[Path-Shaper]

Tapper takes a page from my playbook and he has no idea how brilliant it is...

Tulas Shorn, on 25 October 2010 - 06:06 PM, said:

So, let's see how this plays out.
I'll probably get deadified for it as revealing is bad, but it also shows I am a lowby, cause what kind of mistborn would reveal?

Here's the relevant post from the main thread.

Tulas Shorn, on 25 October 2010 - 05:59 PM, said:

I had hoped for more from this case, Galain.

But if it helps anyone: I burned some bronze on Galain yesterday.
The lack of him burning anything by himself was interesting.

Now I BELIEVE Tapper has a typo here because he burned bronze against GAMELON not GALAIN. But in this typo, he's actually got BOTH enemy Mistborn pegged! This is a solid play because he's running out of Bronze and his team is down a player. He does open himself to both Ruse and Liosan, but he's got both enemy Mistborn pegged right now.

I think he'll probably realize what he did and say he meant Gamelon not Galain but the damage could be done.

EDIT: Yep he retconned into Gamelon... scratch that.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 25 October 2010 - 06:11 PM

[Path-Shaper]

Tulas Shorn, on 25 October 2010 - 06:10 PM, said:

yeah, but you are modding, and dibsie (Ruse) is playing a cautious RI game, he's not going to selfsplode either, so I musts have the suicide award!

Path-Shaper, on 25 October 2010 - 06:14 PM, said:

I'm actually quite surprised that you have not imploded in typical Tapper fashion yet. Still, I give you props for making a move. It's always easy to, in "hindsight" sit around and wonder what could have been, but I think it's better to lose on your own terms than sit back and hope you win by dumb luck (see last game for an example).

Tulas Shorn, on 25 October 2010 - 06:39 PM, said:

I only implode when given a huge power role, or when I enter a pissing match with dkt. Which is about 75% of the faction games, actually

One thing Tapper is doing brilliantly here is symping Galain... Thyrllan already knows Tulas, so he's not in any danger of drawing Steel. Galain has not used ANY Tin, huge mistake, and can only guess his team based upon things said on thread right now, so he will probably ignore Tulas. Ruse may suspect Tulas is on the team, and will probably hold his kill. Shadow will KNOW he's an enemy because he's also a Seeker, but he can't really reveal that for no reason.

So the only real danger to Tapper right now is from Liosan (and to be honest, Tapper is almost a perfect recruit candidate now because he's 'outed' as likely non-Mistborn and thus, harder to lynch) and Gamelon (who may be headed for a Day 3 exit with two factions going for him).

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 25 October 2010 - 06:57 PM

[Path-Shaper]

Ah, now we're really picking up steam... Galain adds to the Gamelon case by offering his own reveal... that he's a Tineye! That puts two types of 'find' metals on Gamelon that have both returned nothing, which makes him immediately a threat. However, this does put a big target on his back from Korbas and Korvalain, the enemy Tineyes (House V's Tineye is dead).

And then Thyrllan, in a clear effort to oust Liosan before he can recruit (he doesn't know Liosan can't recruit tonight), offers his OWN reveal as a Pewterarm (so Sukul will know he's an enemy now)! This could endear him to the House D faction (symping Gamelon, perhaps), and to a lesser extent, the House V faction-sans-Sukul (because he isn't going after Galain and looks like he's trying to steer to a clear target).

I have to admit, I really admire Kurt here for trying to sell out to take out the Inquisition. He could buy himself some friends with that move. But I question his information. Maybe he's a bit short on time, but you have to provide something good to take out Silencer... the "playing smooth" argument is, in my opinion, one of the absolute worst arguments in Mafia. It is meaningless. Nobody wants to be lynched, everyone wants to "play smooth."

This day is far from over, and I suspect Kurt may offer more information if he feels Liosan can slip away again.

[Path-Shaper]

Tulas Shorn, on 25 October 2010 - 07:29 PM, said:

Hehehe. I don't know if I have any biggest enemies. Yellow, possibly, because he is confrontational and loves the gut, where I prefer the miscalculations of my own brain.

Owww. I hate the case I just made, cause with my luck, I just know Gamelon will say: Thyrllan.

I think you guys potentially overpowered copper, as an aside. Unlimited pieces and shielding those who target you? Wow.

