Malazan Empire: Assail - Malazan Empire

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#21 User is offline   WhiskeyJackDaniels 

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 05:08 AM

View Postmostly.harmless, on 01 December 2010 - 04:51 AM, said:

View PostThe Seguleh 46th, on 01 December 2010 - 03:44 AM, said:

View Postmostly.harmless, on 01 December 2010 - 12:18 AM, said:

Hmm. Currently at work so I can't check the [relevant] book, but I clearly seem to remember that a T'lan Imass somewhere reminisces on how she was fighting one of the human tyrants or kings and that right at that moment they were ordered to retreat.
I can't remember the book but it feels recent, so IŽd go with TtH, DoD or RotCG.
Wehehe.


I think its DoD with one of the T'lan Imass talking about getting the closest to The Bearded One (?), possibly wounding him. Red Spires something maybe? Think there is another thead somewhere speculating on that, as i was thinking it was the Three mage-kings of Shal-Morzinn (sp.?), but as far as i recall there hasn't been anything really concrete on who or what they are, or for that matter, who the heck The Bearded One is. Could be wrong though....


Ah, I think you're right, some distant bells are ringing.
Shall-Morzinn, not quite the same as Assail, oops.

For some reason this Island/Land/Kingdom/whatever-they-are fascinates me more than Assail. Unless they're the same and this is one of those 'duh' moments where I just like one name and description more than another, although they are just two points of view on the same object/subject.


No, they are different places. Assail is its own continent which we have very little information on. Shal-Morzinn is, I think, an island off the coast of Seven Cities? I'm sure someone more well versed in the geography of the world can give you the location. Really we have almost no information on that place either despite its apparent awesomeness though. Its ruled by 3 mage kings, apparently has red spires, repelled an attack by T'lan Imass at one point (probably), and (perhaps most interesting) Kellanved and Dancer decided not to try to conquer it for the Malazan Empire because it would have been too costly. Also I think there is a deserter of it floating around somewhere in the Bonehunter army.
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#22 User is offline   Jorram 

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 06:40 AM

View PostWhiskeyJackDaniels, on 01 December 2010 - 05:08 AM, said:


No, they are different places. Assail is its own continent which we have very little information on. Shal-Morzinn is, I think, an island off the coast of Seven Cities? I'm sure someone more well versed in the geography of the world can give you the location. Really we have almost no information on that place either despite its apparent awesomeness though. Its ruled by 3 mage kings, apparently has red spires, repelled an attack by T'lan Imass at one point (probably), and (perhaps most interesting) Kellanved and Dancer decided not to try to conquer it for the Malazan Empire because it would have been too costly. Also I think there is a deserter of it floating around somewhere in the Bonehunter army.


I think it's rather a part of the Seven Cities continent than an island off its coast, and the deserter was to my dim memories rather on the ships of Rhulad's emissaries but other than that you've summed it up quite well :)
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#23 User is offline   The Seguleh 46th 

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 07:40 AM

View PostWhiskeyJackDaniels, on 01 December 2010 - 05:08 AM, said:

No, they are different places. Assail is its own continent which we have very little information on. Shal-Morzinn is, I think, an island off the coast of Seven Cities? I'm sure someone more well versed in the geography of the world can give you the location. Really we have almost no information on that place either despite its apparent awesomeness though. Its ruled by 3 mage kings, apparently has red spires, repelled an attack by T'lan Imass at one point (probably), and (perhaps most interesting) Kellanved and Dancer decided not to try to conquer it for the Malazan Empire because it would have been too costly. Also I think there is a deserter of it floating around somewhere in the Bonehunter army.


Onearm's Host, or rather Paran's Host now. A Fist or Sub-Fist, IIRC. She was in the plague tent and asked Paran to fill her up with oil and burn her when she died, as that's what they did back in her Shal-Morzinn (i think she survived, but that detail i'm not completely sure of).
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#24 User is offline   Lister of Smeg 

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 06:53 PM

It's Fist Rythe Bude of Onearm's Host and she did survive.

My pet theory is that the Three are Tiste Liosan ruling over Shal-Morzinn. Their isolationist policy (a very strong dislike of foreigners, in fact) and the fact that Rythe Bude wanted her body burned are hints in that direction.
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#25 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 07:13 PM

View PostDefiance, on 28 November 2010 - 04:26 PM, said:

View PostTheSurvivor, on 28 November 2010 - 07:52 AM, said:

Personally I'm hoping for a human tyrant or several because that just fascinates me more. I mean if it's Jaghut then there's nothing new there. Could be that, to the whole experimentation point, the humans were upgraded and there was a revolt. Dead (or perhaps enslaved?) Jaghut with a mass of humans walking around with some powerade sporting a slightly off-balance mental state. Ah, a wait never seems longer than when you're speculating.


Agreed. I'm sure it'll still be interesting if it's a Jaghut tyrant, but it's going to be infinitely more interesting if it's a human one.


Thirded that i hope its 'just' human, tho that still opens up a number of possibilities. I wonder if the conflict between Jaghut and FA continued after those had died off and 'their' humans kept on fighting.


