[ThinkingMalaz]

agreed with the one caveat that Kallor though very powerful, is NOT an ascendant, such was the nature of the curse laid upon him. ascendancy seems to bestow immortality, or at least longevity and Kallor does not have that. He is forced to use alchemy to extend his own non-invalid lifespan. If he didn't do that, he'd still live but he'd be an ancient invalid unable to do much of anything....

[Tattersail_]

ThinkingMalaz, on 16 February 2011 - 12:19 PM, said:

agreed with the one caveat that Kallor though very powerful, is NOT an ascendant, such was the nature of the curse laid upon him. ascendancy seems to bestow immortality, or at least longevity and Kallor does not have that. He is forced to use alchemy to extend his own non-invalid lifespan. If he didn't do that, he'd still live but he'd be an ancient invalid unable to do much of anything....

agreed because of the curse laid on him by the elder gods.

[Silk]

One could say in a round about way with regards to Kallor, that as the last of his kind .... (the timeline is not important but..... he seemed to preceed normal humans and there are none alive amongst his people) also stops the ascendancy as there is no-one to push him up the mountain... in essence he is stuck on the mole hill while others are pushed to mountains.... as Faith is a big girl and can make mountains out of mole hills when pushed by belief.

This post has been edited by Silk: 16 February 2011 - 12:45 PM

[worry]

For the record, Kilmandaros is referred to as an ascendent in the RG prologue (I believe), so I'd imagine the term can be used for all the EGs too.

[Hoods Breath]

i never thought of Fiddler as an ascendant.
- He's tough. As he should be having gone through Raraku, Y'Ghatan, and other trials.
- He's clever enough to hang with the heads of the Bridgeburners and Bonehunters... even if he doesn't want to.
- I suspect he's got some mage aptitude with the way he 'senses' events and recognizes magic... He either ignores, or hides some mage skills.
- He's obviously one of the best readers of the deck.
- And of course he plays a mean fiddle.
He's a great character and may yet ascend...

... but ascended? When he starts pulling munitions out of his butt at will with his super ascendant powers then I'll buy into that theory.

Which brings to mind... Did Hedge ascend as a Bridgeburner? And if so, did he lose it when he became new-Hedge?
Are the Bridgeburners only ascendants as a group? Or also as individuals?

[Silk]

Bridgeburners are as a group ascended.... so if once a live BB dies he goes to join his brethren in the ascension plains .....

Then again, one does not have to die to ascend .....

Well if one goes back to the opening of Gotm... of the three people that are on the parrapet... WJ, Paran and Fiddler..... only one has died in the sense that he past through Hoods Gates... 2 are essentially confirmed as ascended and as the whole series seems to deal with the power of three its not a long jump that he is the thrid of this trio to ascend ... after all everything is clumped into threes in the books.....

The series started with the three of them... it will end with the three of them ;o))) (well in my mind that is)

This post has been edited by Silk: 17 February 2011 - 09:57 AM

[Use Of Weapons]

All the mortals we've seen Ascend have died. Tiste *, Jaghut, and Thelomen Toblakai don't count when it comes to mortals paths to Ascension, I would say. Given that a normal human lifespan is so short, it makes sense that it takes something momentous (like death or something close to death (Paran) to prepare them for Ascension. Gesler, Stormy and Truth have not yet Ascended -- likely they'll need to actually die in order to take that final step.

All the above IMO, of course

[champ]

Don't have the direct quote to hand but from RotCG...

There are many paths to ascension...

[Use Of Weapons]

champooon, on 17 February 2011 - 01:38 PM, said:

There are many paths to ascension...

Granted. But many of those paths seem to start with, Step 1 -- be born a Tiste Andii/Edur/Elder race member. Which paths are closed to Imass-descdended short-lifespan humans. And the mages we've seen who've talked about Ascendancy don't seem to distinguish between Ascendants by race, except as an incidental property. Until we learn more, we have to go on the evidence presented in the series, which as far as I can see weighs against humans gaining Ascendancy except through death or something very close to it.

[champ]

jitsukerr, on 17 February 2011 - 01:53 PM, said:

champooon, on 17 February 2011 - 01:38 PM, said:

There are many paths to ascension...

Granted. But many of those paths seem to start with, Step 1 -- be born a Tiste Andii/Edur/Elder race member. Which paths are closed to Imass-descdended short-lifespan humans. And the mages we've seen who've talked about Ascendancy don't seem to distinguish between Ascendants by race, except as an incidental property. Until we learn more, we have to go on the evidence presented in the series, which as far as I can see weighs against humans gaining Ascendancy except through death or something very close to it.

Agree with the one exception... Dassem! Though I guess his refusal of death could count!

[SiriusL]

champooon, on 17 February 2011 - 02:25 PM, said:

jitsukerr, on 17 February 2011 - 01:53 PM, said:

champooon, on 17 February 2011 - 01:38 PM, said:

There are many paths to ascension...

Granted. But many of those paths seem to start with, Step 1 -- be born a Tiste Andii/Edur/Elder race member. Which paths are closed to Imass-descdended short-lifespan humans. And the mages we've seen who've talked about Ascendancy don't seem to distinguish between Ascendants by race, except as an incidental property. Until we learn more, we have to go on the evidence presented in the series, which as far as I can see weighs against humans gaining Ascendancy except through death or something very close to it.

Agree with the one exception... Dassem! Though I guess his refusal of death could count!

From what we can tell, Baruk (and possibly the entire T'orrud Cabal) are ascended and there is no indication that they died or even came close. Baruk is the one who makes the quote about "many paths."

As for Fiddler, I think he's been set up from the beginning to become a god of sorts. He is not just worshipped by sappers, but has been a legend from the beginning. If you recall DG, he changed his name to Strings because he wanted to be more anonymous. And it didn't work! He has taken the mantle of the Bridgeburners and carried it forward to become the pre-eminent Bonehunter.

I don't think he is a god yet, though he might have ascended. I definitely think he could become one at some point. On the third hand, SE might be setting him up for tragedy, insofar as the Bonehunters exploits will be unwitnessed. It would be kind of a fitting theme.

[hansebee]

It is mentioned on several occasions, that if someone just has enough people worshipping him, it *could* make that person ascend. (vice versa SE talks many times about how STOPPING to worship a god /higher being, it can cause more than a headache..

No wonder Fid is reluctant to have the other Sappers "worship the ground he walks on"

[Aertheron]

I don't think the power of an ascendant has anything to do with how her or she has ascended.

Obviously if you are a God (ascendant with worshippers) having many worshippers makes you stronger, even if it is just referred strenght, 1 man can only be so strong, while 1 man leading 1.000.000.000 people is much much more powerful.
In All 10 books of the main series, I don't see explained anywhere what ascendancy actually is. SE describes Ascendants, but he doesn't define what an Ascendant is. (or I must have missed it)

I don't think you need to die to become an ascendant, I think that it is one path, and for humans because they are so short lived it is one of the "easier" ways.
As with the Bridgeburners, Long dead and gone BB's Ascended because Fiddler Went back to Raraku where the BB's where "born" as a Unit. after receiving the Tanno Spirit Walker Song (blessing), this means any BB that dies or has died, becomes an Ascendant.

As Baruk states in the books: There are many paths to Ascendancy.
I wish he would also have explained what exactly it means to be an Ascendant.

What we know for sure is that it means they are powerfull in some way, either physically, mentally, magically, or in some other way.
But don't forget, it is very dangerous for an Ascendant to mess with Mortals, especially if those mortals are the likes of Quick Ben or Fiddler or Etc.
Being powerfull does not mean they are PWN proof.