The Dude's just wasting his actions but he doesn't know it. In a way, we've created a game in which a lot of the players can't do much. The Mistborn and Inquisition are immune to half of the abilities in the game.

Sukul Ankhadu, on 25 October 2010 - 07:29 PM, said:

Guard(metal burn) Gamelon unless he is lynched. If he is lynched, Then Guard Liosan.

Grief takes an interesting action (finally doing something). He may be worried about his own master's demise and is trying to find possible allies. Luckily, he's got one.

Omtose, on 25 October 2010 - 07:36 PM, said:

Provisional to burn a piece of bronze, targetting korabas.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 25 October 2010 - 07:37 PM

[Path-Shaper]

Looks like I have missed a bit of a revealfest. Let's hope this is the point where things start to fall into place. It's still anyone's game, I think whether lio survives long enough to get a recruit will be the difference between a win for the SI and a win for the factions. It sounds like the trains are likely going to get some even splits, Lio messing with the voting mechanics could be the deciding factor, but with no vote manipulation up to this point, it could also give him away.

Glad things are shaping up, PB I am going to leave you in the driving seat for now. I should be back in time to resolve everything tomorrow morning, unless there is a lynch in the next four hours or so.

[Path-Shaper]

Grief may be too late in this game to save his master. I'm not sure what he's doing with the no action, though...

Omtose, on 25 October 2010 - 07:39 PM, said:

Also, damn I don't want to lose our mistborn.

If it comes to it, I'm gonna claim I guarded game that night. Even if someone claims to have bronzed me, I can just use that to suggest games burning copper, which would explain TS' fail.

Can I provisional as:

If I fake claim guard, no action.
If I don't claim, go with targetting korabas?

Path-Shaper, on 25 October 2010 - 07:51 PM, said:

Sorry, I can only take results for provisionals, not things like 'fake reveals' and stuff.

Omtose, on 25 October 2010 - 07:54 PM, said:

Fair enough.

Provisionally no action.

Tapper hasn't caught on why Thyr is so adamant about Liosan's lynch.

Tulas Shorn, on 25 October 2010 - 07:44 PM, said:

Hehehehe, tell me about it.

Anyway, I hope Thyr will stop pushing and just accept this for some distancing. If Game is my faction, I'll try and spin him into the Mistborn

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 25 October 2010 - 08:06 PM

[Path-Shaper]

Tapper apparently slipped big time... will anyone catch it?

Tulas Shorn, on 25 October 2010 - 08:15 PM, said:

For those reading between the lines: yes, I just gave away Thyrllan without really realizing how obvious I made it.

Boohoo
He can burn iron.

Tulas Shorn said:

By mentioning the fake scenario: revealing as a Mistborn that I targeted xyz with non-lethal finding power abc, and getting no result - being 100% sure it was the Inq because I burned atium.

I think it was that what Thyr did.

Regardless:

Fact: Thyr dug himself a hole by his reveal.
People will bronze him and if he coppers, they'll suspect a lie - they'll know he lied if he does not copper.

The only debatable bit is how much I helped him into that pit... he should never have revealed.

Tulas Shorn, on 25 October 2010 - 08:27 PM, said:

Dammit, 4 anons, no-one posting. Should I switch? Should I?
Should I not? Dammit.

Silencer shows back up... and clarifies the spike he wants, but probably hasn't checked to see that he's a possible lynch.

Liosan, on 25 October 2010 - 08:36 PM, said:

Oh yeah...uhm...bronze please.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 25 October 2010 - 09:06 PM

[Path-Shaper]

Silencer's caught up, heh. He needs to Brass Thyrllan, as discussed, but I also think he needs to Zinc himself again. Two votes is pretty strong. His last one is really a toss up... Copper to hide his abilities, perhaps, or gamble and go for a kill because, well, he needs the spike badly.

Liosan, on 25 October 2010 - 08:56 PM, said:

Argh. The irony is that I can't go ahead and say that my kill DID go through.

Fucking reveals. Still, if I can live through this I'm getting lynched tomorrow, unless Game conveniently comes up as the Inquisitor!

I would like to use

Brass and Pewter on Thryllan tonight instead of Brass on Ruse and Bronze on Korabas, please.

