[Dolmen 2.0]

I liked it.

Spoiler

Bane was really convincing and as a bad guy he had some pretty good lines. some of the things the bad guys got up to didn't REALLY make sense.

also Bane died in the most ridiculous way possible and I think the mask bit just made for a silly side story, they didnt need to explain it but I guess it was a misdirect for everything they said about talias past (stupid reveal after the "sinister birthmark only ever shown on the chosen badguy". Nolan could have done better) but still.

I liked it.

[worry]

That about sums it up nicely. Quite enjoyable, Nolan could have done better cuz the flaws were generally his...the cast knocked it out of the park. Except Matthew Modine who should be stripped of his citizenship and submitted as the prey in a "Most Dangerous Game" style hunting competition.

[Macros]

I didn't think he was that bad. He was supposed to play an annoying self serving twat, which he did quite well.

[Macros]

[Tapper]

Saw it, loved the first part, thought the resolution of the Bane / bomb bit was ridiculously cliché (although I loved what happened after that). Tom Hardy nailed it. Loved his lines and the voice. Anne Hathaway... awesome.
Bane-origin (even if intended as a red herring): thanks, but no. Cliché.
Also, apparently getting your back straightened out magically returns cartillage to your knees, elbows and other damaged joints, and cures you from walking with a stick and enables you to take any leap of faith.

All in all, the faults were in the script, which was at times marvellously spot-on (especially in dialogues) and at other times exceptionally dumb, not in the acting. Still, can't hold a candle to TDK.

[QuickTidal]

I think the Bane resolution was apt because we'd basically already seen him destroy Batman in a physical fight, break his back, and even when Bats fights him again once he's stronger he can't REALLY best him...aside from getting him basically on on the ropes (down on the ground breathing heavily)..so what do you do with a guy that strong? Well, you launch a motorbike missile at him. Problem solved.

That's how I saw it anyways.

[Tapper]

QuickTidal, on 09 August 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

I think the Bane resolution was apt because we'd basically already seen him destroy Batman in a physical fight, break his back, and even when Bats fights him again once he's stronger he can't REALLY best him...aside from getting him basically on on the ropes (down on the ground breathing heavily)..so what do you do with a guy that strong? Well, you launch a motorbike missile at him. Problem solved.

That's how I saw it anyways.

Well, I don't really mean the effective cannonblast. I was OK with that and was a large reason why Kyle even got the motorcycle.

What I do mean is the 'battle' between uniformed cops straight out of the sewers with nothing more than batons and handguns versus riot cars with cannons and convicts with automated rifles. Then that somehow degenerates into a brawl instead of a one sided massacre, in the middle of which Bats is suddenly beating Bane (even if he did punch him in the breather, which is essentially just very good tactics and the villain's stupidity of not wearing better protection).
I won't touch on the subject of Gordon dismantling the bomb, because that's just movie-logic.
There is a much worse point and that is the reactor flooding. Fox specifically told us that the reactor would blow unless he had the core (which became a seperate bomb and that one, Bats disposed of). The reactor was in fact the back-up plan to cause Gotham to blow. And in 5 months time, no-one disabled the flooding mechanics even though they knew they were there?
The reactor was also part of the reason why the resistance couldn't just abduct the truck and dispose of it somewhere in the first place.

So it isn't the Bats-Bane resolution by cannonblast that I mind, it is the entire end-game in the movie surrounding that event.

EDIT: I may have missed a piece of the puzzle because someone was trying to distract me by sticking her tongue in my ear, but even so, I can't remember anything that may have been a clue as to why there was such inconsistency between what the villains tried to do and what they had they had time for and threatened to do, as believed and understood by the protagonists and on which they planned, and the actual end-result.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 09 August 2012 - 02:27 PM

[QuickTidal]

Tapper, on 09 August 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 09 August 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

I think the Bane resolution was apt because we'd basically already seen him destroy Batman in a physical fight, break his back, and even when Bats fights him again once he's stronger he can't REALLY best him...aside from getting him basically on on the ropes (down on the ground breathing heavily)..so what do you do with a guy that strong? Well, you launch a motorbike missile at him. Problem solved.