Re Shal-Morizin i cannot remember what the hint was but i also thought the neo Imass fought the three mage kings.
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#26 User is offline   The Seguleh 46th 

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 12:00 AM

View PostLister of Smeg, on 01 December 2010 - 06:53 PM, said:

It's Fist Rythe Bude of Onearm's Host and she did survive.

My pet theory is that the Three are Tiste Liosan ruling over Shal-Morzinn. Their isolationist policy (a very strong dislike of foreigners, in fact) and the fact that Rythe Bude wanted her body burned are hints in that direction.


Might be a stupid point here on my part, but can Tiste Liosan even grow beards (Sun worship, heat, blinding light and all that make for non-beard sporting weather i would think! hehe)? Then again, that's also me blithely assuming The Bearded One is in fact one of the Three Mage-Kings of Shal-Morzinn.....

Other than that, i can see where the TL might make for a solid theory, but i just personally don't see it. I think they are human, possibly Ascended, but i also have nothing to base this off of either.....

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 02 December 2010 - 12:01 AM

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#27 User is offline   Rashan 

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 09:29 AM

maybe assail is full of full blood tarthenal toblakai?

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 10:02 AM

Nope, human tyrants. :)
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#29 User is offline   champ 

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 06:45 PM

Hedge and Emroth in RG... Will add a bit before to set the scene...

A hint...

Quote

"I sense no power from you," Emroth said, head tilting a fraction. "Nothing. You are not even here."
Hedge smiled again, and slowly withdrew a cusser from beneath his raincape. He held it up between them. "Is this, Emorth?"
"I do not know what that is."
"Aye, but is it even here?"
"No. Like you it is an illusion."
"An illusion, or a manifestation of the will? My will?
"There is no value in the distinction," the T'lan Imass asserted.
"You cannot see the truth within me, for the vision you'd need to see it is not within you. You threw it away, at the Ritual. You wilfully blinded yourselves to the one thing that can destroy you. That is, perhaps, destroying your kind even now - some trouble on the continent of Assail, yes? I have vague recollections of somebody hearing something... well, never mind that. The point here, Emorth, is this: you cannot understand me because you cannot see me. Beyond, that is, what I have willed into existance - this body, this cusser, this face-"


But a hint to what..?

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#30 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:34 AM

View Postchampooon, on 05 December 2010 - 06:45 PM, said:

Hedge and Emroth in RG... Will add a bit before to set the scene...

A hint...

Quote

"I sense no power from you," Emroth said, head tilting a fraction. "Nothing. You are not even here."
Hedge smiled again, and slowly withdrew a cusser from beneath his raincape. He held it up between them. "Is this, Emorth?"
"I do not know what that is."
"Aye, but is it even here?"
"No. Like you it is an illusion."
"An illusion, or a manifestation of the will? My will?
"There is no value in the distinction," the T'lan Imass asserted.
"You cannot see the truth within me, for the vision you'd need to see it is not within you. You threw it away, at the Ritual. You wilfully blinded yourselves to the one thing that can destroy you. That is, perhaps, destroying your kind even now - some trouble on the continent of Assail, yes? I have vague recollections of somebody hearing something... well, never mind that. The point here, Emorth, is this: you cannot understand me because you cannot see me. Beyond, that is, what I have willed into existance - this body, this cusser, this face-"


But a hint to what..?




With the Assail brothers in RotCG making an off-hand comment on Stoop's ghost being like back home, I would think there is some major life-and-death magics going on in Assail. Something that can result in ghosts of the dead, and likewise can affect T'lan Imass (give a T'lan Imass magic life and does it die from being 300 000 years old?)

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#31 User is offline   champ 

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:03 AM

View PostD, on 10 December 2010 - 02:34 AM, said:

View Postchampooon, on 05 December 2010 - 06:45 PM, said:

Hedge and Emroth in RG... Will add a bit before to set the scene...

A hint...

Quote

"I sense no power from you," Emroth said, head tilting a fraction. "Nothing. You are not even here."
Hedge smiled again, and slowly withdrew a cusser from beneath his raincape. He held it up between them. "Is this, Emorth?"
"I do not know what that is."
"Aye, but is it even here?"
"No. Like you it is an illusion."
"An illusion, or a manifestation of the will? My will?
"There is no value in the distinction," the T'lan Imass asserted.
"You cannot see the truth within me, for the vision you'd need to see it is not within you. You threw it away, at the Ritual. You wilfully blinded yourselves to the one thing that can destroy you. That is, perhaps, destroying your kind even now - some trouble on the continent of Assail, yes? I have vague recollections of somebody hearing something... well, never mind that. The point here, Emorth, is this: you cannot understand me because you cannot see me. Beyond, that is, what I have willed into existance - this body, this cusser, this face-"


But a hint to what..?




With the Assail brothers in RotCG making an off-hand comment on Stoop's ghost being like back home, I would think there is some major life-and-death magics going on in Assail. Something that can result in ghosts of the dead, and likewise can affect T'lan Imass (give a T'lan Imass magic life and does it die from being 300 000 years old?)