UNLESS guards don't work on me (as in, my Brass will go through whether Thryllan is guarding me or not)

ELSE

Just use the Brass on Thyrllan instead of on Ruse.

If that makes sense...

Liosan, on 25 October 2010 - 09:03 PM, said:

Yeah yeah...

Playing it safe though, so that's what I want my actions to be.

Thanks. ^^

Path-Shaper, on 25 October 2010 - 09:03 PM, said:

Just to confirm, that's regular Bronze and not Steel w/ a Bronze spike, correct?

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 25 October 2010 - 09:05 PM

[Path-Shaper]

Looking impossible for Gamelon to overcome at this point... they smell blood. Liosan gets a 1-Day reprieve. Not sure how effective it will be, to be honest, since he's not advancing his faction any tonight.

[Path-Shaper]

Tapper's going to check out Liosan again, to no effect (due to Lio always burning copper)

Tulas Shorn, on 25 October 2010 - 09:05 PM, said:

Bronze Liosan.

If he is lynched, bronze Gamelon again.

Major props to Gothos... he's used all 3 pieces of Tin on both enemy Mistborn and the SI... I see no reason he shouldn't reveal that when his action fails for the third time.

Korabas, on 25 October 2010 - 09:10 PM, said:

Allright, going to sleep so some provisionals/conditionals for the night:

Find Liosan;

if, however, he is lynched (like I'm gonna sway anyone, lol):

Find Galain again.

[Path-Shaper]

Silencers clarifies...

Liosan, on 25 October 2010 - 09:08 PM, said:

Erm. Wait a sec, let me lay it out:

Steel (Bronze Spike) on Telas.
Pewter on Thryllan.
Brass on Thryllan.

Yes? My "instead of" was a disjunction for the entirety of the second half of the sentence, not just instead of on Ruse.

He also is a little tired of the "Smooth" argument... seriously, who on earth came up with this bogus claim that "smooth" is bad?

Liosan, on 25 October 2010 - 09:10 PM, said:

Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Liosan, on 25 October 2010 - 09:11 PM, said:

I am actually going to quit mafia (and maybe nuke the forum just for shits and giggles) if I get lynched for playing TOO. FUCKING. SMOOTH.

Path-Shaper, on 25 October 2010 - 09:16 PM, said:

I have a nice commentary about this whole "playing smooth" bit in Spoilers. I think you'll enjoy it.

[Path-Shaper]

House V going to really strangle 1st place with this lynch, especially if they get Silencer tomorrow. House D going to lose their mistborn and spent-vig, down to 2. House E staying at 3, and House V still at 4, only the Kandra dead.

[Path-Shaper]

Kurt offers some thoughts, but doesn't realize how useless the Pewter really is in this game.

Thyrllan, on 25 October 2010 - 09:28 PM, said:

Hmmm, I'm beginning to see why Tulas is sticking with a Gamelon lynch today. I can Guard Liosan (and others likely will as well), and keep him from getting kills, but I don't know if Guarding Gamelon would be useful.

So, better to off the guy we know isn't on our team, and control the guy we know I can lock down, then the other way around. I'm keeping my vote where it is, so as to look consistent (especially since I'm right, dammit), but if Gamelon gets lynched, it's just as good as Liosan and probably better, especially if Gamelon is Mistborn (which I really, really doubt, my suspicions run more towards Korv & Galain for the other two).

[Path-Shaper]

Stalker has used this information to his advantage. He is wrong on Korabas, but it's not a lethal mistake at this point. He is definitely wrong about Omtose, but it's really a math problem. He should know there's only one unknown House E (He knows himself and Thyr and there can only be one more left). Surely if there's two lynches and one gets votes which causes a set of response votes, it probably indicates a leader is involved and symps may be trying to save the day.

Korvalain, on 25 October 2010 - 09:31 PM, said:

Well, all this info today has been helpful. I'm sure some reveals have been fake, but I'm ok with that. I still know more than I did.

-Galain, as a tineye, is not on my faction. I'm guessing 1 per house, so there. I believe his reveal so we are enemies.
-Korabas- has revealed tin, but supports the liosan lynch. I think this is a fake reveal and he knows that Thyr is his mistborn and is supporting him any possible way. Maybe on my team, if he is lying. If he is not lying, also an enemy.
-Omtose, probably on my faction, due instant support towards Liosan after Thyr's vote. not sure on role.

