[Kessobahn]

yes well - mafia rule number four "anyone who says they are going to die at night needs to be voted for!" You are also missing a common tactic of scum to push hard against a lynch if they know someone is inno so that by association they come across inno. Silchas had clearly banked on two modkills so there was no worries for the scum to stay on timetable, and carrying over a lynch into day 2 means more time when the game is looking a different direction. Slowing the lynches down helps scum, even when they are on a platter. If galain comes back inno after silchas' endless tirade then he will pi himself and point to day 1 as evidence. Also tomorrow he would then push for your lynch, saying you intentionally set galain up.

[Kessobahn]

Silchas Ruin, on 18 August 2010 - 05:57 PM, said:

Like, I don't really see what the benefit is of lynching Galain at this point. The case against him is he was symped by Sorrit, right? So if Galain is scum, then you have to lynch Sorrit (or me for more or less defending him). If he's inno, you can't clear Sorrit, me, or automatically condemn D'riss, etc. It's just another day with virtually 0 info gained.

I think a D'riss lynch, scum or town, gives the 'best' information. And I think a Galain one gives almost 'zero' information. I'd rather deal with this tomorrow than anything.

Here he lays the ground work for just that turn of events, discussing how he is going to try and set the game. Discussing the next lynch after galain and claiming the day would be wasted.

Silchas Ruin, on 18 August 2010 - 09:25 PM, said:

Anyway, despite your comments and arguments about what I did or didn't read, your interpretation of events, and whatnot, you have still failed to realize that if I was on a team with Sorrit and Galain, then we have just lost the game. The idea that I am a member of the team, would show up out of nowhere near the lynch, and then draw attention to myself is probably the absolute dumbest possible thing I can think.

And I can think of a lot of things.

And again pushing forward the association with galain by telling us that although we are thinking it, we are wrong.

[Sorrit]

Kessobahn, on 19 August 2010 - 07:56 AM, said:

yes well - mafia rule number four "anyone who says they are going to die at night needs to be voted for!" You are also missing a common tactic of scum to push hard against a lynch if they know someone is inno so that by association they come across inno. Silchas had clearly banked on two modkills so there was no worries for the scum to stay on timetable, and carrying over a lynch into day 2 means more time when the game is looking a different direction. Slowing the lynches down helps scum, even when they are on a platter. If galain comes back inno after silchas' endless tirade then he will pi himself and point to day 1 as evidence. Also tomorrow he would then push for your lynch, saying you intentionally set galain up.

Fair enough...he could be playing us....but i seriously doubt it.

He could have easily have dropped the hammer vote on Galain and still got his 2 mod kills you say he was banking on.... add a night kill, then the next day he would could have gone after me just like you said. That would be another inno lynch, plus a night kill.
That would be 6 inno's down on day 3!! Game over...
He was not backed into a corner, when he came out he was not a suspect of note yet he pretty much went and put a target on his back for no reason watso ever?
No im sorry Kessoh, I seriously doubt he would have tried to slow play if he where scum simply for one or two of us to MAYBE believe he is PI.
No one really falls for that shit anymore this isnt mafia 6.

[Path-Shaper]

Day 2, 23 hours and 27 minutes remain.


10 players are left alive. Anomandaris, Atrahal, D'riss, Emurlahnis, Galain, Hood's Path, Kessobahn, Olar Ethil, Silchas Ruin, Sorrit,

6 votes to lynch, 5 to go to night.

1 vote Silchas Ruin: Kessobahn

Players not voted: Anomandaris, Atrahal, D'riss, Emurlahnis, Galain, Hood's Path, Olar Ethil, Silchas Ruin, Sorrit

[Sorrit]

Kessobahn, on 19 August 2010 - 08:02 AM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 18 August 2010 - 05:57 PM, said:

Like, I don't really see what the benefit is of lynching Galain at this point. The case against him is he was symped by Sorrit, right? So if Galain is scum, then you have to lynch Sorrit (or me for more or less defending him). If he's inno, you can't clear Sorrit, me, or automatically condemn D'riss, etc. It's just another day with virtually 0 info gained.

I think a D'riss lynch, scum or town, gives the 'best' information. And I think a Galain one gives almost 'zero' information. I'd rather deal with this tomorrow than anything.

Here he lays the ground work for just that turn of events, discussing how he is going to try and set the game. Discussing the next lynch after galain and claiming the day would be wasted.

Silchas Ruin, on 18 August 2010 - 09:25 PM, said:

Anyway, despite your comments and arguments about what I did or didn't read, your interpretation of events, and whatnot, you have still failed to realize that if I was on a team with Sorrit and Galain, then we have just lost the game. The idea that I am a member of the team, would show up out of nowhere near the lynch, and then draw attention to myself is probably the absolute dumbest possible thing I can think.

And I can think of a lot of things.

And again pushing forward the association with galain by telling us that although we are thinking it, we are wrong.

Well actually the easy answer would be that either he really believes that the case on galain is bull shit. Which it is.
OR he is galains symp.

You are really muddying the waters with your fantastical WIFOM ideas.
So anybody that stand up for someone else is either a symp, or is trying to look PI? from the inno's resulting CF.....i thought we had all gotten over this way of thinking a long time ago.

You are seeming to ignore the initial point at hand, what about galain? are you just going to give galain a free pass all of the sudden?
OR are you setting up your next target?
Im not really liking your train of thought, of course it could just be a clash of opinions but its starting to get to me.

