[worry]

Excellent response. You should post more often.

[Mentalist]

to all those bemoaning the lack of an epic "holy shit, no way" moment:

This is MBotF. the series that smashes all tropes.

we got a convergence of truly massive proportions, where the world was about to be destroyed and humanity wiped out 3 times over.

and we had 4 massive epic battle scenes with plenty of sacrifices to accompany it. Spread out over some 6-5 hundred pages of pure awesome (i'm not including the buildup part).

in the end we know what the OD was, what happened to the CG, what happened to the Jade, most EGs are dead and accounted for, Iccy is back to the status quo, the 2 Malaz forces are back and we know who lived who died, AND we saw just about every Elder Race ever mentioned throughout the entire 10book sequence come together and fight a single battle. while over them, it rained the blood of a divine warpig.

SE didn't give us a "OMGWTF" moment for this book. He gave us an entire OMGWTF BOOK. while masterfully blunting all our expectations of that ONE BIG MOMENT. because life goes one. and the Book of the Fallen is just a part of the history of WU. and history never ends, because life goes on--somehting mentioned often enough in the whole Perish plot arc of tCG.

and all I can say is, bravo.

EDIT: oh, and for those saying Shake story wasn't connected: it's clearly the setup for Kharkanas.

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 23 March 2011 - 10:27 PM

[worry]

Haha, a divine warpig? Do you suspect SE is a big Sabbath fan?

[MWKarsa]

I know that when I re-read this book I will actually enjoy it more and that's not to say that I thought this book or my first read was disappointing at all. But I was disappointed in Karsa's lack of involvement but I put the blame for that on myself and not the book or SE's conclusion to this series. Because of my bias towards all things Karsa I went into this book with the mindset of "Oh shit I can't wait to see Karsa go toe to toe with a god in an epic one on one battle" or "Damn Karsa is going to personally wreck an entire legion of troops and dramactically change the course of the epic battle by himself.". Instead of just enjoying what I was reading I honestly kept thinking about when Karsa was going to get more into the action and that fault lies with me. I took my own expectations into the first read too much and it colored my first reaction- which isn't fair to the book or SE's conclusion.

I honestly really look forward to the re-read of this entire series as I've only read each one once to gain a greater appreciation and knowledge of the books and all the inner workings I obviously missed along the way. When I get to the re-read for TCG I know I will be able to apprecciate it that much more after that and not letting my personal bias get in the way.

WIth any series of this length there are bound to be people who might be disappointed with how it ends but IMO it only strengthens SE talents as a writer and is tribute to the epic series he penned to have so many people passionate on the subject to re-read, dissect minute details and foreshadowing and even argue over those points and subjects.

Many books aren't worthy of one read much less multiple ones but this will be series I know I will return to time and time again.

[Creox]

Hello all.

This is my first post but I've been a long time lurker.

I just finished TcG last night and wanted to post my thoughts.

This is far from a "I was disappointed" point of view because I wasn't at all (well, a bit ). In fact I want to say "thank you" to SE for creating this amazing world. Truly a creative gem in fantasy lit.

I am posting in this thread because I wanted to also add my two cents on some problems I had with the series as well as the good. As I read through the series I really felt the Malazan world was complete
and fully formed. The characters, politics, method of magic etc were very cool and interesting. I have my favs from Karsa to QB. The epic battles were the meat and potatoes for me along with the history of
the elder races. The ability of SE to portray the way these races dealt with living for thousands of years was amazing.

I started reading after the first five books were already out so I've invested about five years to his project. If I had started the series after the whole had been published I probably would have enjoyed the series better. Let me explain.

The sheer magnitude of this tale (9-10,000 pages ?) is staggering. I devoured the first five books and then....waited. I was not interested in re-reading the series every year when the next book came out. I traveled the net for summaries which led me here

They gave me good info and refreshed my memory but....I found my interest fading between books and TTh just simply took forever for me to read . The sheer number of protagonists almost assures that one cannot get fully anchored to the story before it changes course completely again. I found myself thinking with the introduction of the edur..."wtf is this" and "why". Of course in the overall plot to the series I understand but at the time it seemed SE was writing a totally different story/book/series...(I guess he was )

I hope this comes across with some clarity because I am sitting here trying to parse my love of this world and story with my puzzlement with it at the same time LOL...

