Malazan Empire: Questions concering TCG story - Spoilers - Eye bleeding Spoilers! - Malazan Empire

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Questions concering TCG story - Spoilers - Eye bleeding Spoilers! Rate Topic: -----

#141 User is offline   I AM THE SNAIL 

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:40 AM

View PostDefiance, on 21 July 2012 - 01:15 AM, said:

View PostSpidermule, on 20 July 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

regarding nefarious bredd

Tarr and co made nefarious up. But maybe the bonehunters actually believed in him.
As a result nefarious bredd came to be. (as the god of the bonehunters?)


Or, it could just be a fun little metafiction nudge from Erikson.

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#142 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 05:58 AM

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#143 User is offline   Charade 

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:49 PM

Read the first couple of pages (finished the book last night), but couldn't see anything that particularly cleared anything up re: the Errant and Silverfox, who I thought were supposed to be major characters (especially Silverfox--Gardens of the Moon was supposed to begin the series, but in terms of important characters in that book and in the rest of the series, there are few). Tiny bit of bitching as well in that I thought Ganoes was SE's wittiest character by far and there is little clarification in the end about his importance to the storyline as master of the deck (+someone with hound inside him) should have gotten a bit more in the last 7 books than a tiny bit in Bonehunters and 30 pages in Crippled God.

For what it's worth I feel I have something to contribute (for once)--I think it's implied that the Bonehunters eventually return to Malaz and either re-enlist or disband, or something, because there is a mention of Grub in either House of Chains or Bonehunters as being the future first sword of the empire in one of SE's little excerpts at the beginning of chapters.

Quick edit, for what it's worth--obviously Ges and Stormy made use of their ascendancy to withstand Sinn's firepower but I thought it would have been a very nice finish to make them gods of war. Seeing as how they were human-ish and there was a bit of an air of mystery around what would happen to them in the future, at least I thought so, it just seemed like something that could/should have happened. It's possible we haven't seen the end of them, but we probably have.

This post has been edited by Charade: 13 December 2012 - 10:56 PM

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#144 User is offline   Ruthan Good 

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:23 PM

View PostCharade, on 13 December 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

Read the first couple of pages (finished the book last night), but couldn't see anything that particularly cleared anything up re: the Errant and Silverfox, who I thought were supposed to be major characters (especially Silverfox--Gardens of the Moon was supposed to begin the series, but in terms of important characters in that book and in the rest of the series, there are few). Tiny bit of bitching as well in that I thought Ganoes was SE's wittiest character by far and there is little clarification in the end about his importance to the storyline as master of the deck (+someone with hound inside him) should have gotten a bit more in the last 7 books than a tiny bit in Bonehunters and 30 pages in Crippled God.

For what it's worth I feel I have something to contribute (for once)--I think it's implied that the Bonehunters eventually return to Malaz and either re-enlist or disband, or something, because there is a mention of Grub in either House of Chains or Bonehunters as being the future first sword of the empire in one of SE's little excerpts at the beginning of chapters.

Quick edit, for what it's worth--obviously Ges and Stormy made use of their ascendancy to withstand Sinn's firepower but I thought it would have been a very nice finish to make them gods of war. Seeing as how they were human-ish and there was a bit of an air of mystery around what would happen to them in the future, at least I thought so, it just seemed like something that could/should have happened. It's possible we haven't seen the end of them, but we probably have.


To be fair Errant played a huge part in the books... and he ultimately failed. Yeah we could see him being shafted by Draconus or have Oponn stick a coin up his hole and make it spin vigorously and eternally, but frankly he failed, and that was punishment enough for him. It may not be the traditional closure we get, but I get it.

Re Silverfox, it is widely assumed that she shows up in ICE's Assail novel. I agree how GOTM introduced so many characters and most of them faded away, but to be fair, there weren't many who survived:

Whiskeyjack and the Bridgeburners Ascended in their own way

Quick Ben and Kalam were used widely throughout the series, and in the last book their appearances largely focused on their partnership, a kind of a bring back to GOTM

Paran I agree, should have been used more throughout the entire series. That being said, ultimately, his path, his story was told. Yeah, he could explore the realms and the Azath with cards and all that, but that's not his job, and that's not the story. He is not omnipotent, just powerful with his own limits. He wanted to retire. So though I would have liked to have seen more of him in the series, his personal character arc really finished in MoI, and in BH and TCG he was more of a supporting cast member who we loved to watch. That being said, I did wish we saw more of him around.

The rest died or shown up a hell of a lot throughout the series and had their stories finished.

Nice catch on the Grub thing.

As for Gesler and Stormy ascending to become the gods of war, I believe that we haven't seen the last of them, but definitely not as gods of war, as the whole point of the ending that there are no gods of war. Gesler and Story might ascend in some other way, perhaps, and I believe that way is open to them.
I don't have time to consider things I have to consider.
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#145 User is offline   Charade 

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:40 PM

I think it's really quite open to interpretation whether or not there were gods of war, but the crucial plot point is that humans do well without them (although it changes meaning if you take human to mean, specifically, mortal). So, perhaps just a difference in interpretation.
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#146 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:45 PM

Not to contradict anything Ruthan says, cuz I agree with most of it, but to supplement it: Paran was in fact a major character in the Bonehunters. He was one of the most eventful POVs. It's easy to forget, perhaps because he was so removed from other activities until the Poliel convergence, but on a re-read you will be reminded. I do like him and wish we saw more of him in TCG for that reason, but plot-wise he was handled exactly right IMO.

Oh, and to contradict Ruthan, Stormy and Gesler did not ascend. In fact, they resisted ascendance to their dying breath, despite the path they were forced upon. I hope beyond all hope that we never see them again.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#147 User is offline   Ruthan Good 

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:46 AM

View Postworrywort, on 13 December 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

Not to contradict anything Ruthan says, cuz I agree with most of it, but to supplement it: Paran was in fact a major character in the Bonehunters. He was one of the most eventful POVs. It's easy to forget, perhaps because he was so removed from other activities until the Poliel convergence, but on a re-read you will be reminded. I do like him and wish we saw more of him in TCG for that reason, but plot-wise he was handled exactly right IMO.

Oh, and to contradict Ruthan, Stormy and Gesler did not ascend. In fact, they resisted ascendance to their dying breath, despite the path they were forced upon. I hope beyond all hope that we never see them again.



One hand offered in peace
The other hiding the blade
With friends like these
We are unmade


A flash of light
And then I thought
Was I then right?
Et tu, Worrywort?

Fair enough on Stormy and Ges.

OR? OR? ORRR?

Defender of High House Dog and Friend of Defender of High House Dog? Also, the previously perished Young Friend of Defender of High House Dog? The distant Old Man of High House Dog? And, of course, Dog of High House Dog.

Paran could be hitting the durhang pretty hard on the boat ride back to wherever?
I don't have time to consider things I have to consider.
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