[rubishod]

Hey all, long time (six month?) lurker, first time poster. Spoiler spoiler, spoiler spoiler spoiler. I got questions about stuff that's gone down, and will go down as the series continues.

I crushed through all the books the first time I read through them, and am presently on a second time through re-read. Slowed down, made connections and such (instead of just reading faster to find stuff out).

I'm about halfway through HoC, and the thing that keeps tickling my brain is why are there Tiste Andii guarding the Throne of Shadow? Darist even says something along the lines of "if my brother wants it protected he can do it himself", something that implies he's been there a while at someone's request or need to defend the Throne, but why would the Andii care about the old Edur throne?

Cotillion sent Cutter and Apsalar, which makes, since he has direct stake in what happens to the Throne of Shadow and would want it protected.

But the Andii? What the crap do they care? The only thing I can think of is because it ISN'T in the hands of the Edur, and they don't like the Edur, so why not just mess with them? But I feel that logic train sucks. Especially so since Darist has been there for so long, and Shadow has only recently been claimed by Shadowthrone (which, now as I type it out, is a very unoriginal name to take when you claim the Throne of Shadow), so Darist has been hanging out with other Andii on the Drift, which I understand to be one of their original homesteads, protecting something that isn't there's to protect, from a time even when it belonged to someone else?

I know I'm missing something, can someone point me in the right direction? Or even a book/chapter with a reference as to why, so I can look it up and re-read?

Rube

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

rubishod, on 27 September 2010 - 10:15 PM, said:

Hey all, long time (six month?) lurker, first time poster. Spoiler spoiler, spoiler spoiler spoiler. I got questions about stuff that's gone down, and will go down as the series continues.

I crushed through all the books the first time I read through them, and am presently on a second time through re-read. Slowed down, made connections and such (instead of just reading faster to find stuff out).

I'm about halfway through HoC, and the thing that keeps tickling my brain is why are there Tiste Andii guarding the Throne of Shadow? Darist even says something along the lines of "if my brother wants it protected he can do it himself", something that implies he's been there a while at someone's request or need to defend the Throne, but why would the Andii care about the old Edur throne?

Cotillion sent Cutter and Apsalar, which makes, since he has direct stake in what happens to the Throne of Shadow and would want it protected.

But the Andii? What the crap do they care? The only thing I can think of is because it ISN'T in the hands of the Edur, and they don't like the Edur, so why not just mess with them? But I feel that logic train sucks. Especially so since Darist has been there for so long, and Shadow has only recently been claimed by Shadowthrone (which, now as I type it out, is a very unoriginal name to take when you claim the Throne of Shadow), so Darist has been hanging out with other Andii on the Drift, which I understand to be one of their original homesteads, protecting something that isn't there's to protect, from a time even when it belonged to someone else?

I know I'm missing something, can someone point me in the right direction? Or even a book/chapter with a reference as to why, so I can look it up and re-read?

Rube

There is some more information in a later book, (RG) that gives reasons as to why Rake would want the throne protected.

Spoiler

Rake formed an alliance with Kilmandaros to cleanse Kurald Emurlahn from all those vying to take control of it and agreed to leave the Throne of Shadow unoccupied. It appears after all the millennia that he has not changed his mind.

Also, I'm not sure that Drift Avalii is one of t he Andii's original homesteads, especially when you consider the power there that Andarist was worried about waking up. I would guess that it isn't, and the name just seems Andiian since they took up residence their protecting the throne.

[rubishod]

It just seems to me that 'leaving it unoccupied' and 'defending it against others RE-occupying it' seem to be two very different things? Off to skim through RG...

Also, enjoying the weather in 'Cuse? This rain blows.

Rube

EDIT - I also totally forgot that there is a big difference between Elder Shadow and what human's call Shadow. That would be why the Hounds didn't slap around the Edur. They are from the old skool Shadow variety, while the Hounds work for the newage hippie ST.