That's how I saw it anyways.

Well, I don't really mean the effective cannonblast. I was OK with that and was a large reason why Kyle even got the motorcycle.

What I do mean is the 'battle' between uniformed cops straight out of the sewers with nothing more than batons and handguns versus riot cars with cannons and convicts with automated rifles. Then that somehow degenerates into a brawl instead of a one sided massacre, in the middle of which Bats is suddenly beating Bane (even if he did punch him in the breather, which is essentially just very good tactics and the villain's stupidity of not wearing better protection).
I won't touch on the subject of Gordon dismantling the bomb, because that's just movie-logic.
There is a much worse point and that is the reactor flooding. Fox specifically told us that the reactor would blow unless he had the core (which became a seperate bomb and that one, Bats disposed of). The reactor was in fact the back-up plan to cause Gotham to blow. And in 5 months time, no-one disabled the flooding mechanics even though they knew they were there?
The reactor was also part of the reason why the resistance couldn't just abduct the truck and dispose of it somewhere in the first place.

So it isn't the Bats-Bane resolution by cannonblast that I mind, it is the entire end-game in the movie surrounding that event.

EDIT: I may have missed a piece of the puzzle because someone was trying to distract me by sticking her tongue in my ear, but even so, I can't remember anything that may have been a clue as to why there was such inconsistency between what the villains tried to do and what they had they had time for and threatened to do, as believed and understood by the protagonists and on which they planned, and the actual end-result.

Ah, I misunderstood your complaint. My bad.

As to the brawl. This is STILL a comic book movie, regardless of the pedigree.

The flooding...I shouldn't' have to say this, but when dealing with a nuclear device...even once the villains essentially had their hands on it....one does NOT remove the safety feature (in this case flooding)....that's just stupidity of the highest calibre. No one would be dumb enough to disable that.

You have to remember that the point of the entire endeavor was No Man's Land....shut Gotham off from the rest of the country, threaten them with a bomb (a real threat VIA Bane and Co.) in the guise of a "reckoning" for bad behavior and corruptness. This actually all feeds back to Ra's Al Ghul in BB talking about the need for justice at any cost, which in turn feeds back into Talia (Miranda) Al Ghul in a basic plot for revenge against Batman/Wayne for the death of her father, plain and simple. So in the end even Bane and Co's plot was secondary to her revenge. The nuclear device, and everything leading up to and including the No Man's Land arc where Gotham is cut off for months...was a red herring for the real goal. Talia's revenge. Sure they were still planning on icing Gotham as a whole....but that plan could NOT come to fruition until Batman had returned to Gotham. See, Talia knew Bruce would get out of the Pit, and so did Bane (even though he feigned surprise when he saw him again) so they were waiting for him, the whole endgame relied on Bruce making it back to Gotham. It's why the Device was disconnected when it was so that the decay-time would be months....long enough for Bruce to return and Talia to kill him. Talia still was trying to enact her father's plan of Gotham's destruction, but she would be damned if she let it happen before he was back there to die as well.

I dunno if you missed that or didn't see the Nuclear threat as the secondary goal or not, but yeah that's what the whole third act was about.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 09 August 2012 - 02:39 PM

[Tapper]

Well, I figured that it was enough that Bats had the opportunity to return, and they did indeed set the time for that (of course, partly on the basis that if the decay-time ran out (something they couldn't control) and Gotham would still go boom, the desired result).
I didn't honestly think it mattered one bit to Talia or Bane whether or not they'd beat him again upon his return, just that Gotham went KAPOW in front of him. If he was in the city, so much better for he'd know his every effort wasn't enough, but if he was still jailed, then he'd live in the knowledge of utter failure.
Their plan was just about crushing hope, imho.

