[Kessobahn]

that looked a little setup there gents. have the innos lost then?

[Hood's Path]

For someone presently in bed, you're very talkative, Kessobahn...

[Path-Shaper]

It is 2011.

The internet is dead.


In 2010, arguably the height of the power of the internet, it can be said that no programmer, no silicon valley icon, no message board moderator, no personal website owner fully understood how intimately the creative and innovative forces of the millions of internet users depended upon the function of memes and their ilk. They were the magic elves of the system. And now the magic elves are dead.

Without them, the internet turned into a zone of dry information, ruled by a new internet tandem. They were the perfect combination of irritation and cruelty. And they drove the good people away. They drove the people to other forms of stimulation, like Glenn Beck, Twilight and Terry Goodkind. And the internet was better forgotten - left to its new ruling class of pedantry and predatory links.

The next generations will grow up without ever having the internet in their homes, and they should know the names of those two. There are some whisper dark thoughts about the chance those two could escape the confines of the inter....nets.

It is up to you to warn future generations.

If you ever run into someone claiming that they are Pedantic Bear (D'riss), or Rick Roll (Hood's Path), be afraid. Be very afraid. Not even the LoLcats could withstand them.

The Scum have won.

SH Password is: collimation

[Kessobahn]

i am in bed, but the missus is out for her dads birthday so i am currently finishing tomb raider underworld on the xbox. well did i lose to you two monkeys or what?

[Path-Shaper]

Dibs caps off quite possibly the single worst performance I've ever seen from a Mafia veteran this game. Incredible just how poorly he played. Here's a hint:

LOOK AT MY POSTS. I CLEARLY TOLD YOU WHO THE SCUM WERE.

-pb

[Kessobahn]

my bad oh well.

[Hood's Path]

*bows*

Couldn't have done it without ya, Kesso.

And that was a cool ending scene, <3.

[Path-Shaper]

I don't want to take anything away from Silencer and Edrigan. They were dead to rights by almost every measurable standard and did an incredible job. But it amazes me that town botched this one so badly.

1) It was obvious beyond all painful measure that Galain was innocent. Get over your preconceptions of how games should be played with lynches.

2) You then lynched me, in one of the biggest examples of poor town play I've ever seen. Why on EARTH would I randomly show up and get myself in trouble at the expense of Galain, when I could have let his lynch time out? You can claim WIFOM all you want, but look what it got me? Lynched. It's a POOR scum play and should be viewed as very likely to make me town.

3) Then, you stupidly voted night, knowing full well that the person killed would be someone that wasn't going to be killed anyway.

4) Finally, after everyone thought it was HP and D'riss, you voted EMURLAHNIS in some half-baked theory that implicated two low posting players as scum. How on EARTH is that likely? You guys focused so much on unlikely scenarios that it just drove me up the wall.

Kudos to Edrigan for that ballsy move to vote his own partner and put the onus on the soon-to-be-killed Atrahal to lynch. Probably the play of the game.

But it just highlighted how poorly town let this one go.

[Path-Shaper]

And all props go to Shin for the scene. He wrote it as soon as Dibs made that boneheaded move and voted Ano.

Scum actually could have won last night, they were both on but didn't sync up fast enough before someone went to bed.

[Path-Shaper]

On the bright side, the game had decent participation and activity, at least until you killed me, and even occasionally afterwards.

But you guys spend so much time trying to think outside the box that you forget how frequently things are IN the box.

Case in point. Someone lynched on Day 1 has a near zero chance of being scum. If I had voted Galain, he would have been lynched, so I can take that to indicate that he is almost guaranteed to not be scum. You can call that a lack of info, I call that smartly playing the odds. Later in the game, it was pretty obvious I had made the right move, even before I was lynched.

Later, when I'm exonerated by Sorrit's death, why wouldn't you look over our posts? I clearly labeled HP and D'riss as the scum. I even told D'riss I had him beat. It was really obvious to me.

Past is prologue, read up on it rather than coming up with random theories that fit the moment.

