[McLovin]

Mentalist, on 11 March 2011 - 05:12 AM, said:

I know people will disagree, but Weis and Hickman's "Dragonlance" books should probably be up there.

They are about as "classic" as New Jedi Order. They were the first major RPG-based tie-in Literary Extruded Products, I'll give them that. So they're classics of marketing, maybe. But literature? GTFO with that...

[King Bear]

Now that my tCG copy has been delayed until April 15th, I've started reading Covenant again. I haven't read the final trilogy, and plan to do so in this read through. I'm hoping that the new trilogy is just as good as the older ones.

[Spiridon_Deannis]

Bombur, on 11 March 2011 - 05:19 AM, said:

Spiridon_Deannis, on 11 March 2011 - 04:53 AM, said:

Aw, c´mon, Belgariad is kinda fun to read if yer 15 years old, but beyond that, just *can* it. Great intro lit, then move on. Pleeeaaaseee !!!

I may will read it eventually just for a greater sense of the genre, but I hope I don't have to push myself through it like I did with Dragonlance. One question then: is it something you could enjoy reading for the first time as an adult, or will it just seem lame?

Will possibly be very lame, I´m afraid...

[The Tyrant Lizard]

Abyss, on 10 March 2011 - 06:04 PM, said:

amphibian, on 10 March 2011 - 04:04 AM, said:

...Perhaps Lloyd Alexander's Prydain Chronicles from the '60s should be added. ...

jitsukerr, on 10 March 2011 - 04:57 PM, said:

...Susan Cooper The Dark Is Rising sequence
...André Norton Witch World...

You beat me to these. Totally properly on the list.

I've read chunks of the upthread tho far from all. It's hard to argue against Conan, Lankhmar and Elric as foundations of the genre along with Middle-Earth.

I know it's controversial, but the first three of Brooks' Shannarra books might belong there... SWORD was written back in '77 after all and say what one will about that book, ELFSTONES was more original.

Similarly it's hard to argue against Feist's MAGICIAN at a minimum.

The 'problem' with Feist and Brooks is that they continue writing those series to this day, which distinguishes them from most of the upthread authors who are either dead, retired or so far under the radar as not to matter either way.

I agree about Brooks and Feist, those early books were pretty cool. And although the Sword of Shannara was clearly a rip off Allanon was far cooler than Gandalf...


Ive read the Conan books, and LotR and I'm reading Elric of Marlibeon(sp) at the moment. I like those old books but I dont think they'd cut the mustard in todays market.

[worry]

I would say the Prydain books are on par with the best of young adult fiction...like HP, the books mature along with young readers, and the themes get headier as you go along. Great humor, engaging characters, and there's no lack of tragedy either.

Earthsea by Le Guin should be included. Classic and iconoclastic both.

[lulubel]

Quickie Ben, on 12 March 2011 - 03:13 PM, said:

I've started reading Covenant again. I haven't read the final trilogy, and plan to do so in this read through.

You might want to go very slowly then. The final series is 4 books, not 3. The first 3 are already published, and the last one will probably be published late 2013.

[Abyss]

Quickie Ben, on 11 March 2011 - 05:19 AM, said:

Spiridon_Deannis, on 11 March 2011 - 04:53 AM, said:

Aw, c´mon, Belgariad is kinda fun ...

...is it something you could enjoy reading for the first time as an adult, or will it just seem lame?

Within the context of everything mentioned upthread, i think it's still enjoyable. Trite as much of it is, Eddings wrote great characters into this series for the most part, and when he does a 'crowning moment of awesome' he tends to hit all the right notes.

That said, I can't say the same about the MALLOREAN, which was a sequel series but never hits the same level of fun.

McLovin, on 11 March 2011 - 12:58 PM, said:

Mentalist, on 11 March 2011 - 05:12 AM, said:

I know people will disagree, but Weis and Hickman's "Dragonlance" books should probably be up there.

They are about as "classic" as New Jedi Order. They were the first major RPG-based tie-in Literary Extruded Products, I'll give them that. So they're classics of marketing, maybe. But literature? GTFO with that...

DRAGONLANCE also played up the idea of dark and conflicted heroes in classic fantasy settings more than previous authors. Moorcock had Elric, but Elris is the centre of the story and everything revolves around him. Weis/Hickman added a lot more grey to their characters, and not just Raistlin.

worrywort, on 12 April 2011 - 07:00 AM, said:

...Earthsea by Le Guin should be included. Classic and iconoclastic both.

Yes, but sloooooooooooowwwwww.

