[Epiph]

 Erayle, on 07 November 2010 - 08:14 AM, said:

1) Crokus - I can't be the only one...

I don't even know where to begin. To me, he was always 'that guy' who got dragged into things by other characters, but still ending up doing absolutely nothing aside from being there when the action takes place, and killing a few people. His storyline seems to consist solely of whining and brooding over things. Hell, I think the only time I was actually interested in his storyline was in GotM, when he smashed Vorcan with bricks, and in TtH when he kills Gorlas.

But, I mean, did you expect awesomeness from Crokus? I've always reserved a special hatred for him, so it's sort of hard to say I find him "disappointing".

[D'rek]

 worrywort, on 06 December 2010 - 01:39 AM, said:

Do you think The Pack, the god of the Jheck in MT, is another T'rolbarahl? They are described as surprisingly (to Iron Bars at least) un-canine, and also as fairly serpentine, and so it might kinda make sense that they're a pack of lizard-cats. Plus there's the connection to the First Empire, and being T'rolbarahl would explain why the Jheck would bother worshiping them anyway. And it's another FE entity finding itself back in the world and while powerful, still fearfully unsuited to modern times.

P.S. I think the five Tarthenal gods would make up my list of five disappointing characters. How convenient!

You're mistakenly assuming that Dejim Nebrahl is a regular T'rolbarahl, and that all T'rolbarahl must be just like him then, but this is false. Dejim is a special case - seven T'rolbarahl placed their souls in a women (a mhybe) to create him. I can't remember if it's confirmed or not, but I don't think T'rolbarahl were D'ivers or Soletaken to begin with, just solo lizard cats who got stronger drinking blood.

Regarding The Pack, it seems unlikely that another six T'rolbarahl would do the same thing and create a D'ivers T'rolbarahl. Plus the "lizard-cats" could easily be something else. So I'd say it's possible, but there are plenty of other logical explanations. Personally I think it more likely The Pack were created from the Beast Ritual affecting Lether.

[worry]

Well I'm not assuming anything, I'm asking a question. But your argument is pretty good that it's unlikely a second pack of T'rolbarahl would become another pseudo-D'ivers independently, though I don't think it's out of the question (if not by the same Mhybe method, but through worship of "The Pack"...it's not just a D'ivers after all, but an ascendant and god). It's pretty much confirmed that Dejim was not D'ivers before, but I wouldn't call them solo either...I personally believe they were, as a species, pack hunters before Dejim's D'ivers idea took shape, and that he just happened to take it a few steps further for survival's sake (which is why I wouldn't be surprised if the Jheck worshiped a separate pack of T'rolbarahl). So anyway, like I said, your counterargument is good, and it's just a thought that popped into my head, but I haven't quite given up on it yet.

[nacht]

 Gothos, on 05 November 2010 - 01:23 PM, said:

For me Dead-NotDead Hedge is severely disappointing because of his coming back from the dead. Hedge was great before he died, even as a ghost it was great, but now he's back alive and kicking? Come on.

You know why he came alive, don't you.
Detoran is dead too .. (and ascended)

[Blueiron]

 D, on 08 December 2010 - 03:52 AM, said:

 worrywort, on 06 December 2010 - 01:39 AM, said:

Do you think The Pack, the god of the Jheck in MT, is another T'rolbarahl? They are described as surprisingly (to Iron Bars at least) un-canine, and also as fairly serpentine, and so it might kinda make sense that they're a pack of lizard-cats. Plus there's the connection to the First Empire, and being T'rolbarahl would explain why the Jheck would bother worshiping them anyway. And it's another FE entity finding itself back in the world and while powerful, still fearfully unsuited to modern times.

P.S. I think the five Tarthenal gods would make up my list of five disappointing characters. How convenient!

You're mistakenly assuming that Dejim Nebrahl is a regular T'rolbarahl, and that all T'rolbarahl must be just like him then, but this is false. Dejim is a special case - seven T'rolbarahl placed their souls in a women (a mhybe) to create him. I can't remember if it's confirmed or not, but I don't think T'rolbarahl were D'ivers or Soletaken to begin with, just solo lizard cats who got stronger drinking blood.

Regarding The Pack, it seems unlikely that another six T'rolbarahl would do the same thing and create a D'ivers T'rolbarahl. Plus the "lizard-cats" could easily be something else. So I'd say it's possible, but there are plenty of other logical explanations. Personally I think it more likely The Pack were created from the Beast Ritual affecting Lether.

Wait! Did you say mhybe?! No friggin wonder he was a disappointment!

[nacht]

The death of Trull Sengar. To do and survive all that and die by the hands of fucking Syrrin Kanar. SE, you heartless bastard ...
How about that Jheck Soletaken God, all the way back from the Azath and die at the hands of Bars ..
Corlo, my friend, I thought you had more balls.
Nimander... please stop thinking so much.
Itkovian.. Stop volunteering for stuff you don't know anything about, you can't take it man..

One more. Kallor, behave like somebody who killed n.. million people, don't start getting doubts now.

