[Jake]

I am rereading the series, and i ran across something that I did not notice on my first read through (that happened a lot, but this one I had to post about). Now before I go into theory mode, I would like to say that this is all based on my remembering

Spoiler

of the Bottle/Eres'al storyline. I seem to remember the Eres'al "stealing his seed" or something of the like. Now, I read a section in Midnight Tides that gives the Nerek's version of how they came into existance.

(Not sure how to quote things, so I'll just type it out). "They were all born of a single mother, countless generations past, who was the thief of fire and walked through time, seeking that which might answer a need that consumed her - although she could never discover the nature of that need. One time, in her journey, she took within her a sacred seed, and so gave birth to a girl-child. To all outward appearances,' he contined, 'that child was little different from her mother, for the sacredness was hidden, and so it remains hidden to this day. Within the Nerek, who are the offspring of that child."

Now, my question is:

Spoiler

If the Eres'al "spontaneously" became impregnated, could that not have been the product of Bottle's pseudo-time travel romp with her? Did Bottle beget the Nerek, or am I insane?

Thanks, Jake.

[D'rek]

It could be, but it might not be, too. Eres'al romps about through time at will, who knows how many times she's been impregnated or where and when the children have been born.

In the Nerek's case, assuming that the one they believe is their singular ancestor is in fact born of the Eres'al and is related to other events within the book, I would put more money on it being the child of Trull from when the Eres'al attacked/raped him in Tellann in HoC. This because the Nerek seem to have a connection to the Tiste Edur, as revealed by their gaining power from being blessed by the virgin Edur Mayen.

Other characters with a connection to the Eres'al also include Kettle, T'amber and Grub, so crazy theories abound.

Lastly, I'm not sure if it's ever clear whether Bottle actually did the boogie-woo with Eres'al - I thought she just, erm, "played" with him...

This post has been edited by D'rek: 18 December 2010 - 06:06 PM

[Jake]

D, on 18 December 2010 - 06:05 PM, said:

It could be, but it might not be, too. Eres'al romps about through time at will, who knows how many times she's been impregnated or where and when the children have been born.

In the Nerek's case, assuming that the one they believe is their singular ancestor is in fact born of the Eres'al and is related to other events within the book, I would put more money on it being the child of Trull from when the Eres'al attacked/raped him in Tellann in HoC. This because the Nerek seem to have a connection to the Tiste Edur, as revealed by their gaining power from being blessed by the virgin Edur Mayen.

Other characters with a connection to the Eres'al also include Kettle, T'amber and Grub, so crazy theories abound.

Lastly, I'm not sure if it's ever clear whether Bottle actually did the boogie-woo with Eres'al - I thought she just, erm, "played" with him...

So, this is giving me the idea that several of the races whose existence is unexplained are in fact birthed from the Eres'al and her crazy time-jumpy-awesomeness. Obviously, the various Tiste races can be explained, but what of the Imass, or even the random cat-creatures briefly mentioned in Memories of Ice (I think)?

This post has been edited by Jake: 18 December 2010 - 06:12 PM

[D'rek]

Jake, on 18 December 2010 - 06:11 PM, said:

D, on 18 December 2010 - 06:05 PM, said:

It could be, but it might not be, too. Eres'al romps about through time at will, who knows how many times she's been impregnated or where and when the children have been born.

In the Nerek's case, assuming that the one they believe is their singular ancestor is in fact born of the Eres'al and is related to other events within the book, I would put more money on it being the child of Trull from when the Eres'al attacked/raped him in Tellann in HoC. This because the Nerek seem to have a connection to the Tiste Edur, as revealed by their gaining power from being blessed by the virgin Edur Mayen.

Other characters with a connection to the Eres'al also include Kettle, T'amber and Grub, so crazy theories abound.

Lastly, I'm not sure if it's ever clear whether Bottle actually did the boogie-woo with Eres'al - I thought she just, erm, "played" with him...

So, this is giving me the idea that several of the races whose existence is unexplained are in fact birthed from the Eres'al and her crazy time-jumpy-awesomeness. Obviouly, the various Tiste races can be explained, but what of the Imass, or even the random cat-creatures briefly mentioned in Memories of Ice (I think)?

