[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Oh yea, Prince K'azz...he's the new number 1 on my most disappointing characters list.

Seriously, he's supposed to be a great strategist. Maybe so, but they also talk about him like he's some powerful being, at the beginning of RotCG the CG takes the contract to take out the magus in the spire because they are searching for K'azz.

[Abyss]

Khellendros, on 05 November 2010 - 04:48 PM, said:

...- DEJIM NEBRAHL.

He took out Icarium and Mappo. That's not fail.

And if it's the Masani thing, bear in mind by that point he was starving and disoriented, likely because of the NO manipulations, and Masani is just THAT badass. Pun intended.

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 05 November 2010 - 06:28 PM, said:

Oh yea, Prince K'azz...he's the new number 1 on my most disappointing characters list.
...

I go back and forth on K'azz but i suspect ICE's point in RCG was that much as the Empire had evolved and the Vow had evolved, the Guard had evolved beyond K'azz to a certain extent. Sure he doesn't get up to much in the book but i can't put him in this category at this stage.

But i will remove BREDD from my list as add...

3. EREKO - Neat character. Lots of potential. Had one cool moment when he saved Traveller, two if you count his time on the Stormwall. But the death thing was just lame. You lived this long. You've got all this history. You may actually be immensely powerful. You have friends and a mission and oh hey Kallor how's it going stab me just here will you thanks pffffffftfffffff...

[Adjutant Stormy~]

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 05 November 2010 - 04:06 PM, said:

Bonus - Bauchelain & Korbal Broach - They seem to possess some chronic flaw. Understim...

I have to say, Bauch & Broach are two of my favorite characters. The novellas are awesome in their own way, but these two are simply a pair of frivolously creepy, nihilistic anti-comic relief. And they satisfy it well.

[worry]

I wonder how old they are. Is it possible they're from the First Empire and have been up to this stuff for that long?

[Tsundoku]

Abyss, on 05 November 2010 - 07:19 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 05 November 2010 - 04:48 PM, said:

...- DEJIM NEBRAHL.

He took out Icarium and Mappo. That's not fail.

Also don't forget he had 2 other things against him:

1. He was low on "juice" (or whatever) when he was released, besides chomping down on those Nameless Ones in red shirts, and never got a chance to fully "power up" because he was constantly getting smacked such that it was like 1 step forward, 3 steps backward. Then he just got scragged, basically.

2. He was set up to be an example of one of the strongest themes of the series - that of obsolescence. That which was once ultra-badass is now still relatively strong when compared with vanilla mortals, but an also-ran when compared with the true badasses. Hell, even the demi-badasses with a few neat tricks, eg Pust pulling out a can of shadow whoopass.

I think the theme of obsolescence works quite well when thinking of some of the other characters on this list, sometimes not so much because their power class of 9000 has since been eclipsed, but also sometimes they've been out of touch so long, they no longer have any real relevance to the world. Even their followers have outgrown them in a way.

That, or their reps were overblown.

[Dolmen 2.0]

REDMASK-Useless ending. Best example of the whole don't judge a book by its cover.
I enjoyed his entry into the series. I even respected his background story but
the mess at the end was actually quite pathetic.

Onos T'oolan-I had HIGH hopes for a flesh and blood tool. I hoped for a rematch
between him and senu, maybe even something with Mok. His self sacrifice was well
meaning but I really wanted to see him in action as a living Imass...ah and the hetan
aftermath was largely his fault...such a schlep.

Orfantallllll-...he was orfantal. thats all that needs to be said.

Andarist-an awesome character. somewhat tragic and I know I will like him more
and more in the kharkanas trilogy. Thats why I was pretty upset he just went off and died.
as Anomander rakes stand in I honestly expected more from him.

Greymanes Sword- He walks up to skinner, pulls out this mini sword. Youre at the edge of your
seat waiting for all your expectations of it turning into a world ending Claymore to come
true and then...nothing. the way greymane chalks it off to "being close to her temple"
was annoying. Greymane should have eaten Skinner. That was almost as irritating as the icarium
karsa match up.

