 2011 - 06:42 AM, said:

Well, I don't think voting HP is the right move here.

Ruse voted HP for 1) Defending Ampelas (who was being brought up as a lynch target by GL), 2) Discussing scum and finders with Rashan, and 3) Voting for Omtose suspiciously.

I really feel like GL is constantly at the heart of a lot of these matters... and in a sense, Ruse's vote only serves as a long-winded method of trying to cover up GL's activities (it's basically attacking HP for attacking GL for attacking Amp). I think Ampelas has done enough with his swing vote here that has pushed the vote to a 4-4 standoff that it's unlikely he's tied to HP as Ruse is implying is possible.

Combine that with the idea that a "swing" of votes to HP is just fishy.

Remove Vote
Vote Omtose

Just seems like the best move at this point.

Barghast, on 17 March 2011 - 04:12 PM, said:

Well crap, I've thrown my entire logic off with this reading fail. Yes, I was the only one to vote Osseric, but I'm not sure why that would mean I would have killed him. A lot of people said he was slightly scummy.

This is about the time where I'm thinking of voting out GL... that guy's fingers are in every sticky mess we find.

Barghast, on 17 March 2011 - 05:33 PM, said:

I deflected off of the HP lynch for one reason: He was a relatively high poster getting speedlynched on a Ruse case. He built up to 4 votes almost instantly. I HATE poorly-executed speed lynches, especially when they are in response to another threatened lynch (Omtose in this case).

If you're considering me or Kalse, I'd obviously say Kalse, but my earlier look at Kalse made me think he was more trustworthy than the other guy I looked into, Korabas. If I don't vote GL, I would be hard-pressed to vote for anyone else than Korabas.

Anyways, I'm detecting quite a bit of deflection again, this time away from himself and onto me instead.

So, to take Liosan's earlier advice about voting,

Vote Barghast

Edit: Typos and clarification

This post has been edited by Galayn Lord: 17 March 2011 - 07:09 PM

[Liosan]

I just want to know what a properly excecuted speedlynch is. I guess he is ok with those

EDIT : Smiley

This post has been edited by Liosan: 17 March 2011 - 06:13 PM

[Barghast]

Liosan, on 17 March 2011 - 06:04 PM, said:

Barghast, on 17 March 2011 - 05:38 PM, said:

And Liosan, it's a poor case to try and say that Omtose wasn't modkilled and thus he had to be lying... first off, it's Spycraft, "RI" is relative. Second-off, it's like someone else said earlier... claiming RI is like claiming "town" basically.

I wasn't making a case >.>;

Anyway, PS cleared it up. So it's all good.

Also, What exactly is a " Poorly excecuted speed lynch" ? The fact of the matter is that HP had done more suspicious things than Omtose had. At, least thats what people on thread thought. He got lynched for it. Regardless of your motivations, you were deflecting from a target whose CF was suspicious at best. There is no getting around that.

A poorly executed speed lynch is a speed lynch on someone that wasn't likely to get lynched in the first place, based upon shaky information (in this case, a Ruse case that garnered rave reviews).

edit: to clarify, a proper speed lynch is one that is done solely for the purpose of getting a lynch, like at the end of Day 1 and nobody has more than a vote or two and everyone online just picks someone and votes 'em off in the interest of moving the game forward.

This post has been edited by Barghast: 17 March 2011 - 06:23 PM

[Galayn Lord]

It is not as though the case against omtose was much stronger. Hell, if anything that was actually a weaker case than the one against HP. Ruse was merely the first to iterate what most of us were no doubt thinking after those last few posts by HP, and I think the results do seem to suggest that it was the correct way to go.

[Barghast]

GL, I think hearing the word "suspicious" from you is one of those moments where I have to do a double-take. You've got your hands in more honey pots than the rest of us combined. YOU voted Omtose early for being overly defensive and then knee jerked to HP after the Ruse case because Omtose's lynch was stalling out.

[Barghast]

Also, I am NOT going to buy into the idea that HP's mysterious death is a clear indication of his scuminess. Honestly, it would be a perfect storm to drop a load of confusion like that from an early lynch.. it completely alters the way people think about his lynch. A lot of people here are buying into the idea that the confusion helps scum, ergo he must be scum... this is true, but that confusion is perfect for a non-scum, lynch, too... possibly even better since it distracts the thread.