[King Bear]

lulubel, on 12 April 2011 - 11:52 AM, said:

You might want to go very slowly then. The final series is 4 books, not 3. The first 3 are already published, and the last one will probably be published late 2013.

Yeah presumption led me to believe that the last chronicles was a trilogy like the first two. I've finished the first two trilogies but I'm waiting until the last series in completed before I start it.

[King Bear]

Abyss, on 12 April 2011 - 01:43 PM, said:

Within the context of everything mentioned upthread, i think it's still enjoyable. Trite as much of it is, Eddings wrote great characters into this series for the most part, and when he does a 'crowning moment of awesome' he tends to hit all the right notes.

That said, I can't say the same about the MALLOREAN, which was a sequel series but never hits the same level of fun

I think I'll have to give the Belgariad a go. Part of me can't really be bothered, but I've read every other major tolkienesque fantasy series from the late 70s and 80s, so why not? I'll expect a fun and entertaining generic fantasy, and nothing mind-blowing or very deep. I suspect that whether I enjoy it or have to slog my way through it will come down to whether or not the fun factor outweighs the triteness.

Dragonlance came down to the same thing for me. Unfortunately that turned out to be a chore, mainly because I felt the plotting was too simplistic/contrived/absurd/non-existent. The characters were fairly entertaining though, especially Tasslehoff and Raistlin.

I don't think I'll bother with the Mallorean unless I REALLY like the Belgariad.

[acesn8s]

Quickie Ben, on 12 April 2011 - 02:46 PM, said:

Abyss, on 12 April 2011 - 01:43 PM, said:

Within the context of everything mentioned upthread, i think it's still enjoyable. Trite as much of it is, Eddings wrote great characters into this series for the most part, and when he does a 'crowning moment of awesome' he tends to hit all the right notes.

That said, I can't say the same about the MALLOREAN, which was a sequel series but never hits the same level of fun

I think I'll have to give the Belgariad a go. Part of me can't really be bothered, but I've read every other major tolkienesque fantasy series from the late 70s and 80s, so why not? I'll expect a fun and entertaining generic fantasy, and nothing mind-blowing or very deep. I suspect that whether I enjoy it or have to slog my way through it will come down to whether or not the fun factor outweighs the triteness.

Dragonlance came down to the same thing for me. Unfortunately that turned out to be a chore, mainly because I felt the plotting was too simplistic/contrived/absurd/non-existent. The characters were fairly entertaining though, especially Tasslehoff and Raistlin.

I don't think I'll bother with the Mallorean unless I REALLY like the Belgariad.

I don't think you'll slog through it, mainly because it isn't that deep. It's fun brain candy with a simple, but clever magic system, generic bad guys, and entertaining dialog.

The Mallorean is basically a retread of the Belgariad. If you enjoyed the Belgariad I'd suggest reading The Elenium next. Similar vein, but with different characters on a different world (or try something you can sink your teeth into and then come back to the Mallorean).

[Abyss]

acesn8s, on 12 April 2011 - 08:56 PM, said:

... If you enjoyed the Belgariad I'd suggest reading The Elenium next. Similar vein, but with different characters on a different world ...

Can't agree with you there. I found the Elenium/Tamuli series even weaker than the Mallorean. Characters are basically the same ones from the Belgariad with different names, in less challenging situations, with even more predictable plots. At least the Mallorean was in part more of the good parts from the Belgariad (mostly Silk).


Either way, for the love of god, avoid The Redemption of Althalus. please.

[Use Of Weapons]

I actually liked the Elenium -- it was darker in tone than either the Belgariad or the Malloreon, and while much of the plot is similar, and the characters, the situation is grimmer and the world is nicely realised. The plot for The Diamond Throne (if you've forgotten, it's

Spoiler

a quest plot to retrieve Bhelliom in order to save Ehlana, who's being kept alive by the sacrifices of her Knights' lifeforces, arranged by Sephrenia

).

[acesn8s]

Abyss, on 13 April 2011 - 02:33 PM, said:

Either way, for the love of god, avoid The Redemption of Althalus. please.

On this we can agree on. Redemption was my last Eddings book. I was excited to see it when it came out, since he wasn't pimping another Belgariad rehash, like Polagra the Sorceress (I didn't like the idea when Piers Anthoney tried it with his Incarnations of Immortality series).