The Eres and their more closely associated sub-races (Tasse, Nerek) are pretty distinctively different in features from Imass and humans. The cat people in MoI were just humans who climbed/lived on big nets over the bay of Coral. It is generally accepted that humans and Imass have progressively grown and evolved in a similar manner to the way Home Sapiens and Homo Erectus (or is that the Eres? Neanderthals anyways) have here on Earth, though likely with some interference from each other and other races like the Eres.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 18 December 2010 - 06:14 PM

[Jake]

D, on 18 December 2010 - 06:13 PM, said:

Jake, on 18 December 2010 - 06:11 PM, said:

D, on 18 December 2010 - 06:05 PM, said:

It could be, but it might not be, too. Eres'al romps about through time at will, who knows how many times she's been impregnated or where and when the children have been born.

In the Nerek's case, assuming that the one they believe is their singular ancestor is in fact born of the Eres'al and is related to other events within the book, I would put more money on it being the child of Trull from when the Eres'al attacked/raped him in Tellann in HoC. This because the Nerek seem to have a connection to the Tiste Edur, as revealed by their gaining power from being blessed by the virgin Edur Mayen.

Other characters with a connection to the Eres'al also include Kettle, T'amber and Grub, so crazy theories abound.

Lastly, I'm not sure if it's ever clear whether Bottle actually did the boogie-woo with Eres'al - I thought she just, erm, "played" with him...

So, this is giving me the idea that several of the races whose existence is unexplained are in fact birthed from the Eres'al and her crazy time-jumpy-awesomeness. Obviouly, the various Tiste races can be explained, but what of the Imass, or even the random cat-creatures briefly mentioned in Memories of Ice (I think)?

The Eres and their more closely associated sub-races (Tasse, Nerek) are pretty distinctively different in features from Imass and humans. The cat people in MoI were just humans who climbed/lived on big nets over the bay of Coral. It is generally accepted that humans and Imass have progressively grown and evolved in a similar manner to the way Home Sapiens and Homo Erectus (or is that the Eres? Neanderthals anyways) have here on Earth, though likely with some interference from each other and other races like the Eres.

Ah, crazy theory crushed by a forum regular. What you are saying makes sense, but I thought for a second I had noticed something not everyone noticed. I hope I continue to find items to post about while finishing my re-read. It has been a lot of fun, although i find little to post about, as what i discover has usually been covered by someone else once I check the forum.

[Ceda Cicero]

Quote

"They were all born of a single mother, countless generations past, who was the thief of fire and walked through time, seeking that which might answer a need that consumed her - although she could never discover the nature of that need. One time, in her journey, she took within her a sacred seed, and so gave birth to a girl-child. To all outward appearances,' he contined, 'that child was little different from her mother, for the sacredness was hidden, and so it remains hidden to this day. Within the Nerek, who are the offspring of that child."

What if the girl child mentioned here is the Eres'al, and - true to her claim in DoD - the mother is Olar Ethil? From what we know of her relationship with the Ritual of Tellan, this would certainly fit with the "thief of fire" portion.

[Aptorian]

Apsalar was the one that stole the fire. Olar Ethil is the one who gifted it. Whether any of those stories are accurate is anyone's guess.

[HoosierDaddy]

Whatever happened to Apsalara as the thief of fire? Just a myth born of her thieving ways and the Imass connection with Tellan?

[MTS]

Jenisapt Rul, on 18 December 2010 - 08:31 PM, said:

Apsalar was the one that stole the fire. Olar Ethil is the one who gifted it. Whether any of those stories are accurate is anyone's guess.

Silanah actually gave fire to the Imass; it was Olar who asked for it according to the three dragons in BH. Where Apsal'ara fits into this is anyone's guess I think. The story about her trying to steal the moon is based in fact though, so perhaps the fire one is too.

[Hetan]

It is explained in Toll the Hounds how the Eres evolved into the Imass, how their hunting habits changed, they became shorter and squatter etc etc. So the OP is not wrong in their assumption.