Since Talia and Bane were treating this as a suicide mission anyway, disabling the flood control would have guaranteed victory for them, even if they did so only a few days before the planned blow-date. Now, the freed riffraff wouldn't like that much, but the League of Shadows personell would have happily gone with that plan, so manpower also wasn't an issue.

But that's my two cents

EDIT: as you noticed, I didn't think Talia's desire for revenge was THAT important to her. I saw that supported by the way Bane acted, because he saw the need to defy her very last command/ request to him, ever.

I thought it was merely a bonus for her upon Bats return, given her... strained relationship with her dad, but that the goal of cleansing Gotham was still the more important issue, as it had been to Ras al'Ghul

This post has been edited by Tapper: 09 August 2012 - 02:57 PM

[QuickTidal]

Did you miss her speech to Bruce as she lay dying?

She mentions her revenge and how it was planned meticulously for his return.

As well, if you read the comics, there is NOTHING more important to Talia Al Ghul than personal, up front revenge against Bruce Wayne. Nothing, Nada. That's what her character is built around. That ties into her rocky relationship with her father, while she wanted to enact his plan of Gotham's destruction, it was far more important to get personal revenge on Bruce.

I quote Die Hard W/ A Vengeance: Simon Gruber: " There's a difference, you know, between not liking one's brother and not caring when some dumb Irish flatfoot drops him out of a window. "

[Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy]

I still haven't figured out why Bruce Wayne's fingerprints are so important that Selina Kyle steals them, and what they are used for exactly. Can you somebody please enlighten me?

[Tapper]

Miss Savage, on 15 August 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

I still haven't figured out why Bruce Wayne's fingerprints are so important that Selina Kyle steals them, and what they are used for exactly. Can you somebody please enlighten me?

They were needed for the authorization of the stock exchange put options that beggared Bruce Wayne, which in turn put ruin to the Wayne Enterprises stock during/after the Bane hijack of it, iirc.

[Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy]

Tapper, on 15 August 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Miss Savage, on 15 August 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

I still haven't figured out why Bruce Wayne's fingerprints are so important that Selina Kyle steals them, and what they are used for exactly. Can you somebody please enlighten me?

They were needed for the authorization of the stock exchange put options that beggared Bruce Wayne, which in turn put ruin to the Wayne Enterprises stock during/after the Bane hijack of it, iirc.

That makes an awful lot of sense.
Thanks Tapper, much obliged.

[QuickTidal]

There is a lot going on in the film, two of my friends questioned how a poor Bruce Wayne got back to the States from the Pit after he escaped, and missed the wad of bills that Wayne stuffs in that brown sack he ties to himself before the escape, which I assume he got from the prisoners, or the Doctor. Either way, it's REALLY easy to miss stuff in such a jam packed film.

[Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy]

QuickTidal, on 15 August 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

There is a lot going on in the film, two of my friends questioned how a poor Bruce Wayne got back to the States from the Pit after he escaped, and missed the wad of bills that Wayne stuffs in that brown sack he ties to himself before the escape, which I assume he got from the prisoners, or the Doctor. Either way, it's REALLY easy to miss stuff in such a jam packed film.

I must go and see it again, exactly because of what you said. I should be able to pay more attention to the details because I have seen it already once.

[Primateus]

Tapper, on 15 August 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Miss Savage, on 15 August 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

I still haven't figured out why Bruce Wayne's fingerprints are so important that Selina Kyle steals them, and what they are used for exactly. Can you somebody please enlighten me?

They were needed for the authorization of the stock exchange put options that beggared Bruce Wayne, which in turn put ruin to the Wayne Enterprises stock during/after the Bane hijack of it, iirc.

That just doesn't make any sense. I can't believe any courtroom would even remotely believe that Bruce Wayne sold all his stuff, and on the same day as criminals raided the stock exchange. It seems like it would have been the easiest thing in the world for Wayne to prove that he didn't authorize that sale even though his prints were used.