[Abyss]

jitsukerr, on 13 April 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

I actually liked the Elenium -- it was darker in tone than either the Belgariad or the Malloreon, and while much of the plot is similar, and the characters, the situation is grimmer and the world is nicely realised. The plot for The Diamond Throne (if you've forgotten, it's

Spoiler

a quest plot to retrieve Bhelliom in order to save Ehlana, who's being kept alive by the sacrifices of her Knights' lifeforces, arranged by Sephrenia

).

My main problems with the Sparhawk series were....

Spoiler

the whole Sparhawk/Ehlana romance was intrinsically icky (she was what? fourteen?), and the baddies were utterly ineffective except in the most ham-handed plot advancing ways (Summon my mighty otherworldy soldiers!!! Victory is MINE!!! MWAHAHAhahaaaa.... what do you mean they can't frikkin breath our air???), which became an Eddings staple in everything after the Belgariad.

Eddings did write some great dialogue tho'.

[worry]

Abyss, on 12 April 2011 - 01:43 PM, said:

worrywort, on 12 April 2011 - 07:00 AM, said:

...Earthsea by Le Guin should be included. Classic and iconoclastic both.

Yes, but sloooooooooooowwwwww.

Sometimes I like it slow.

[Use Of Weapons]

worrywort, on 13 April 2011 - 11:34 PM, said:

Abyss, on 12 April 2011 - 01:43 PM, said:

worrywort, on 12 April 2011 - 07:00 AM, said:

...Earthsea by Le Guin should be included. Classic and iconoclastic both.

Yes, but sloooooooooooowwwwww.

Sometimes I like it slow.

And sometimes hard (Stover: Caine), and sometimes freaky (Bishop: Black Jewels)

[acesn8s]

Abyss, on 13 April 2011 - 05:57 PM, said:

jitsukerr, on 13 April 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

I actually liked the Elenium -- it was darker in tone than either the Belgariad or the Malloreon, and while much of the plot is similar, and the characters, the situation is grimmer and the world is nicely realised. The plot for The Diamond Throne (if you've forgotten, it's

Spoiler

a quest plot to retrieve Bhelliom in order to save Ehlana, who's being kept alive by the sacrifices of her Knights' lifeforces, arranged by Sephrenia

).

My main problems with the Sparhawk series were....

Spoiler

the whole Sparhawk/Ehlana romance was intrinsically icky (she was what? fourteen?), and the baddies were utterly ineffective except in the most ham-handed plot advancing ways (Summon my mighty otherworldy soldiers!!! Victory is MINE!!! MWAHAHAhahaaaa.... what do you mean they can't frikkin breath our air???), which became an Eddings staple in everything after the Belgariad.

Eddings did write some great dialogue tho'.

"I lied." Silk said. "It's a vice I have."

[stone monkey]

Master Li and Number Ten Ox series by Barry Hughart. Read them and then come back and thank me. And then rage over Hughart's publishers screwing him around so badly that he gave up on the whole novel writing lark for good.

"I have" said Master Li, "A slight flaw in my character."

[Abyss]

acesn8s, on 14 April 2011 - 06:57 PM, said:

Abyss, on 13 April 2011 - 05:57 PM, said:

...Eddings did write some great dialogue tho'.

"I lied." Silk said. "It's a vice I have."

Silk has some of the best lines...

"What was that?" Belgarath asked, coming back around the corner.
"Brill," Silk replied blandly, pulling his Murgo robe back on.
"Again?" Belgarath demanded with exasperation. "What was he doing this time?"
"Trying to fly, last time I saw him." Silk smirked.
The old man looked puzzled.
"He wasn't doing it very well," Silk added.
Belgarath shrugged. "Maybe it'll come to him in time."
"He doesn't really have all that much time." Silk glanced out over the edge.
"From far below - terribly far below - there came a faint, muffled crash; then, after several seconds, another.
"Does bouncing count?" Silk asked.
Belgarath made a wry face. "Not really."
"Then I'd say he didn't learn in time." Silk said blithely."


"I didn't particularly feel like being arrested, so I argued with the soldiers a bit. Several of them died during the argument - those things happen once in a while. Unfortunately, one of the casualties was Taur Urgas' oldest son. The king of the Murgos took it personally. He's very narrow-minded sometimes."


"Trust me."

...and of course, paraphrasing...

"One does one's humble best."

[Use Of Weapons]

Abyss, on 14 April 2011 - 07:22 PM, said:

Silk has some of the best lines...

"Then I'd say he didn't learn in time." Silk said blithely."

You stopped one line too early there. IIRC (don't have the books in front of me), the next line is something like:

Silk threw his arms wide and smiled widely. "What a lovely day this is."