[FantasyAndLogic]

So I am 250 pages(Mass Market Paperback Edition) or so short of finishing House of Chains and am having trouble getting through it. The non-human POV segments seem so dull, especially Karsa's POV parts. All he does is seem to travel.

Anyway, the biggest problem I've had with this book is it seems hes presenting so much information which I can't comprehend because I don't know the background well enough. Most specifically the politics which are taking place inside the whirlwind. Meanas, the Throne of Shadow, and the implications of the "elder hounds" among others also seem difficult to comprehend.


Anyway, I don't really want to rant. Mostly I am looking for some motivation to finish this book and a reason to pick up Midnight Tides afterwards. If the following books are anything like the first three books, which were some of my favorite books (Deadhouse gates being one of my all time favorites), then I'll probably keep reading.

So help me out. I need some motivation! I don't want to quite the series but I also want to enjoy reading it!

[Sindriss]

You have to accept that the world in which the malazan series take place (some call it Wu) is ancient. This is the reason you only get some parts of the history in a pov, as it is nearly impossible for a person to gather everything by themselves.
What I mean is that the information can be become hard to comprehend, but this only enriches the series as there are a lot of details that you only find out on the second or third reread

On the note of Midnight tides, it won't be much like any of the three first books as it is a different continent with a different cast of characters. Yet, this should not impede you, as the book is continually ranked among the best books of the series. Hard to explain why that is, you will just have to trust SE and us and begin exploring it.

[Studlock]

You have Tehol and Bugg to look foward to among other characters in Midnight Tides, of course that means nothing to you now but it will. As for House of Chains isn't one the best he has written but iirc the ending is quite good but if you don't enjoy the non-humans POVs I really can't pump up other than Kalam and Quick Ben unite, a god descends and Karsa's POVs get better.

[TheSurvivor]

Personally HoC is my least favourite of the series and that's mostly due to Karsa's prominent role and I don't much care for him. However, the building of the Bonehunters is good stuff as you probably already know and leads into The Bonehunters which is tied for my favourite book of the series. I'll semi-agree with Studlock as well. The ending was good, once I got past some things I found hard to swallow I really enjoyed other aspects but one in particular. Won't say what it is cause of spoilers. But yeah, ending is worth reading. As for what comes next, Midnight Tides will be enjoyable if you keep an open mind about finding yourself completely disconnected from everything you've already read. Then comes The Bonehunters and Reaper's Gale, both I really enjoyed, and then Toll The Hounds which has a lot of bits of information towards past events and deals with new gods and has perhaps the most emotional death in the entire series thus far. Not for me personally but for many others. Finally, you're on Dust of Dreams which is like a giant prologue to The Crippled God - how can you not read that? So, I'm saying you should most definitely soldier on if only to see how the series that hooked your interest ends.

[Defiance]

Don't...like...Karsa? How...why...I don't understand...how could...

*shakes head and leaves*

[amphibian]

Defiance, on 27 December 2010 - 09:05 PM, said:

Don't...like...Karsa? How...why...I don't understand...how could...

I have the same reaction every time someone says this.

Enough people do it that we must be missing something. What's not to like about a gigantic barbarian who starts off enormously prideful and smashing things, gets humbled at nearly every opportunity, learns from it, gets sneaky smart and goes on to become one of the most truly epic characters ever written?

[ansible]

amphibian, on 27 December 2010 - 09:21 PM, said:

Defiance, on 27 December 2010 - 09:05 PM, said:

Don't...like...Karsa? How...why...I don't understand...how could...

I have the same reaction every time someone says this.

Enough people do it that we must be missing something. What's not to like about a gigantic barbarian who starts off enormously prideful and smashing things, gets humbled at nearly every opportunity, learns from it, gets sneaky smart and goes on to become one of the most truly epic characters ever written?

Amen, brothers.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

amphibian, on 27 December 2010 - 09:21 PM, said:

Defiance, on 27 December 2010 - 09:05 PM, said:

Don't...like...Karsa? How...why...I don't understand...how could...

I have the same reaction every time someone says this.

Enough people do it that we must be missing something. What's not to like about a gigantic barbarian who starts off enormously prideful and smashing things, gets humbled at nearly every opportunity, learns from it, gets sneaky smart and goes on to become one of the most truly epic characters ever written?