[Tapper]

Primateus, on 16 August 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

Tapper, on 15 August 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Miss Savage, on 15 August 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

I still haven't figured out why Bruce Wayne's fingerprints are so important that Selina Kyle steals them, and what they are used for exactly. Can you somebody please enlighten me?

They were needed for the authorization of the stock exchange put options that beggared Bruce Wayne, which in turn put ruin to the Wayne Enterprises stock during/after the Bane hijack of it, iirc.

That just doesn't make any sense. I can't believe any courtroom would even remotely believe that Bruce Wayne sold all his stuff, and on the same day as criminals raided the stock exchange. It seems like it would have been the easiest thing in the world for Wayne to prove that he didn't authorize that sale even though his prints were used.

I can't see a better explanation, as the plot originated with Bane's employer (who requested the fingerprints), and his goal was limited to the acquisition of Wayne Enterprises.

Fox specifically refers to the situation being reversible and that it can be proven in court, but that it will take time.

[QuickTidal]

Primateus, on 16 August 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

Tapper, on 15 August 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Miss Savage, on 15 August 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

I still haven't figured out why Bruce Wayne's fingerprints are so important that Selina Kyle steals them, and what they are used for exactly. Can you somebody please enlighten me?

They were needed for the authorization of the stock exchange put options that beggared Bruce Wayne, which in turn put ruin to the Wayne Enterprises stock during/after the Bane hijack of it, iirc.

That just doesn't make any sense. I can't believe any courtroom would even remotely believe that Bruce Wayne sold all his stuff, and on the same day as criminals raided the stock exchange. It seems like it would have been the easiest thing in the world for Wayne to prove that he didn't authorize that sale even though his prints were used.

You assume that Bane and Co. CARED about a courtroom. They didn't, nor did they need to, after the stock exchange they methodically went about dismantling Gotham's infrastructure. The cops were put underground, and the businessmen and lawmakers were being slowly exiled, or put over the ice by Jonathan Crane. By the time all was said and done, anything that might help in a future court case to support the fact that Wayne didn't totally beggar himself (he did allow a lot of his business to end up in the hole himself) would be long, long gone.

[Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy]

QuickTidal, on 16 August 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Primateus, on 16 August 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

Tapper, on 15 August 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

Miss Savage, on 15 August 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

I still haven't figured out why Bruce Wayne's fingerprints are so important that Selina Kyle steals them, and what they are used for exactly. Can you somebody please enlighten me?

They were needed for the authorization of the stock exchange put options that beggared Bruce Wayne, which in turn put ruin to the Wayne Enterprises stock during/after the Bane hijack of it, iirc.

That just doesn't make any sense. I can't believe any courtroom would even remotely believe that Bruce Wayne sold all his stuff, and on the same day as criminals raided the stock exchange. It seems like it would have been the easiest thing in the world for Wayne to prove that he didn't authorize that sale even though his prints were used.

You assume that Bane and Co. CARED about a courtroom. They didn't, nor did they need to, after the stock exchange they methodically went about dismantling Gotham's infrastructure. The cops were put underground, and the businessmen and lawmakers were being slowly exiled, or put over the ice by Jonathan Crane. By the time all was said and done, anything that might help in a future court case to support the fact that Wayne didn't totally beggar himself (he did allow a lot of his business to end up in the hole himself) would be long, long gone.

It makes sense considering the fact that there is the fusion reactor turned bomb, which is going to explode and obliterate-erase-annihilate a possible future Gotham and all of its court rooms. Ultimately, it doesn't matter.

[frookenhauer]

Finally saw it today at the imax, it was worth the money and the utterly, utterly ridiculous wait to get seats, especially the premier ones. The UK needs more imax's

great finale to the best movie trilogy EVER! (before you say what about godfather...don't forget part 3)

This is my first time at an imax cinema and I have really been missing out. The screen was far and away of a different class to normal cinemas and the sound was AWESOME!