[Liosan]

Barghast, on 17 March 2011 - 06:22 PM, said:

Liosan, on 17 March 2011 - 06:04 PM, said:

Barghast, on 17 March 2011 - 05:38 PM, said:

And Liosan, it's a poor case to try and say that Omtose wasn't modkilled and thus he had to be lying... first off, it's Spycraft, "RI" is relative. Second-off, it's like someone else said earlier... claiming RI is like claiming "town" basically.

I wasn't making a case >.>;

Anyway, PS cleared it up. So it's all good.

Also, What exactly is a " Poorly excecuted speed lynch" ? The fact of the matter is that HP had done more suspicious things than Omtose had. At, least thats what people on thread thought. He got lynched for it. Regardless of your motivations, you were deflecting from a target whose CF was suspicious at best. There is no getting around that.

A poorly executed speed lynch is a speed lynch on someone that wasn't likely to get lynched in the first place, based upon shaky information (in this case, a Ruse case that garnered rave reviews).

edit: to clarify, a proper speed lynch is one that is done solely for the purpose of getting a lynch, like at the end of Day 1 and nobody has more than a vote or two and everyone online just picks someone and votes 'em off in the interest of moving the game forward.

For the Record, A case for HP had been made before Ruse even posted. I had mentioned his vote and run was VERY suspicious, and earlier in the day had put him on my watch list for his position on the Fener train. (along with Osseric). Why you so vehemetly feel that HP is/was inno is beyond me. I infact expressed an interest in changing to HP before I left for bed. Ruse then came on and swayed those that were still around. Now, i am not saying Omtose was inno by any stretch, but to me, the case on HP was just as good, if not more founded, than the case on Omtose.

[Liosan]

Barghast, on 17 March 2011 - 06:32 PM, said:

Also, I am NOT going to buy into the idea that HP's mysterious death is a clear indication of his scuminess. Honestly, it would be a perfect storm to drop a load of confusion like that from an early lynch.. it completely alters the way people think about his lynch. A lot of people here are buying into the idea that the confusion helps scum, ergo he must be scum... this is true, but that confusion is perfect for a non-scum, lynch, too... possibly even better since it distracts the thread.

This is true and I had thought about that. BUT, if it was a scum ability to be used on an inno CF how would it go about being activated? Do the scum have to put it in as a day action? If so it was meant to cover Omtose's death as he was at L-1 and this is an iron man game where all actions can only be submitted once. You have to assume that at the point Omtose was at L-1 most actions were in. So we are left with:

HP was Scum and had an ability that covered his CF
HP was inno and a scum ability meant for Omtose was used on HP after the crazy turn around.

Of the both options, option one seems more likely.

[Galayn Lord]

Barghast, on 17 March 2011 - 06:28 PM, said:

GL, I think hearing the word "suspicious" from you is one of those moments where I have to do a double-take. You've got your hands in more honey pots than the rest of us combined. YOU voted Omtose early for being overly defensive and then knee jerked to HP after the Ruse case because Omtose's lynch was stalling out.

The Omtose lynch was not stalling out at any point. Go back and take a look at the vote history. There was a (somewhat lengthy) point when Omtose had 6 votes on him (including your very late switch to him, I should add), whereupon I could have quite easily switched my vote back to him, as well as an also lengthy duration when Omtose votes easily outnumbered those for HP, with several undecided's leaning towards Omtose instead. Indeed, even Ampelas voted for Omtose initially, which occurred a bit after I had switched my vote to HP. The easier thing to do would have been to stick with Omtose, of that there is no question.

Seriously, go read through the sequence of events a pay attention to the votes, at no time was Omtose's vote "stalled," it even appeared almost inevitable still up towards the end there. That was actually one of the reasons for my vote change, as I had a growing sense of dread at voting out another innocent, while, whereas HP's posts had become ridiculously suspicious.

[Path-Shaper]

Iron Man counts only for submitting actions, not for instant resolution.

[Barghast]

@Liosan, I think it was a scum ability, don't get me wrong. But you have to think of this from a scum POV. You only get one action a phase. If the scum have several possible day actions, why not use an action like the smoke bomb? Maybe they get one or two uses of it all game and it was a level 0 ability? Why not just use it now because you know you're about to level up and then you'll want to use other, more powerful abilities? That could have been submitted very early in the day.

Also, I never said HP was inno, just that it was a poorly conceived lynch.


@GL, Omtose did stall out for a long time... at 4 votes. Then Ruse and some of you brought HP to 4.

