[King Bear]

So I was rummaging through a wardrobe today...

and in this wardrobe I found this bag...

and in this bag I found this book:

WARHAMMER: THE KONRAD SAGA

I'd blissfully forgotten all about it. Now it's seared into my brain once more. Read it 5 years ago and it still stands as THE WORST FANTASY SERIES I HAVE EVER READ.

The plot made no sense, the mildly interesting set-up about Konrad's secret past at the start of the first book was never followed through, the characters were underdeveloped and boring, and the climax in book 3 fell entirely flat, and the thing finished so abruptly and without resolution that I wondered where the rest of the story was.

So my question... are all Warhammer novels this crap? I mean, the Konrad saga makes Dragonlance look like Gene Wolfe.

I played a warhammer game as a kid, DARK OMEN, that I enjoyed and looking back reminds me of the Black Company series. But those Konrad books... [insert expletive here]

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This post has been edited by Bombur: 05 March 2011 - 02:41 PM

[Garak]

Haven't read any Warhammer fantasy, only Warhammer 40.000. Some are good, some are crap .... and even the good ones should simply be read for the fun of the screwed up setting and constant warfare. Being a 40k fan I embrace the absurdity of the setting so I mostly like the 40k books.

[King Bear]

Garak, on 05 March 2011 - 05:54 PM, said:

Haven't read any Warhammer fantasy, only Warhammer 40.000. Some are good, some are crap .... and even the good ones should simply be read for the fun of the screwed up setting and constant warfare. Being a 40k fan I embrace the absurdity of the setting so I mostly like the 40k books.

Yeah I read the book because of the setting I remembered from the game. If there are good ones out there I might try to find them sometime.

[Tsundoku]

I've said it before and will now say it again:

Dan Abnett FTW.

That is all.

[King Bear]

Sombra, on 06 March 2011 - 01:52 AM, said:

I've said it before and will now say it again:

Dan Abnett FTW.

That is all.

thank you good sir

[King Bear]

Briar King, on 06 March 2011 - 04:08 AM, said:

What is the plotlines for WH and WH40K exactly?

The major ongoing conflict in WH is the empire (humans) vs chaos (evil gods and their demonic and mortal servants). Chaos has invaided WH world and is trying to bring about the apocalypse and generally cause as much damage and corruption as possible, and the empire is trying to stop it or at best delay it. Allied with the empire are elves, dwarfs and a couple of other human kingdoms, although at least some of these fight the empire and each other from time to time. Some other major threats to the 'good guys' are the vampire counts and their armies of assorted undead, undead pharohs and their skeleton armies, orcs, and the skaven rat men.

There is a story-line following how all these ongoing conflicts are played out, but I'm not that familiar with it.

I know very little about WH40K, except that it's pretty much WH in space.

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empire vs chaos

edit: ok that picture was huge...

This post has been edited by Bombur: 06 March 2011 - 05:39 AM

[Mentalist]

Warhammer 40k:
Humans have an empire. in Space.
this Empire is a theocracy, based on the worship of the God-Emperor, who is entombed on Terra in a life-support device called the Golden throne that keeps him alive for eternity.


The Imperium of Man is constantly under treat. its worlds are being invaded by Orks (a varaition of our typical fantasy orcs, who are pure Chaotic Evil and conquer planets and kill people for the lulz, and speak a very hilarious dialect of broken English), the Tyranids (precursor to StarCraft's Zerg, who consume entire worlds, literally eating away planet's crust and core), the Necrons (a race of Tremniator-like UNdead, whose mission before tehir gods is to purge teh galaxy of all life), the Tau (a recently developed sentient race that's spreading a philosophy of "Greater Good" and swiftly expanding throughtout the galaxy, The Eldar (an ancient elf-like race that nearly destroyed itself in decadence millenia ago, giving birth to a Chaos God. the remainders now live in giant spaceships called "craftworlds", and tent to plot and scheme a lot to avoid destruction. in this, they will gladly use millions of humans as worthless pawns or meatshields to a impending threat to themselves), their relatives, the Dark Eldar, who revel in piracy and all kinds of depravities. Oh, and they collect souls of dead enemies as a hobby.

Against this, thperium of Man has the endless armies of its Imperial Guard (usually conscripts with Kevlar and a laser rifle), whose only saving grace is their large amount of big tanks, and the Space Marines--genetically engineered super-soldiers. Problem being, about half of these got corrupted by the powers of Chaos about 5-6 millenia ago, and since then they've been trying to overthrow the Imperium too.

now, I clearly oversimplified it, but you should get the picture.....

[Primateus]

I read the Slayer novels, stories in the warhammer setting. About the Slayer Gotrek Gurnisson and his companion Felix Jaegar. They are great fun and highly entertaining. But don't read them expecting high literature. If you sit down and expect something like the MBotF you are shooting yourself in the foot and you WILL be disapointed.

Read them for what they are, fun books with lots of craziness, violence and absurdity.

[Sindriss]

The slayer series are pretty good.

And the series about the inquisition are even better actually.