[ShadowRaven]

Although he ranks quite high on the list for dissappointing characters, Prince K'azz will probably make a more memorable appearance in a later book so I'm still not ready to count him in the top 5 untill I see the whole story. His role in RotCG really feels like setting things up for a later book, similar to what Erikson uses a lot. Anyways, here is my top 5:

1. Hull Beddict
Well, his story just didn't click for me.

2. Ereko
I agree with Abyss on this one. There was so much hinted depth and history to him, and then up comes Kallor and goes stabby, end of story.

3. Skinner
Uber swordsman whose reputation was referred to a bunch of times finally appears and is made close to useless by a big hulking armor or invincibility? Needless to say I wasn't very impressed. Although I do get the feeling that that armor is going to come off and Skinner has probably changed quite a lot in the service of the Crippled God...

4. Felisin Younger
It was hinted that her Salvation faction would become very powerful, and I found her character interesting but we haven't heard from her since.

5. Ganoes Paran
He is on this list only because he is my favorite character by far and I want to read more of him but he hasn't appeared in a while. Hopefully tCG will fix that

[Icarium Kalam]

I don't have a list of 5 right now but i would put Hetan on the list.

[NickO]

Well I have a point to mention myself which I don't think has been empathized enough yet..

#1

WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO GANOES PARAN?!

Yeah sure, build him up all the way from this noble officer who gets noticed, make him super badass master of the deck style + ancient hound blood. Make him High Fist and give him the the best and most experienced army in the whole Malazan empire (+Drynja Veterans). Then dump him and act like he was never a main character.

He better suddenly appear in TCG or someone will pay.


Oh and I swear to god if ICE murders the epic, mythical Stormriders in the next novel, like he did with the other legends in RotCG (Skinner, Cowl, K'azz etc).

That is all.

This post has been edited by NickO: 06 November 2010 - 11:49 PM

[Seras]

1) Crokus - I can't be the only one...

I don't even know where to begin. To me, he was always 'that guy' who got dragged into things by other characters, but still ending up doing absolutely nothing aside from being there when the action takes place, and killing a few people. His storyline seems to consist solely of whining and brooding over things. Hell, I think the only time I was actually interested in his storyline was in GotM, when he smashed Vorcan with bricks, and in TtH when he kills Gorlas.

2) Tool - from badass to just...bad

Damn it, he knew what was coming to Hetan and his kids if he died. But he decides to die anyways to save the Barghast. Only to kill them later because it finally occurred to him dying was a mistake, and wiping out a few clans was what he should have done in the first place. Before that, he just let his rule of the White Faces fall apart. Keep in mind, this is the First Sword of the T'lan Imass we're talking about here! Whatever happened the badass that took on Raest and fought his way through a couple of K'ell to save Toc? At the very least, I expected him to go down fighting for his loved ones.

That's about it for me.

[Ulrik]

I must stand for Hull. He is epicly tragic figure...I felt with him deeply, because, well, he is anthropologist of his world. He studies cultures, understands them...and then is used to their enslaving. As partly anthropologist I understand his pain. I met at my former university (Middle-East and Islamic Studies) few people who went there to "know my enemy and serve to protect us from them"...few of this few left this idea...but some went to service of national agency under bureau of ministry of foreign affairs.

(most of them was very lame...but thats another story)

But I can clearly understand his pain for being used to brutal expansion. You have to share some feelings with "target of research" and yeah, you like them usually, bcause you understand them and their culture. And then you are the key that opens lock to their door...and slavery. Ouch.

And Hull is tragic in second way. He tries to undid thing by simple blind revenge, but is not needed anymore...great Hull Beddict, useless bitter man with childish desire...killed for his crimes. I liked that concept of character, looked...very deep for me. And irritating of course.

[Ulrik]

Erayle, on 07 November 2010 - 08:14 AM, said:

Damn it, he knew what was coming to Hetan and his kids if he died. But he decides to die anyways to save the Barghast. Only to kill them later because it finally occurred to him dying was a mistake, and wiping out a few clans was what he should have done in the first place. Before that, he just let his rule of the White Faces fall apart. Keep in mind, this is the First Sword of the T'lan Imass we're talking about here! Whatever happened the badass that took on Raest and fought his way through a couple of K'ell to save Toc? At the very least, I expected him to go down fighting for his loved ones.