[epicfantasynerd]

1. Mhybe. Understand her role - but her POV sections are the only ones I skim over on re-reads. Just so dry and boring.

2. Redmask. Would've like to understand more about his Letherii background and what possessed him to take on that legacy. Went out pretty weak considering he started off as a tactical genius.

3. Silchas Ruin. I expected someone that was basically equal to Rake but with a nasty attitude and instead he seems to get his ass routinely handed to him.

4. Edgewalker. There are hints that he is BADass, but what does he do. Nothing, except stalk Coty once in a while.

5. Raest. Was one of the baddest of the badasses ever. Now runs a azath hostel helping out whoever needs it.

[Luzburg]

 epicfantasynerd, on 08 February 2011 - 03:28 PM, said:

1. Mhybe. Understand her role - but her POV sections are the only ones I skim over on re-reads. Just so dry and boring.

2. Redmask. Would've like to understand more about his Letherii background and what possessed him to take on that legacy. Went out pretty weak considering he started off as a tactical genius.

3. Silchas Ruin. I expected someone that was basically equal to Rake but with a nasty attitude and instead he seems to get his ass routinely handed to him.

4. Edgewalker. There are hints that he is BADass, but what does he do. Nothing, except stalk Coty once in a while.

5. Raest. Was one of the baddest of the badasses ever. Now runs a azath hostel helping out whoever needs it.

Re: Ruin... AND he is now reduced to a crybaby sidekick :/


As for Raest... I think he became a better character after he entered Azath service. I think hes one of the funniest characters, behind Tehol/Bugg/Ublala.


My list....

1. Deragoth
More or less pointless

2. Hounds of Light
Pretty weak.

3. Errant
Remarkably petty god.

4. Kuru Qan
Loved him when he was alive. Really hated the way he turned out.

5. Trull
What kind of mortal sword/knight gets backstabbed by a weak kneed letherii coward?

[geniusloci]

I think Itkovian was developed perfectly. After all, he took part in one of the most dramatic events in all the books (nearly as dramatic as Coltaine and his CoD).

This post has been edited by geniusloci: 28 June 2011 - 10:55 AM

[tiam]

Turning him into a god kinda ruined his sacrifice for me and I found his sections of TTh a bit meh the first time round.

[geniusloci]

That I agree, although he was still too much himself as god. I thought that he will simply accept what he could and die, while he ascended, which in turn many felt wrong. Still, I cannot forget what he did, so this end was well deserved.

[Rhand]

I trade 4 dissapointments for dislikes:

- Hellian by far, God, Erikson fucked her up so bad it makes me cry every time I have to read a chapter about her. So unbelievably not funny.
- Udinaas. Find yourself another sex, I expel you hereby from the race of man. Whiny bitch.
- That old Andii whose name is not worth remembering.
- Ublala Pung and that Malazan squadmage who speaks in some wierd accent that Erikson decided to write down how you hear it.

1 dissapointment:

- Forkrul Assail: They were SO amazing in the tiny bits we saw from them in the first 8 books but then we get 4 of them in book 9 and they were a massive let down. But I suppose the 2 farm demons having no real problems with an FA should've prepared me for this.

[Sinisdar Toste]

 Rhand, on 29 June 2011 - 09:44 PM, said:

I trade 4 dissapointments for dislikes:

- Hellian by far, God, Erikson fucked her up so bad it makes me cry every time I have to read a chapter about her. So unbelievably not funny.
- Udinaas. Find yourself another sex, I expel you hereby from the race of man. Whiny bitch.
- That old Andii whose name is not worth remembering.
- Ublala Pung and that Malazan squadmage who speaks in some wierd accent that Erikson decided to write down how you hear it.

1 dissapointment:

- Forkrul Assail: They were SO amazing in the tiny bits we saw from them in the first 8 books but then we get 4 of them in book 9 and they were a massive let down. But I suppose the 2 farm demons having no real problems with an FA should've prepared me for this.

man, i know you and i probably disagree on many things, but to say that SE 'fucked up' hellian is just, well, fucked up. how is she 'fucked up'? you don't find her funny, is that it? ok, then say she's not funny. but in no way, shape, or form, did SE 'fuck her up'. hellian's story is probably one of the most complete and satisfactory of the entire series.

[worry]

Redeemer is supposed to be disappointing. All gods are disappointing, since gods are man-made. Fanatics create horrors of their gods, while the weak and desperate create one-dimensional wish-fulfillment vehicles. I say this not without sympathy, but it's mostly self-serving. But not all believers are fanatics or desperate, so some day perhaps The Redeemer will redeem himself. But it's not Itkovian who's hindering him.

[Rhand]

 Sinisdar Toste, on 30 June 2011 - 03:00 AM, said:

 Rhand, on 29 June 2011 - 09:44 PM, said:

I trade 4 dissapointments for dislikes:

- Hellian by far, God, Erikson fucked her up so bad it makes me cry every time I have to read a chapter about her. So unbelievably not funny.
- Udinaas. Find yourself another sex, I expel you hereby from the race of man. Whiny bitch.
- That old Andii whose name is not worth remembering.
- Ublala Pung and that Malazan squadmage who speaks in some wierd accent that Erikson decided to write down how you hear it.