I guess overreach is my conclusion but done spectacularly. TcG was a great book. The battles were epic and the conclusion unclear (which is fine by me). The only concerns I had with it was a few cheesy scenes and some dialogue that left me cringing and wondering if SE was pretty much exhausted by that point.

well, So long SE and thanks for all the fish

[Captain Beardface]

So I saw this Thread title when it was originally posted, I had no yet started tCG and I wasn't going to click on it cause I didn't want to see any spoilers. Once I got into tCG I had forgotten about this thread as I was utterly blown away by SE's final chapter of TMBotF. Then I read SE's interview on Pat's site and this thread was mentioned so I came and checked it out. The part that blew me away the most the OP's last line of cursing the day they picked up the series.

For me the end of the series was amazing and heartbreaking in the same instant.

Thank you SE for sharing your story with us.

[D'iversify]

worrywort, on 23 March 2011 - 10:33 PM, said:

Haha, a divine warpig? Do you suspect SE is a big Sabbath fan?

See the generals in their masses, just like witches at black masses - before Yedan Derryg hacks them all down that is...

[berserker!!]

Iamme, on 28 February 2011 - 06:54 AM, said:

A tale of malazan book of the fallen! SE was true to name of the book. This book was about crippled god and those who were part of the story line. With his "departure", story ended too. Wait for ICE books for all the hanging threads...

Kinda lame to rely on another author to tie up "loose ends" like Karsa( and the teblor army), Kallor, silverfox,Draconus, Daseem,Icarium, etc.,

[beru]

remember that its less of a "another author" and more of a CO-author

they did after all make the world together, i guess you just have to trust them to know what they are doing

[Ceda Cicero]

beru, on 08 April 2011 - 09:47 PM, said:

remember that its less of a "another author" and more of a CO-author

they did after all make the world together, i guess you just have to trust them to know what they are doing

Co-author and co-creator. It would be lame if, say, SE had had a nervous breakdown on how to tie up loose ends like Silverfox and had to lean on Cam to alleviate pressure, but the characters, settings and stories of this world have been trading hands between the two of them since day one.

Also, whether or not something constitutes a loose end as opposed to, say, an ending that leaves you wanting to know more or personal disappointment over not seeing enough of your favorite characters might be a conversation worth having.

[Wappadu]

There have been many instances in my time with this series that I have really disliked a character or location during my first read of a book. Every moment spent in those scenes had me fidgeting mentally, impatient to get back to my favored storylines. A few examples that stick out:

Kruppe (some random fat guy who dreams in the 3rd person was taking me away from mage battles, imperial intrigue, and Bridgeburner revenge)
Karsa (he had nothing to do with anything up to that point, and was a rotten person that I didn't want to root for)
Mappo & Icarium (an amnesiac and his guardian/conservator wandering aimlessly with the barest of connections to the main story)
Lether (all things Letherii and Edur had zero impact on the Malazans. That was a tough one to get invested in simply because of my expectations for where the story should be going)


All of those cases listed above, and many more, grew to become favorites. The thing is, it would happen over the course of hundreds of pages within the book or even span multiple volumes. I think a lot of the complaints people have today would disappear or even become positive memories if the series continued. Events that I didn't enjoy reading about at the time would morph so often as I read on and saw how it changed a character or got another viewpoint that put things in a different context.

SE provided more "endings" to storylines than many were expecting, but it wasn't across the board. Some got the happily ever after, some got what they deserved, and a lot just got it handed to them (Hood-impaled FA, I'm looking at you). There is frustration in not knowing what happens next to characters we're invested in or the opportunity for our least favorites to become Karsa Jr. and dominate every scene. It's almost as if we're one of those trapped in the jade statues and lost our vantage point at the end of The Crippled God.

This has been an excellent series and well worth every minute of my time.

[worry]

Neocount Cicero, on 08 April 2011 - 09:51 PM, said:

Also, whether or not something constitutes a loose end as opposed to, say, an ending that leaves you wanting to know more or personal disappointment over not seeing enough of your favorite characters might be a conversation worth having.

Probably not, since people who don't or can't or simply refuse to get the difference are likely serial whiners rather than worthwhile debate POVs.

[Ceda Cicero]

worrywort, on 08 April 2011 - 10:29 PM, said:

Neocount Cicero, on 08 April 2011 - 09:51 PM, said:

Also, whether or not something constitutes a loose end as opposed to, say, an ending that leaves you wanting to know more or personal disappointment over not seeing enough of your favorite characters might be a conversation worth having.

Probably not, since people who don't or can't or simply refuse to get the difference are likely serial whiners rather than worthwhile debate POVs.