Too many people who I know nothing about, thanks to them not posting. But the above is some good stuff for me. I don't know how true this is, but this kind of speculation is better than telling people about my finds, and having them realize that I am their enemy too.

[Path-Shaper]

Silencer's a bit agitated, hence a wall-o-text.

Liosan, on 25 October 2010 - 09:32 PM, said:

Pre-post edit: Thanks Tulas, FOR POINTING OUT THE OBVIOUS.

Good, 'cuz when I eventually get lynched, I'm going to need some enjoyment.

The silly thing is, this isn't even 'smooth' as far as I'm concerned. Maybe compared to the disaster that was the Mockra lynch, or the poor defence by Emurlahn of his case...but I'm actually hardly posting anything useful since day one, and essentially saying that I'm playing 'smooth' is saying that I'm the guy with the most posts who everyone THINKS is scum but can't find shit on to aid that.

Part of it is the fact that our case quality has gone down the drainpipe. I hate to join the ranks of the "Old Guard", bemoaning the lost Golden Age of Mafia, but I honestly think that either everyone is getting too good, or we have all lost the ability to make cases. OR:

These days, it seems to me that the quality of the case is almost irrelevant, as is the level of defence. Once a case is started, you will get lynched, it's just a matter of time. There isn't any satisfactory defence, there isn't any truly outstanding case you can bring. There is only lynch-today and lynch-later. At best you can deflect, find new cases, and hopefully last as long as possible, but if there's nothing else available, you're screwed. So far, we've seen cases in this one game which are predicated on: noobishness, misreading the rules and poor self-defence, "smooth play", naming a character from a book that is relevant to the discussion, being not-at-logger-heads with another player, and really, I don't even know what the case is against Gamelon, other than that someone revealed on him.

Does this sound like mafia? To me it sounds like a foregone conclusion waiting to fucking happening. Where are the pages-long quote-cases? The arguments of epic proportions? Where are the Weasels, the Asplosions (Vengy got close, but that was emocide), the drunken rants, the INVOLVEMENT.

It seems to me like no-one actually has the time to play, or the will to play, and those of us that do just end up getting frustrated - because to fit in these days you have to go along with this shit (or do you????) or else you just become the next target. I can honestly appreciate why Vengeance emocided this game, he was getting railroaded on a bullshit case on day one...and yet, we never used to struggle to get a day one lynch! It's like...half of it, we don't accept the same bullshit we used to, but the other half - it now makes up the entirety of the game!

I dunno, I'm rambling. But still, it just feels ODD. This whole setup these days...ugh.

(Not criticising the game, by the way...you guys seem to have done a great job from down here...though the scum hunt in a faction game is a bit annoying...especially AS that scum, lol. It's nothing wrong with the setup of the game, anyway...)

Path-Shaper, on 25 October 2010 - 09:38 PM, said:

Hey buddy, I wasn't around in the "Golden Age" but you've seen me play... and no lynch goes without my careful scrutiny and discussion, and you can bet I'll reveal if necessary, true or fake.

But you're mostly right, once someone becomes suspicious it's like they are always suspicious for no particular reason. I had a pretty good idea for a game a while back that would require players to really analyze posts rather than just play off of existing ideas, but it never really got any steam in my head.

Not sure if there's an answer or not. Maybe Mafiascum? That's a big community, so maybe a few tips could be learned. It could just be stale here.

[Path-Shaper]

Tapper's sounding an early curtain call, but he's in no danger... nobody even cares about him right now, to be honest. It's ALL on the power players...

Tulas Shorn, on 25 October 2010 - 09:40 PM, said:

I just hope we get a lynch, and I hope everyone put in provisionals.

However, either Lio or Game has to go down, and I bet at least 1 kill will go the way of the early proponents of a Game lynch.
That means Galain or me.

Oh well, I outed a Mistborn, which is what I wanted to do, so I did my job.

Path-Shaper, on 25 October 2010 - 09:41 PM, said:

C'mon, this is Malazan Mafia. When on earth did everyone have their provisionals in on time? 0 Hour Nights, man, I tell ya, that's the only way to do it.