1 dissapointment:

- Forkrul Assail: They were SO amazing in the tiny bits we saw from them in the first 8 books but then we get 4 of them in book 9 and they were a massive let down. But I suppose the 2 farm demons having no real problems with an FA should've prepared me for this.

man, i know you and i probably disagree on many things, but to say that SE 'fucked up' hellian is just, well, fucked up. how is she 'fucked up'? you don't find her funny, is that it? ok, then say she's not funny. but in no way, shape, or form, did SE 'fuck her up'. hellian's story is probably one of the most complete and satisfactory of the entire series.

He fucked her up because she had potential, but he decided to do what he did with her. But yes, my choice of words was perhaps a bit strong and that's because so many people seem to like her and I cannot fathom why.

This post has been edited by Rhand: 29 July 2011 - 03:25 PM

[MTS]

 Rhand, on 30 June 2011 - 07:20 AM, said:

 Sinisdar Toste, on 30 June 2011 - 03:00 AM, said:

 Rhand, on 29 June 2011 - 09:44 PM, said:

I trade 4 dissapointments for dislikes:

- Hellian by far, God, Erikson fucked her up so bad it makes me cry every time I have to read a chapter about her. So unbelievably not funny.
- Udinaas. Find yourself another sex, I expel you hereby from the race of man. Whiny bitch.
- That old Andii whose name is not worth remembering.
- Ublala Pung and that Malazan squadmage who speaks in some wierd accent that Erikson decided to write down how you hear it.

1 dissapointment:

- Forkrul Assail: They were SO amazing in the tiny bits we saw from them in the first 8 books but then we get 4 of them in book 9 and they were a massive let down. But I suppose the 2 farm demons having no real problems with an FA should've prepared me for this.

man, i know you and i probably disagree on many things, but to say that SE 'fucked up' hellian is just, well, fucked up. how is she 'fucked up'? you don't find her funny, is that it? ok, then say she's not funny. but in no way, shape, or form, did SE 'fuck her up'. hellian's story is probably one of the most complete and satisfactory of the entire series.

He fucked her up because she had potential, but he decided to do what he did with her. But yes, my choice of words was perhaps a bit strong and that's because so many people seem to like her and I cannot fathom why.

And you know me? How?

What exactly did he do with her that you didn't like?

As for the last, he knows that both you and him probably disagree on many things, not that he knows you personally.

[flat_lander]

1.Ganoes Paran

What the hell has he been up to. All we've gotten since the bonehunters is a couple of garbled sentences sent via azath to Picker. Really expected the bloody master of the deck to be playing a bigger role by now.

2. Tool

I really really loved Tool in MOI and was so surprised to see him again at the end of RG, but he was such a let down in DoD. Course SE never gives us what we want so shouldn't really blame Tool

3. Rhulad

I thought we finally had a kickass insane villian that would keep the heroes busy for a few books, instead he just sits around being manipulated by one dimensional characters that existed solely for us to despise (and cheer their deaths).


4. Tavore

She has spent 5 novels now being completely impenetrable, one speech doesn't fix that, give us something damnit!


5. Caladan Brood

I'm not so much dissapointed in him as I just wish we saw a lot more of him cuz what is there is pretty great.

[Sinisdar Toste]

 flat_lander, on 29 July 2011 - 12:31 AM, said:

1.Ganoes Paran

What the hell has he been up to. All we've gotten since the bonehunters is a couple of garbled sentences sent via azath to Picker. Really expected the bloody master of the deck to be playing a bigger role by now.

2. Tool

I really really loved Tool in MOI and was so surprised to see him again at the end of RG, but he was such a let down in DoD. Course SE never gives us what we want so shouldn't really blame Tool

3. Rhulad

I thought we finally had a kickass insane villian that would keep the heroes busy for a few books, instead he just sits around being manipulated by one dimensional characters that existed solely for us to despise (and cheer their deaths).


4. Tavore

She has spent 5 novels now being completely impenetrable, one speech doesn't fix that, give us something damnit!


5. Caladan Brood

I'm not so much dissapointed in him as I just wish we saw a lot more of him cuz what is there is pretty great.

i see you haven't read tCG.

[flat_lander]

Indeed, I finished DoD earlier today and am both excited and terrified about CG.

[Phaedrus]

 Kanubis, on 05 November 2010 - 12:06 PM, said:

 Tapper, on 05 November 2010 - 11:52 AM, said:

5) Reserved for a whole host of characters: dead Hedge,

Now we can never be friends

Its weird how conflicted I am with Hedge. On the one hand his death kind of lost a lot of its meaning when he came back... But on the other his new BridgeBurner's are some of my favorites. Sunrise... Sweetlard... Rumjugs. I just got to the part where Sunrise sacrifices himself to save Hedge and now Im really sad Stupid old man...

EDIT: NOOO EVERYONE IS DYING WHYYY GOD DAMN YOU ERIKSON.

This post has been edited by Phaedrus: 12 May 2012 - 07:01 PM