Yeah, I nearly went back and edited in "with yourself" at the end of that post.

[D'iversify]

I'm personally glad that there weren't too many 'endings', as, whilst the events of tCG were momentous, it would have really taken away from the sense that these are historical personages and events which don't necessarily neatly reach the finish line at the same time. I bought wholly into Erikson's claim that his story is a 'snapshot' of Wu's history and it would have been awful if that history had effectively 'ended' by having every conflict and lingering ambiguity resolved. I mean, think of Eddings' fantasy worlds and works - at the end, the antagonists are destroyed and what follows is 'happily ever after' etc, i.e. nothing interesting ever happens again because everything's been resolved. Of course, many fantasy authors and readers like this illusion of a permanent resolution and an 'end of history' - which is why Tolkien never finished his sequel to LotR as he didn't want to give the impression that all the heroic achievements of the War of the Ring could be undone in the course of history.

[End of Disc One]

I just finished and haven't read this whole thread. This is still an amazing book in its own right, but I'm disappointed that after the first few books SE has been afraid to let all shit hit the fan. We were supposed to get a convergence that defies comprehension, but this convergence didn't seen much bigger than other ones we've seen. The big players were never all in the same place at the same time. I also thought the most crazy epic scene in the series was with the skykeeps in DoD, but nothing in TCG rivaled that. And the most satisfying convergence is still in MoI.

I had been looking forward to those jade statues arriving for so long, because I was sure that once they hit some crazy shit would happen, but it never did. And other moments like Torrent shooting Olar Ethil...good for Torrent but I wanted to see her get all draconic and duke it out with Hood. I wanted T'iam to fully assemble and I wish Fener would have fucked some shit up before getting killed (or maybe not, that was pretty awesome as it was).

Also the FA were very disappointing as the big bad guys. Each and every one of them went down when pushed.

I don't want to sound like a downer because most fantasy doesn't get close to this level of epicness. I remember first reading GotM and thinking "nah, they won't awaken the Jaghut Tyrant. That would be too epic. Something will stop them." And I was awed that this actually happened and it was only the beginning. But after MoI there have been too many cockteases.

[worry]

I had no problem with the FA going out the way they did except for Calm. It would have been neat if she actually fought Ublala and he -- through his own dunder-headed version of Karsa-like stubbornness -- won out anyway...injured but not dead. But I still liked what actually happened, just not her getting taken out from behind.

[You Killed His Dog]

First time poster here. I've lurked for a while but never really bothered to say anything until now; I even bothered to create an account.

I'm getting sort of annoyed at everyone talking about The Shake and how irrelevant they are. As someone stated earlier they are a follow on from Rakes storyline dealing with finding his people a home; this is at least how I see it. I also feel this will be given more importance as the Kharkanas trilogy as the Shake have clearly fought on the First Shore before.

I'm also annoyed at people being frustrated with Helian being back. SE hints at this so many times during the last book. Toc waiting, Toc holding on, Toc giving a part of himself up. Especially the final moment where he raises his hand then disappears.

I'm frustrated at the person that mentioned Cotillion (s?) and ST having a minor role to play (at least as far as they saw it) it seems you've missed the whole idea that while they don't control every event they were the ones directing the general outline of events from the first book onwards.

I understand why people are annoyed about the faceoff between BB and the FA but come on how fitting was it that the final blow that was struck was from the god they had judged unworthy and broken?

I think in regards to the Tavore issue it could have been her planning it out and understanding Maels gift or turning to it in desperation and then realising what it was; but as someone stated this probably would not have helped them earlier in the Glass Desert. Also I'll point out that I don't think it covered the whole desert but only a portion where there had previously been a lake or sea bed. The thing is life can't prosper without water and what I think is that while Mael was helping the Bonehunters he was also making an attempt at clearing up the leftovers from the death of the FA god.

I'm also rather bothered by people saying this book lacked an epic feel... I'm sorry but every Dragon in that books Universe turned up to try and kill the Otat one and she left a road of dead dragons behind her. Also a god of war died above one of the largest battles known in the MBOTF and rained his blood down bringing the T'lan Imass back from their undying life.

I appreciate what someone was saying about how they were not as pleased as they'd like to be with the FA and Ubala Pung fight but come on... That's so Ubala 'I don't like evil/bad people' (I don't have the book i front of me so I'm not sure of the exact wording but I'm pretty sure that's what he says to the Telobor gods before he destroys them.