You spoiled me rotten with Mexican Standoff... I started with that one and it had 0-hour nights, making anything else just a total drag.

[Path-Shaper]

With Lio having two votes today, it should be quite exciting when the next vote on Gamelon tips the scales by surprise.

Also, a bit of a misplay right now from Gwynn, Shin, and Gothos. If they were around, they could easily push the numbers to 6-on-6 (although it would only appear to be 5 due to the hidden vote). Shadow/Ment would then have a deciding vote, although he wouldn't know it.

The only person actually defending Gamelon on his team is Omtose/Grief.

edit: Scratch that, two of his team is defending him.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 25 October 2010 - 10:11 PM

[Path-Shaper]

Stalker is a pretty bright guy... he doesn't want to out Thyr any more than Thyr has already done. In a sense, Kurt's team is doing him a lot of favors.

Korvalain, on 25 October 2010 - 09:49 PM, said:

maybe hehe. The question is do I trust myself on those reads enough that I start looking around at other people who I know less about or verify one of my maybes? I'm not quite sure yet. I'll give you an action before night.

Also I do think Liosan may be the inquisitor. Thyr has to know something to make this a topic for him multiple times. Plus I had already been interested due to my night 1 find. I want to pull off the lynch, but swing it subtlety, so that people don't think what I think. That everyone on that train is following a mistborn vote haha.

regarding tin, can it only be blocked by a guard? Based on the OP I would have said yes, since I didn't expect copper to change anything about my finds. I didn't really need to ask day 2, but now I really want to know, especially with all the speculation I have been throwing out there today. I'm guessing no, but....

I'm not sure where Kurt gets the Telas vibe from.

Thyrllan, on 25 October 2010 - 10:05 PM, said:

I'm working on it.

Also, my primary suspect for my other team-mate is Telas, leaving Telas, Thyrllan, and Tulas Shorn as our remaining House.

But that's impossible, because no mod would ever be stupid enough to assign teams alphabetically! Hah! Ha ha! Oh, what utter foolishness that would be!

Path-Shaper, on 25 October 2010 - 10:13 PM, said:

This one time, in a game a while back, the names were listed out-of-order and I saw my name next to my master's name and I flipped out on the mod saying that he had listed all of the teams together on accident. It ended up being a mistake and a co-incidence.

#imjustsaying

[Path-Shaper]

Hard for Grief to play this one, to be honest. Faction too MIA to handle the reveals.

Omtose, on 25 October 2010 - 11:29 PM, said:

Damnit.

Considering hammering, disassociate myself a bit. However, my roles not very powerful, so I'm not sure it'd matter. Crap.

[Path-Shaper]

Korvalain, on 26 October 2010 - 12:39 AM, said:

provisional on Ruse.

Noted.

Liosan, on 26 October 2010 - 03:07 AM, said:

Updated Night Actions


Pewter on Thryllan.
Steel (Bronze Spike) on Thyrllan.
Brass on Telas.

Going for the long shot of WIFOM refuge. :S

Noted.

Thyrllan, on 26 October 2010 - 03:33 AM, said:

OK, that smarmy little comment by Liosan about how, hey, he's probably going to be lynched when someone else has more votes, and "maybe it would be for the best" type woe-is-me bullshit should get his assed straightaway lynched.

If no one else realizes how fucking scummy that is, coming from someone who doesn't have the big train on them, then everyone playing needs to turn in there damned cards. Especially when he follows it with that "it's slow time" bullshit, which completely contradicts the concept that a bunch of people are going to come on and vote or switch-votes.

That post alone would've gotten him lynched in many previous games, if he wasn't actually in the lead train. But I'm not sure that people are going to spot what bullshit it is in this game.

Immortalized til the next great cleansing.

Gamelon, on 26 October 2010 - 01:32 AM, said:

Looks like I'm done for. Really wish I could have gotten on earlier to respond to Galain. As it is, I think it's pretty clear who is on my team and that I am a Mistborn from the support I received before getting on myself.

Just in case I make it to night: Burn Iron and copper. Chances are I will be guarded, so there is little point in wasting anything else.

In case this hasn't been confirmed yet...

Noted.