[Tapper]

The main difference is the coolness scaling. From left to right = cool to uncool

WarHammer: Chaos >>> Dark Elves >>> Bretonnians >>> Empire >>> Dwarfs >>> Orcs >>> Elves
WH 40k : most xenoes >>> Inquisition + Imperial Guard >>> remaining xenoes (cough tau cough) >>> Space Marines >>> Chaos

[Garak]

The Imperium of Man (well the Inquisition really) also has a tendency to do this. The planet only has a million people on it's since it's barely populated.

Also, the factions (so you get a better idea of the insanity): Adepta Sororitas, Inquisition, Imperial Guard, Adeptus Astartes, Adeptus Mechanicus (techpriests of Mars), Chaos, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Necrons, Tyranids, Tau and Orks.


EDIT: Oh and there are no good guys. Just various degrees of evil.

This post has been edited by Garak: 06 March 2011 - 11:00 AM

[Macros]

tapper, how very fucking dare you.
SM top all lists. end off.
and in Warhammer, I think we know that human mercs are the coolest.

if they wrote novels based on shadow of the horned rat, or jsut even a series on the grudebringers, ala black company, i'd read the shit out of it

[QuickTidal]

Okay, who can recommend a "reading order" for GOOD WH 40K books? I know the Abnet ones are meant to be good, but where does one start?

I saw an omnibus in the store the other day called ENFORCER with some crazy ass chick in armor on the cover by Matthew Farrer or sumthin...?

There's just SO many I haven't the foggiest what's good and where to start...

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 06 March 2011 - 01:22 PM

[Illuyankas]

HERETIC, on 06 March 2011 - 10:08 AM, said:

The main difference is the coolness scaling. From left to right = cool to uncool

WH 40k : Prancing Effeminate Space Elves > MOTHERFUCKING SPACE SHARKS

I say this because I am a heretic and you should ignore my opinions entirely.

There is a chapter called the Space Sharks. This alone makes SPHESS MAREENS great.



QuickTidal, there are several omnibuses of books out there, the Eisenhorn, Ravenor and various Gaunt's Ghosts ones by Abnett are fairly good places to start. Use this to answer anything that comes up you're unfamiliar with.

This post has been edited by Illuyankas: 06 March 2011 - 01:27 PM

[QuickTidal]

Illuyankas, on 06 March 2011 - 01:25 PM, said:

QuickTidal, there are several omnibuses of books out there, the Eisenhorn, Ravenor and various Gaunt's Ghosts ones by Abnett are fairly good places to start. Use this to answer anything that comes up you're unfamiliar with.

Thanks man. Appreciated!

[The Tyrant Lizard]

the slayer books are good william king is a pretty good writer i think.

Hammers of Ulrich is a good book too.

I read that konrad shite and gave up half way through. that book isnt really a reflection on other warhammer books

[Werthead]

I'd recommend the following order for Abnett's books alone:

Gaunt's Ghosts
1: The Founding (Books 1-3) (note: Books 1-2 are a bit rough, but Book 3 is awesome)
2: The Saint (Books 4-7)
3: The Lost (Books 8-11)

A fourth arc is currently underway, with Book 12 out now and 13 due in a few months. These, along with the next two books, will be collected in an omnibus called The Victory, probably somewhere around late 2013-14.

The Inquisition
1: Eisenhorn
2: Ravenor

I'd then check out Sandy Mitchell's Ciaphas Cain books, which are excellent. They are divided into two onnibuses, Hero of the Imperium and Defender of the Imperium. More are on their way.

After that I'm not sure what (since I'm now reading the second Cain omnibus). Maybe the Horus Heresy series (14 books and counting so far), though they're not available in omnibus (yet) and catching up by individual volumes will be expensive.

This post has been edited by Werthead: 06 March 2011 - 02:14 PM

[King Bear]

The Tyrant Lizard, on 06 March 2011 - 01:40 PM, said:

the slayer books are good william king is a pretty good writer i think.

Hammers of Ulrich is a good book too.

I read that konrad shite and gave up half way through. that book isnt really a reflection on other warhammer books

So which WH novels come recommended? I'd most like to read about the Empire/its heroes, at least at first.

Giving up on Konrad half-way through was the right thing to do.

@ Macros: a grudgebringer series would be awesome. Still have fond memories of that game.

[Mentalist]

Macros, on 06 March 2011 - 01:18 PM, said:

tapper, how very fucking dare you.
SM top all lists. end off.
and in Warhammer, I think we know that human mercs are the coolest.

if they wrote novels based on shadow of the horned rat, or jsut even a series on the grudebringers, ala black company, i'd read the shit out of it

There are some cool Space marines Chapters/legions.
but when majority of people thing "Space Marines", they think "Ultramarines", and they are just bland and boring.

[King Bear]

Mentalist, on 07 March 2011 - 06:29 AM, said:

Macros, on 06 March 2011 - 01:18 PM, said:

tapper, how very fucking dare you.
SM top all lists. end off.
and in Warhammer, I think we know that human mercs are the coolest.

if they wrote novels based on shadow of the horned rat, or jsut even a series on the grudebringers, ala black company, i'd read the shit out of it

There are some cool Space marines Chapters/legions.
but when majority of people thing "Space Marines", they think "Ultramarines", and they are just bland and boring.

I'm more intrigued by the space marines than any other WH40K faction. Genetically and cyberneticallly enhanced super-soldiers in beefy dath vader armour who behave like templar knights on crack. What's not to like?