[Grief]

I would argue that, on day one, a lynch is still better than not. We very rarely have much to go on-the reason we do in following days isn't because the day number changes from 1 to 2, but because of the actions of day one. Information is crucial, and certainly more important than the life of a single inno-as galain himself pointed out on day one. Normally, an inno will not refuse to vote for the sake of a lynch, regardless of whether or not he thinks the person is scum, at the end of the day, because it just makes the situation worse for the innos in general. I agree that you shouldn't have been lynched though, but that was just because, to me, your behaviour suggested symp more than master. Had we lynched galain, and he came up inno, that would've cleared you as symp, and so maybe we would've listened to your posts.

Scum play to look like town, and I don't think there is any set way of playing as scum, so saying "scm wouldn't play like this" is not really a good argument. After all, there are often very vocal scum, who play agressively, and get attention, who get away with it because that isn't seen as a scummy way to play, compared to lying low.

Congratulations to Silencer and Edrigan.

[Hood's Path]

To be fair, I was seriously playing up some of those stupid moves quietly in a corner, but I still don't get why some of them were made.

I also think there's this preconception of how scum should/do play, and it's so often wrong, inapplicable or misiniterpreted that even when someone *is* playing like that it doesn't hold up.

No lynch on day one was good, because of the modkills, bad because of the lack of kills.

Perhaps we should try the original version of mafia where it starts at night? O.o

[Grief]

Well, being an inno doesn't make you right, so looking back at your posts would only tell us your suspcions, not who the scum were.

The odds of hitting scum on day one are low. But the odds of hitting innos are almost always higher than the odds of hitting scum. Not having a lynch has negative consequences that outweigh the fact that we're likely to hit an inno, imo.

[Silencer]

Path-Shaper, on 25 August 2010 - 10:49 PM, said:

And all props go to Shin for the scene. He wrote it as soon as Dibs made that boneheaded move and voted Ano.

Scum actually could have won last night, they were both on but didn't sync up fast enough before someone went to bed.

Yes, I went to bed after listening to a friend play StarCraft II for an hour over Skype. Ed hadn't PM'd me and in-alt I can't see if someone is on or not, so I couldn't stay up any later waiting.

Ed and I are a good pair this time round, though, because it meant I couldn't low-post like I normally do. I wasn't a high poster by any means, but my normal style just could not have worked out here.

[Grief]

Hood, on 25 August 2010 - 11:09 PM, said:

To be fair, I was seriously playing up some of those stupid moves quietly in a corner, but I still don't get why some of them were made.

I also think there's this preconception of how scum should/do play, and it's so often wrong, inapplicable or misiniterpreted that even when someone *is* playing like that it doesn't hold up.

No lynch on day one was good, because of the modkills, bad because of the lack of kills.

Perhaps we should try the original version of mafia where it starts at night? O.o

Well, part of being scum is playing how people don't expect scum to play so that they think you're inno. So as soon as there's some kind of set idea about precisely what means someone is scum, the scum will start playing differently, so there's never really a definete way for scum to play.

Starting at night would be interesting to try at some stage. Kind of sucks, more than usual, for whoever dies night 1 though. It could also probably lead to a lot of NK speculation on day one, which probably wouldn't help the innos.

[Silencer]

Path-Shaper, on 25 August 2010 - 10:47 PM, said:

Kudos to Edrigan for that ballsy move to vote his own partner and put the onus on the soon-to-be-killed Atrahal to lynch. Probably the play of the game.

But it just highlighted how poorly town let this one go.

This. Once you read our PM convos, you realise how planned out that move actually was. Which is to say, not very much, but it was still something we'd agreed upon as a good option. It is a play that doesn't get made nearly enough, imo - on the one hand, it's a matter of timing, and on the other it's a matter of balls. Definitely a great moment for Ed.

[Silencer]

Grief, on 25 August 2010 - 11:16 PM, said:

Hood, on 25 August 2010 - 11:09 PM, said:

To be fair, I was seriously playing up some of those stupid moves quietly in a corner, but I still don't get why some of them were made.

I also think there's this preconception of how scum should/do play, and it's so often wrong, inapplicable or misiniterpreted that even when someone *is* playing like that it doesn't hold up.

No lynch on day one was good, because of the modkills, bad because of the lack of kills.

Perhaps we should try the original version of mafia where it starts at night? O.o

Well, part of being scum is playing how people don't expect scum to play so that they think you're inno. So as soon as there's some kind of set idea about precisely what means someone is scum, the scum will start playing differently, so there's never really a definete way for scum to play.