Maybe because at least at the beginning Karsa isn't humbled every time he gets smacked around.He just acts more arrogant. I'm not saying he doesn't grow but it surely isn't in HoC. As I have said a lot of times, what saved Karsa as a character for me is his relationship with Samar Dev in TBH and later books

[amphibian]

Bauchelain the Evil, on 28 December 2010 - 11:46 AM, said:

Maybe because at least at the beginning Karsa isn't humbled every time he gets smacked around.He just acts more arrogant. I'm not saying he doesn't grow but it surely isn't in HoC. As I have said a lot of times, what saved Karsa as a character for me is his relationship with Samar Dev in TBH and later books

Getting knocked out by a Forkul Assail, getting enslaved, getting recaptured and chained, having to rely upon a human to escape the chains/drowning, having to rely upon the slaver to get out of the warren, getting knocked out by Keeper with a gut punch, getting recaptured and tattooed and having to rely upon humans to escape yet again isn't changing him?

He grows after every one of these. By the time he leaves the desert post-Shaik 1, he's far smarter and far more aware of the dangers out there that are strong enough even for him (excepting the Icarium thing). He develops a ton in HoC. In tBH is when the sneaky smart stuff starts coming out.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 28 December 2010 - 04:56 PM

[End of Disc One]

Karsa's journey in book 3 of HoC is one of my favorite threads in the series. It was awesome watching this living legend in the making get underestimated by long time legends. Great worldbuilding was done in the process.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

amphibian, on 28 December 2010 - 04:55 PM, said:

Bauchelain the Evil, on 28 December 2010 - 11:46 AM, said:

Maybe because at least at the beginning Karsa isn't humbled every time he gets smacked around.He just acts more arrogant. I'm not saying he doesn't grow but it surely isn't in HoC. As I have said a lot of times, what saved Karsa as a character for me is his relationship with Samar Dev in TBH and later books

Getting knocked out by a Forkul Assail, getting enslaved, getting recaptured and chained, having to rely upon a human to escape the chains/drowning, having to rely upon the slaver to get out of the warren, getting knocked out by Keeper with a gut punch, getting recaptured and tattooed and having to rely upon humans to escape yet again isn't changing him?

He grows after every one of these. By the time he leaves the desert post-Shaik 1, he's far smarter and far more aware of the dangers out there that are strong enough even for him (excepting the Icarium thing). He develops a ton in HoC. In tBH is when the sneaky smart stuff starts coming out.

Clealy not, seeing how meeting Icarium he immediately wants to fight against him simply because Ryllandaras told him he was a powerful guy even though Icarium and Mappo didn't do anything to him.

Oh and after Keeper knocked him out with a punch he was all like : "meh it really wasn't that strong"

[Suraklin]

Keep going - HoC was my hardest slog of the set because it takes you away from a lot of what you have gotten used to in the first 3 books. I certainly find Karsa's section the hardest of that book simply because I found little redeeming in his character at that point - but as others have said he becomes a mu8ch more fleshed out and mature character down the line.

MT (bk 5) - is a totally new part of the world. I might help you going in if you realise that Midnight Tides is essentially the back story that one character is about to tell at the end of HoC. There are some superb characters in it and, if you like that sort of thing, some deep but comic social commentary on western culture.

Book 6 simply rocks as it brings many old friends back into play & book 7 really starts to join up bk5 to the rest of the epic. At this sort of time you get to delve off into ICE's books for some parallel tales of characters you mostly only hear about in the SE cycle.

And then the revelations and pay offs that we get in bks 8 & 9 leave you gasping for the final chapter

Even if you have to struggle through the rest of this book what is coming makes it worthwhile - and if, like me, you re-read then you will find that HoC is a much more enjoyable read once you understand what it is setting up & the later importance of characters you might not even fully notice now, sometimes in a series of this scale an author has to do some spadework. HoC contains a good chunk of that... but if you think SE gets convoluted he is Mr Exposition compared to Janny Wurts!

[Crow Clan Baby]

Midnight Tides is one of the best in the series (I'd rank it 2nd after Deadhouse), and despite throwing you into a new continent with all new characters, is incredibly accessible.

House of Chains is a strange book. I didn't really like it first time through either, but when I went back for a re-read a few years later I realised how utterly pivotal it is to the whole series. Definitely the one that improves the most on a re-read, and a lot of what you find annoying or confusing is suddenly crystal clear and awesome.