I'm currently on holiday and due to this may have had more time to read it with a deeper level of focus. While this post isn't meant to be an attack at anyone I feel most of the people who are complaining about certain things either haven't paid enough attention to the story during the course of their readings or aren't paying enough attention to all the small bits of foreshadowing and hints SE gives us; The whole Hellian thing especially.

To be honest I couldn't be happier with the way this book ended. The reveal that they aren't trying to beat the CG or kill him but save him from a life of pain. The way SE gives us the Otaral Dragons thoughts and how it wishes to be free but knows it's freedom means the death of everything. God it's heart breaking. Then again I've always been happy with whatever SE and the Iceman (nice nickname btw) provide me with as I don't want to choose how the story pans out I want their version of it.

Also come on the dud cussar? What's more Hedge and Fiddler than that? I also can't believe people are annoyed with the whole Korlat and WJ thing. To me that's how it should have ended, it's what the Bridgeburners would have done.

These are just my thoughts and maybe I'm involved in these books to much and pay to much attention to all the little things that go on. But to me this book was what it needed to be the second part of the final volume; do remember that is in essence what it is. The twists were fantastic and so were the arching storylines. Sure I'd like to have seen a little bit more of certain people Krupee and Tehol for one (I can never get enough of either) but I wouldn't change the book a word.

One final point to the people complaining about how annoying it is annoying can die/anyone can be killed by anyone in this book. I see this as one of the best things about SE his willingness to give everyone different levels but use death as the leveller. I love the fact that gods can die and that it can be at the hands of a mortal. I'd also put that on an equal footing with the fact that he has so many characters and the difference in these characters (minor and major) ranging from their position to their race to their beliefs, preferences and quirks. They all add to the story in one way or another.

'First in, last out.'

Edit: Sorry for the ranting post it's quite late here, i'm a little drunk and on holiday.

Edit the second: Just had a flashback about Paran sappers seeing the boxes of munitions 'Sir, are they crying?' and then Hedge and his 'Kittens'? <3 Malazan Book of the Fallen <3

Edit the third: Also in regard to Draconius and his dragon form I think this is due to a lack of attention or thought too. It seems clear to me but I'm probably wrong. I envision him as a Dragon but he is in essence clouded in shadows constantly, similar to a cloak, so as he flies the shadows spread out from his body and wings and flow behind him making him look like one badass Shadow Dragon while in essence that's just his magical sparkle flowing out.

This post has been edited by You Killed His Dog: 12 April 2011 - 09:38 AM

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

End of Disc One, on 12 April 2011 - 03:33 AM, said:

Also the FA were very disappointing as the big bad guys. Each and every one of them went down when pushed.

This is my one major complaint. Combined with how surprisingly one-dimentional they were ("kill them all! Uh, for... justice, or something. Yeah"), they felt more like Power Rangers villains there as a vehicle for the heroes to show off their awesome superhero powers than a serious threat. By 2/3 of the way through, I was just waiting for the FA annoyance to safely be tucked out of the way, figuring that a proper ascendant convergence was where the shit would really hit the fan. Of course, though I was kind of expecting Draconus to reappear, what we did get was even better.

[Shadow of Shadowthrone]

Finally! Last night I finished The Crippled God. As a somewhat slow reader (or rather, having to share my interest in reading with other hobbies), I have been working, chewing, through the series since January '10. One year and four months.

And I have to say, the first 3/4 of the book is dripping with greatness, but the last 1/4... yeah, I was dissapointed. Not quite sure whether I can pinpoint exactly why just yet. Now I'll go back to page 1 and actually read this thread and maybe I will be more informed about my own feelings.

[Shadow of Shadowthrone]

Shadow of Shadowthrone, on 12 April 2011 - 11:11 AM, said:

Finally! Last night I finished The Crippled God. As a somewhat slow reader (or rather, having to share my interest in reading with other hobbies), I have been working, chewing, through the series since January '10. One year and four months.

And I have to say, the first 3/4 of the book is dripping with greatness, but the last 1/4... yeah, I was dissapointed. Not quite sure whether I can pinpoint exactly why just yet. Now I'll go back to page 1 and actually read this thread and maybe I will be more informed about my own feelings.

I think I found the word I was looking for in the very first post...the story kind of fizzled out. Fizzled out in a plenty-of-battles-and-heaps-upon-heaps-of-slippery-gore-of-corpses and raining-god'sblood-kind of way ^^