That's about it for me.

Erm...but thats essencial for the reborn Tool...his whole tragic arc lies in this way. No killing anymore. If you say that he should wipe few clans, you totally misunderstood whole concept of reborn Tool. Damn, its almost raining from pages of DoD. He is tired from brutal and primitive violent ways of Barghast and majority of world. He lived thru millenias and killed thousands of beings. He (naively) believes in solving things other ways, even it would cost his live. He didnt ask for leading White Face, he is burdened by it. With his new attitude, he can only try to force his ideas to Barghast (which in final means killing score of them and denying his own belief) or die. Because he cant simply leave and live in peace with Hetan, because Humbrall had to drown. Thats his curse.


Yeah, if the character is Napoleon of Mallick Rell, he could slay few thousand people, to put White Face in line, but well...this is Tool...tired ex-First Sword of Imass, living again, loving father of family and desperate ruler who didnt want to rule.

[Ulrik]

And third Ulrik for luck (Im not exotic spammer bot, even my english and frequency of posts can suggest)...my top 5, not disaapointing, just...not fullfilled characters so far.

1 - Cowl
Come on! We read legends about him. He clashed with Anomander and Spinnock isnt sure who retreated first! He made Silanah crispy. And got pwned by half mad Topper and self-Azathized? I dont buy it, really.


2 - Seerdomin
Dont ask me why. His parts was great, but I feel like... I need one, small, final word. He is still pressured into my mind like desperately defending, but, I need one more step...dunno...he isnt complete for me, yet.


3 - Kilava
OK, I still hope for her one badass show in TCG...but without it, I would be really disappointed.


4 - Kulp
Hey, that guy was too cool to be just eaten in two sentences! I know its leitmotif of MBoF, but... I liked him, SE!


5 - Keneb
Now Im going against SE´s will, I know. Tragedy of Keneb is in his useless death... But...I still cant cope with fact, that he wont hold army after Adjunct is totally out of favor. And why the hell should he ride for Gudd, covered in ice, against score of Nahruk furies? He wanted to save Gudd for better place to sacrifice, yup, but...


(and yeah, this brings me to potential number six - if Gudd is dead, I´ll be really, really pissed off! That would be disappointed reader!)

[Ceda Cicero]

I don't have five right now, and don't want to wait to get five before I vent about this here. Plus most of mine would be redundant anyway, except for...

The Deragoth, on so many levels. They're the Hounds of Dark, meant to be even older than the already absurdly ancient Hounds of Shadow. But then they're also Dessimbelackis's D'ivers form. And then they're ALSO some primordial race of hound that was running around 7C (seen in Raraku's memory pocket warren thingy) apparently domesticating the Eres. That's just too much going on, I can't wrap my head around it, and the bits that I can seem to contradict one another. Considering how complex they are they just haven't gotten the kind of face-time they need.

Aside from the confusion around their existence and nature, their story arcs are also incredibly unsatisfying and make little sense. Karsa swats them like flies. I love Karsa and understand he's uber powerful but it was still just unsatisfying and anticlimactic. And Paran's whole plot to free them just to counter Dejim Nebrahl (who's also built up to be a massive badass but then pretty much just lames out after the incident with Icarium and Mappo) seems insanely convoluted and not well thought out. Of all the resources at his disposal as Master of the Deck I had a hard time understanding why he chose that course.

[Sinisdar Toste]

parans outrageous plan was just more overestimation of dejim in my opinion, but maybe it wasn't underestimation. if poliel hadn't been plaguing the place up he could have been devouring cities at a time and who knows if even the deragoth would have been enough

[champ]

The thing with Dejim was that the more he ate, the stronger he got, he needed to be stopped quick and stopped hard.

7C were lucky that he hadn't been around in a long time, constantly going to unoccupied spots otherwise it may of been a different matter...