Starting at night would be interesting to try at some stage. Kind of sucks, more than usual, for whoever dies night 1 though. It could also probably lead to a lot of NK speculation on day one, which probably wouldn't help the innos.

Yup, but look at how many people said I was playing like scum. So even if you do play like that it just becomes meaningless, which makes me wonder how much of the game is down to luck these days, lol.

Also: still pissed that folk thing 'playing smooth' is a bad thing! D: <

[Grief]

Silencer, on 25 August 2010 - 11:17 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 25 August 2010 - 10:47 PM, said:

Kudos to Edrigan for that ballsy move to vote his own partner and put the onus on the soon-to-be-killed Atrahal to lynch. Probably the play of the game.

But it just highlighted how poorly town let this one go.

This. Once you read our PM convos, you realise how planned out that move actually was. Which is to say, not very much, but it was still something we'd agreed upon as a good option. It is a play that doesn't get made nearly enough, imo - on the one hand, it's a matter of timing, and on the other it's a matter of balls. Definitely a great moment for Ed.

Yeah, it was definetely the better vote. I was getting more suspicious of you later on, due to the stalling. However, I didn't really suspect you much more than kesso or ano, and less than emur, at that stage. It crossed my mind that scum may vote their partner, but as you say, we don't see it that often, so I thought it wasn't very likely-which is what made it such a good play.

[Path-Shaper]

Playing Smooth is just as bad a reason to lynch as any invented one.

You'll notice, for example, Silencer, that my vote on you was based upon the evidence of your vote from the stalled lynch the day before--Galain's lynch. My determination was that your vote was, in fact, the scummiest. It turned out that I was correct in my assessment, the vote was a bit harried and scummy and did lead to scum.

HOWEVER, people were so damned hung up on the fact that I refused to lynch a shitty case that I got lynched instead.

That kind of thing drives me up the wall. Voting for the case I made was a worthy vote. Not a rock-solid case, but better than the fake-symping case on Galain by FAR.

I dunno, I'm not really upset that we lost, but I am frustrated that people talk about playing a certain way here and I think that the way people play is extremely poor... it's predictable and it allows the scum to do things they wish in the early parts of the game.

[Silencer]

Path-Shaper, on 25 August 2010 - 11:29 PM, said:

Playing Smooth is just as bad a reason to lynch as any invented one.

You'll notice, for example, Silencer, that my vote on you was based upon the evidence of your vote from the stalled lynch the day before--Galain's lynch. My determination was that your vote was, in fact, the scummiest. It turned out that I was correct in my assessment, the vote was a bit harried and scummy and did lead to scum.

HOWEVER, people were so damned hung up on the fact that I refused to lynch a shitty case that I got lynched instead.

That kind of thing drives me up the wall. Voting for the case I made was a worthy vote. Not a rock-solid case, but better than the fake-symping case on Galain by FAR.

I dunno, I'm not really upset that we lost, but I am frustrated that people talk about playing a certain way here and I think that the way people play is extremely poor... it's predictable and it allows the scum to do things they wish in the early parts of the game.

Heck, half the stuff I spouted in this game was total bullshit, but it played into certain aspects of the game and, really, was aimed at feeding doubt. And yes, voting me for the Galain thing was probably the best case to come out of that lot. Then again, letting a lynch go on day one is kinda a pet peeve of everyone's around here. It's stupid not to lynch because otherwise there's not a lot to go on day two, even if it accelerates the run to d-day.

What we need to do is set up a game which is M&P, but designed with experimental new play in mind. People doing crazy things, lol. The issue is that we work a certain way, and short of saying 'no, you can't vote for him because of this reason', there isn't any way out of that rut.

High TMDI games and mindfucks are actually more of our speciality, I think. We do better because there's more crazy, so things are less clear-cut. Iunno. On that side of things, I agree with Dibs that people are too chicken to get some votes out there - it's far too easy to stall for time as scum, imo.

EDIT: Oh, and was it just me, or did I honestly manage to see everyone who thought I was scum (on-thread) lynched or NK'd in this game and get away with it? :S
@Grief - yeah, it's just one of those things I personally love to try...it's so rare that if you pull it off, it goes brilliantly. And suspicions get you killed.