This post has been edited by rubishod: 27 September 2010 - 10:55 PM

[Sinisdar Toste]

well rake wasn't gonna just leave it where it was for anybody to happen upon, he wanted to make sure that it was in a secure area where he could set guardians. predictable that the cause should cool among those guardians after some millenia, as you can see from andarist's attitude. either way thats why there's andii on drift avalii.

[Tattersail_]

rubishod, on 27 September 2010 - 10:15 PM, said:

Shadow has only recently been claimed by Shadowthrone (which, now as I type it out, is a very unoriginal name to take when you claim the Throne of Shadow),

Rube

Hi and welcome to the forum. The rulers of shadow are Ammanas and Cotillion. Shadowthrone is another name he goes by but Ammanas is his God name and Kellanved before that.

In terms of the Andii protecting the Throne. They where betrayed by the Edur, they would not want the Edur to take the Throne and become Powerful again. Especially, this is going to be a spoiler from later books as it has been a while since I re read,

Spoiler

the Edur are being influenced by tCG and Anomander Rake is against chaos. He would not want chaos ie Rhulad and his sword access through to the Throne of shadow

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

rubishod, on 27 September 2010 - 10:35 PM, said:

It just seems to me that 'leaving it unoccupied' and 'defending it against others RE-occupying it' seem to be two very different things? Off to skim through RG...

Also, enjoying the weather in 'Cuse? This rain blows.

Rube

EDIT - I also totally forgot that there is a big difference between Elder Shadow and what human's call Shadow. That would be why the Hounds didn't slap around the Edur. They are from the old skool Shadow variety, while the Hounds work for the newage hippie ST.

Well it depends on if you view 'leaving it unoccupied' as they just didn't want to sit in it, or they didn't want ANYONE to sit in it. I think its the latter, and that seems to be the exact same thing as defending it against others.


Also, I graduated so I'm not in cuse anymore, however without having been up there or talked to anyone I could have told you it probably rained about 25 days in September. Enjoy it, its gonna start snowing at the end of October, and that snow isn't gonna leave til the end of April

[Bauchelain the Evil]

rubishod, on 27 September 2010 - 10:35 PM, said:

I

EDIT - I also totally forgot that there is a big difference between Elder Shadow and what human's call Shadow. That would be why the Hounds didn't slap around the Edur. They are from the old skool Shadow variety, while the Hounds work for the newage hippie ST.

Actually the HoS are older than ST and Cots and seem to have been in shadow from the beginning. They didn't attack the Edur simply because the Edur were their original masters and remember how to control them.

[Lusipher]

On a (slightly) related note...I just read this part (first-timer here) and it occurred to me that the Malazan and Edur forces that fought out at sea sound like they could be part of the fleet that Karsa and Torvald encounter in the flooded warren that also contains the Silandah. Anyone else think this might be correct?

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Lusipher, on 04 October 2010 - 05:50 PM, said:

Spoiler

On a (slightly) related note...I just read this part (first-timer here) and it occurred to me that the Malazan and Edur forces that fought out at sea sound like they could be part of the fleet that Karsa and Torvald encounter in the flooded warren that also contains the Silandah. Anyone else think this might be correct?

Its not a huge one, but I'm pretty sure that stuff you mentioned is from a later book than HoC, so you should spoiler it.


But yea you are right I think.

[Abyss]

The Malazans that Cutter and Apsalar meet on Avalii confirm they fought the Edur which ties together with the fleet Karsa and Torvald encounter in the Nascent, tho i can't quite remember if they spotted Malazan ships there.

[Lusipher]

Whiskeyjack, I gleaned my information from HoC, this is the first time I've read this series
Abyss, Darist tells Cutter about the battle between the Edur and the Malazans, saying that five Edur ships survived a storm (no mention of how many there were to begin with). Along comes 3 Malazan war dromons that each take one ship down with them, leaving two Edur ships that make landfall, but Darist believes there are no Malazan survivors. A short while later, Darist and Cutter fend off some Edur with the help of Apsalar's timely arrival at the end, who then sends Cutter off to find the Malazans that she was able to sense.

[champ]

there is also a hint in the next book Midnight Tides where the other ships come from but thats obv RAFO