[Ruse]

Barghast, on 17 March 2011 - 08:00 PM, said:

@Liosan, I think it was a scum ability, don't get me wrong. But you have to think of this from a scum POV. You only get one action a phase. If the scum have several possible day actions, why not use an action like the smoke bomb? Maybe they get one or two uses of it all game and it was a level 0 ability? Why not just use it now because you know you're about to level up and then you'll want to use other, more powerful abilities? That could have been submitted very early in the day.

Also, I never said HP was inno, just that it was a poorly conceived lynch.


@GL, Omtose did stall out for a long time... at 4 votes. Then Ruse and some of you brought HP to 4.

For most of the thread I've felt Barghast has played pretty clean, but recently I feel like contradictions are cropping up in his posts. I'll need to review this more thoroughly later, but:

The Omtose lynch definitely did not stall out. HP put Omtose to L-2 before going to bed and I came on not too long after and voted for HP. At that point we had at least two or three people on - some who hadn't even voted AT ALL yet - and I said specifically that I would be willing to vote Omtose to secure a lynch for the day if people didn't agree with the HP vote. THEN, as GL said, Omtose still got back up to L-1 after people jumped ship onto HP, who was at L-3. Barghast waited to vote Omtose until even after he was L-2, with no votes on HP - and he only voted Omtose after it looked like HP might catch the train after all. (I have to agree that it looks like Barg deflected from HP not once, not twice, but at least three times in a row). Barg just isn't getting the facts right.

Anyway, the Omtose lynch was avoided because HP became really suspicious - after accusing others for jumping on the Fener train (which he was on early), he then accuses others of jumping on the Omtose train - and then HE jumps on too. Weird contradictions in voting and posting. What's more suspicious than anything is how Barg is trying to downplay the HP lynch like it was a mistake when it definitely seems suspicious.

However, one thing I do agree on, is that the smoke bomb seems scum-activated from the scene, and if it was an ability it would make sense for it to be indiscriminate, i.e., it obscures the CF of whoever is lynched that day, rather than targeted on a player. Still, odds are that the ability was submitted earlier in the day when an Omtose lynch seemed inevitable... /speculation. Not sure I buy the whole thing though. I still think HP was scum.

[Galayn Lord]

Barghast, on 17 March 2011 - 08:00 PM, said:

@Liosan, I think it was a scum ability, don't get me wrong. But you have to think of this from a scum POV. You only get one action a phase. If the scum have several possible day actions, why not use an action like the smoke bomb? Maybe they get one or two uses of it all game and it was a level 0 ability? Why not just use it now because you know you're about to level up and then you'll want to use other, more powerful abilities? That could have been submitted very early in the day.

Also, I never said HP was inno, just that it was a poorly conceived lynch.


@GL, Omtose did stall out for a long time... at 4 votes. Then Ruse and some of you brought HP to 4.

I can only assume that the period to which you are referring is between posts #374 and #411 (where we have the 4th and 5th Omtose votes), really is not what I would consider a "stall." It is not sufficient to say look at it and say there is an XX hour gap between votes and thus conclude that the vote has lost momentum. You actually have to look at the circumstances and who is posting.

If you were to actually do so, you would see that those posts encompass yourself (who ultimately switches to Omtose), Omtose (who obviously is not going to vote for himself), Liosan (who already voted Omtose), myself (who had already voted Omtose), and Osserc, Ampelas and HP (the three of whom had just logged in after being absent for a while and thus needing to do a reread to catch up). You'll note that HP shortly thereafter votes Omtose, as does Ampelas a bit later, while Osseric remains flexible and willing to be the "hammer" on Omtose if necessary. Rashan also logs in during this time, but, due to what was undoubtedly understandable problems in real life, doesn't end up voting or contributing one way or the other until much later, while Korabas remains dedicated to Kalse. So really, what you perceive as a "stalling" of momentum for voting Omtose out was really just a slow period as people who had been absent earlier were just beginning to log on and read through what they missed. Hence the huge upturn in activity towards the end of that period.

And again, the HP vote was far from inevitable as Osserc really did remain as the potential hammer right up until the end when Rashan and Kalse logged in again.

Edit: added quote for clarity due to crosspost

This post has been edited by Galayn Lord: 17 March 2011 - 08:38 PM

[Kalse]

I'll be off to bed soon, so I'll do a proper read-and-comment tomorrow.

As for my switching votes like that, I really only have one thing to say:

It was the heat of the moment,
Telling me what your heart meant
The heat of the moment showed in your eyes


I agree that my irratic behaviour may seem scummy, but it's just me following my gut...and my gut is telling me a lot of things...like right now it's telling me to get bacon.

Must go!