Yah my first reaction was to think about their souls and how this could effect them, maybe they're given their life back and with the realisation of what they've left behind, well that would be enough to destroy anyone... I keep thinking that it's like Letherii with no Hold of Death then I remember back to the quote about Hoods priests/mages... maybe Hood is pre-eminence over everyone else giving them some silky death magic...

But God, please... as long as it doesn't go down the Harry Potter route of... love...

Tehol said:

'Yet my heart breaks for a naked hen.'
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#32 User is offline   Tattersail_ 

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:54 AM

how about the ghosts actually possessing the T'Lan Imass so that they fight each other? That'd be awesome!
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#33 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 07:12 PM

It's a band of Jaghut Tyrant mad scientist necromancers who play with (human) souls in a game of war against any and all comers, especially the T'lan Imass. When we get to Assail is when we finally learn a whole lot more about the Jaghut war on death. Maybe. I dunno.
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#34 User is offline   The Seguleh 46th 

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 02:30 AM

View Postworrywort, on 10 December 2010 - 07:12 PM, said:

It's a band of Jaghut Tyrant mad scientist necromancers who play with (human) souls in a game of war against any and all comers, especially the T'lan Imass. When we get to Assail is when we finally learn a whole lot more about the Jaghut war on death. Maybe. I dunno.



Interesting theory, one i like anyway. I also wonder if their is still maybe some leftover worship of the old Jaghut Tyrants if this i true (assuming they even worshipped them in the first place, as IIRC, the Tyrants liked to be subtle, and make you think you were worshipping/deifying something else entirely. Possibly to fly well below any radar?). So.....who are our known Jaghut Tyrants from the series anyhow? Raest obviously. I wanna think Jhenna from NOK was one as well. Alot of us assume Hood was one (although i don't see it. I think he was more of a big picture guyy like Gothos, but on a power level somewhat close to the Tyrants...). Anyone else i'm leaving out (i'm sure there are at least 3 or 4 more that have been briefly named at some point, not sure?)

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 11 December 2010 - 02:33 AM

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#35 User is offline   MTS 

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 02:33 AM

From Hedge's comment and Badlands' comment about Stoop it's definite that there's something weird going on with the very nature of death in Assail. I'd bet dollars to donuts it has something to do with the Jaghut War on Death, but as we know almost nothing about that, any speculation as to what that means is useless. I actually think it might have something to do with those mages that Ereko and co. (heh) met on Jacurucku, who were researching the paths of Ascendancy, and admired the Guard for their advances in that area.

Anyway, I think the shades of the dead on Assail can do something to the Ritual, perhaps even break the Vow holding individual T'lan Imass, causing them to fall to dust and oblivion. It's one of the few things that makes sense, as it's hard to fathom a corporeal force annihilating two whole T'lan Imass armies.
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#36 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 04:44 AM

View PostThe Seguleh 46th, on 11 December 2010 - 02:30 AM, said:

View Postworrywort, on 10 December 2010 - 07:12 PM, said:

It's a band of Jaghut Tyrant mad scientist necromancers who play with (human) souls in a game of war against any and all comers, especially the T'lan Imass. When we get to Assail is when we finally learn a whole lot more about the Jaghut war on death. Maybe. I dunno.



Interesting theory, one i like anyway. I also wonder if their is still maybe some leftover worship of the old Jaghut Tyrants if this i true (assuming they even worshipped them in the first place, as IIRC, the Tyrants liked to be subtle, and make you think you were worshipping/deifying something else entirely. Possibly to fly well below any radar?). So.....who are our known Jaghut Tyrants from the series anyhow? Raest obviously. I wanna think Jhenna from NOK was one as well. Alot of us assume Hood was one (although i don't see it. I think he was more of a big picture guyy like Gothos, but on a power level somewhat close to the Tyrants...). Anyone else i'm leaving out (i'm sure there are at least 3 or 4 more that have been briefly named at some point, not sure?)


Jaghut Tyrants, huh?

Definite Tyrants:
Raest
the alliance of 4 Jaghut Tyrants that threatened the Logros on the eve of the Ritual of Tellann

Sort-of Tyrants:

Pannion

Possible:

Gethol
Jhenna
Ganath
Sarkanos
Invindonos

Aramala
Cynnigig

The blue jaghut from the Wrecker's Coast
Blue dude's wife

Not Tyrants:

Hood
Gothos

Phyrlis

Pannion's mom
Pannion's sister

Haut
Varandas
Gathras
Sanad
10 others

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#37 User is offline   MTS 

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 05:15 AM

Don't forget the Huntress.
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#38 User is offline   Bauchelain the Evil 

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 04:37 PM

And I think it's definitely stated that Jhenna is a Tyrant in NoK. But I could be wrong.
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#39 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 09:52 PM

View PostBauchelain the Evil, on 11 December 2010 - 04:37 PM, said:

And I think it's definitely stated that Jhenna is a Tyrant in NoK. But I could be wrong.


I don't think it is. She has a random comment about Jaghut helping humans in the past, that's all I can recall.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#40 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 09:58 PM

The fact that she is promising Temper to carve him out an entire continent as a kingdom, or something like that, and a number of other hints pegged her as a potential Tyrant at least (never mind the fact that Jaghut's are notorious liars)
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