[Ceda Cicero]

Sinisdar Toste, on 02 December 2010 - 06:00 PM, said:

parans outrageous plan was just more overestimation of dejim in my opinion, but maybe it wasn't underestimation. if poliel hadn't been plaguing the place up he could have been devouring cities at a time and who knows if even the deragoth would have been enough

True enough. I still think he could have easily used his Deck to call a meeting with some Ascendant and then find some way of convincing them it was in their best interest to stop Dejim. Or at least TRY that before you drag the Trygalle through a host of hostile and unknown warrens to unleash an uncontrollable force on a continent with no guarantee that they're going to do what he's hoping they'll do.

[Sinisdar Toste]

Ciceronian, on 02 December 2010 - 06:29 PM, said:

Sinisdar Toste, on 02 December 2010 - 06:00 PM, said:

parans outrageous plan was just more overestimation of dejim in my opinion, but maybe it wasn't underestimation. if poliel hadn't been plaguing the place up he could have been devouring cities at a time and who knows if even the deragoth would have been enough

True enough. I still think he could have easily used his Deck to call a meeting with some Ascendant and then find some way of convincing them it was in their best interest to stop Dejim. Or at least TRY that before you drag the Trygalle through a host of hostile and unknown warrens to unleash an uncontrollable force on a continent with no guarantee that they're going to do what he's hoping they'll do.

some ascendant might have been just as unpredictable. who'd want to step in front of the t'rolbarahl? most would be hard to bargain with, and he had little time to waste. i think the deragoth was his choice cuz he knew they'd done it before, thats all. he didn't know the magnitude of the threat. but it turned out to be pretty good leverage when he discovered he needed the hounds of shadow to go seven cities if the deragoth were gonna go, cuz they wanted their shadows back. quite understandably. so the deal was cut, with Shadowthrone raging, and the whole things just happened to come off without a hitch.

[Ceda Cicero]

Sinisdar Toste, on 02 December 2010 - 08:39 PM, said:

Ciceronian, on 02 December 2010 - 06:29 PM, said:

Sinisdar Toste, on 02 December 2010 - 06:00 PM, said:

parans outrageous plan was just more overestimation of dejim in my opinion, but maybe it wasn't underestimation. if poliel hadn't been plaguing the place up he could have been devouring cities at a time and who knows if even the deragoth would have been enough

True enough. I still think he could have easily used his Deck to call a meeting with some Ascendant and then find some way of convincing them it was in their best interest to stop Dejim. Or at least TRY that before you drag the Trygalle through a host of hostile and unknown warrens to unleash an uncontrollable force on a continent with no guarantee that they're going to do what he's hoping they'll do.

some ascendant might have been just as unpredictable. who'd want to step in front of the t'rolbarahl? most would be hard to bargain with, and he had little time to waste. i think the deragoth was his choice cuz he knew they'd done it before, thats all. he didn't know the magnitude of the threat. but it turned out to be pretty good leverage when he discovered he needed the hounds of shadow to go seven cities if the deragoth were gonna go, cuz they wanted their shadows back. quite understandably. so the deal was cut, with Shadowthrone raging, and the whole things just happened to come off without a hitch.

I suppose it is decently well thought out, between Paran's connection to the HoS, his actions to free two of them in Dragnipur directly connecting him to the Deragoth and the Deragoth's previous, victorious clash with Dejim.

I still don't like the Deragoth though. Too many new layers piled on with too little explanation of original layers and not nearly enough face time.

[worry]

Do you think The Pack, the god of the Jheck in MT, is another T'rolbarahl? They are described as surprisingly (to Iron Bars at least) un-canine, and also as fairly serpentine, and so it might kinda make sense that they're a pack of lizard-cats. Plus there's the connection to the First Empire, and being T'rolbarahl would explain why the Jheck would bother worshiping them anyway. And it's another FE entity finding itself back in the world and while powerful, still fearfully unsuited to modern times.

P.S. I think the five Tarthenal gods would make up my list of five disappointing characters. How convenient!

This post has been edited by worrywort: 06 December 2010 - 01:41 AM