[Kessobahn]

Get over galain? From the person who started it all that is kinda rich. The case on galain is based upon the actions of others, the fact that you are wanting him back in the spotlight is quite amusing when you spent yesterday evening apologising to him for putting him there int he first place. This isnt mafia 1, people don't have to vote for someone everyday until they are lynched if they think there is someone better out there.

You claim I am muddying the waters, i made a case about a player and I voted. Whats muddying about that?

[Galain]

Sorrit, on 19 August 2010 - 08:16 AM, said:

Kessobahn, on 19 August 2010 - 07:56 AM, said:

yes well - mafia rule number four "anyone who says they are going to die at night needs to be voted for!" You are also missing a common tactic of scum to push hard against a lynch if they know someone is inno so that by association they come across inno. Silchas had clearly banked on two modkills so there was no worries for the scum to stay on timetable, and carrying over a lynch into day 2 means more time when the game is looking a different direction. Slowing the lynches down helps scum, even when they are on a platter. If galain comes back inno after silchas' endless tirade then he will pi himself and point to day 1 as evidence. Also tomorrow he would then push for your lynch, saying you intentionally set galain up.

Fair enough...he could be playing us....but i seriously doubt it.

He could have easily have dropped the hammer vote on Galain and still got his 2 mod kills you say he was banking on.... add a night kill, then the next day he would could have gone after me just like you said. That would be another inno lynch, plus a night kill.
That would be 6 inno's down on day 3!! Game over...
He was not backed into a corner, when he came out he was not a suspect of note yet he pretty much went and put a target on his back for no reason watso ever?
No im sorry Kessoh, I seriously doubt he would have tried to slow play if he where scum simply for one or two of us to MAYBE believe he is PI.
No one really falls for that shit anymore this isnt mafia 6.

Arguments like this boil down to being so much WIFOM. Scum don't necessarily do what the best thing for scum to do would be, for a whole variety of different reasons. I am a bit suspicious that TS would come out guns blazing for me, but after everything he said, he could still have made a big thing about not wanting to lynch me and doing it purely to get a lynch and still get his name tied to my CF.

[Sorrit]

Kessobahn, on 19 August 2010 - 08:33 AM, said:

Get over galain? From the person who started it all that is kinda rich.

Erm...what?...i never said you must get over galain?
take another gander at what i said.

Kessobahn, on 19 August 2010 - 08:33 AM, said:

The case on galain is based upon the actions of others, the fact that you are wanting him back in the spotlight is quite amusing when you spent yesterday evening apologising to him for putting him there int he first place.

Well i am a realist, no matter what happens the whole galain thing needs to be sorted out for the good of the game it was an issue last night and it still is now..
What has me apologizing to him got to do with the fact that it IS still an issue in the game.

Yes....it was partly my fault. But dont think that Atrahal, HP or yourself had no part what so ever in blowing that whole thing out of proportion!
If you look at the initial case at face value it is rubbish... but thats neither here nor there any more now is it?

Kessobahn, on 19 August 2010 - 08:33 AM, said:

This isnt mafia 1, people don't have to vote for someone everyday until they are lynched if they think there is someone better out there.

You claim I am muddying the waters, i made a case about a player and I voted. Whats muddying about that?

You are muddying the waters by changing your mind. And coming up with a WIFOM type case that you cant prove one way or another.
Your own case and vote on silchas now means that all of the sudden, you think galain IS innocent? What has changed?
So that means that yesterday you voted for galain.... why? To get the lynch?
You think they are both guilty? Thats highly unlikely.
I could easily just say what you said about silchas and say it looks to me like you are trying to set up silchas for when galain turns up inno.
It just doesnt gel for me...sorry.

Im just not sure what to make of your actions... could just be your trying different approach...i can appreciate that.
But you are muddying things a bit.

[Sorrit]

Galain, on 19 August 2010 - 08:38 AM, said:

Sorrit, on 19 August 2010 - 08:16 AM, said:

Kessobahn, on 19 August 2010 - 07:56 AM, said:

yes well - mafia rule number four "anyone who says they are going to die at night needs to be voted for!" You are also missing a common tactic of scum to push hard against a lynch if they know someone is inno so that by association they come across inno. Silchas had clearly banked on two modkills so there was no worries for the scum to stay on timetable, and carrying over a lynch into day 2 means more time when the game is looking a different direction. Slowing the lynches down helps scum, even when they are on a platter. If galain comes back inno after silchas' endless tirade then he will pi himself and point to day 1 as evidence. Also tomorrow he would then push for your lynch, saying you intentionally set galain up.

Fair enough...he could be playing us....but i seriously doubt it.

He could have easily have dropped the hammer vote on Galain and still got his 2 mod kills you say he was banking on.... add a night kill, then the next day he would could have gone after me just like you said. That would be another inno lynch, plus a night kill.
That would be 6 inno's down on day 3!! Game over...
He was not backed into a corner, when he came out he was not a suspect of note yet he pretty much went and put a target on his back for no reason watso ever?
No im sorry Kessoh, I seriously doubt he would have tried to slow play if he where scum simply for one or two of us to MAYBE believe he is PI.
No one really falls for that shit anymore this isnt mafia 6.

Arguments like this boil down to being so much WIFOM. Scum don't necessarily do what the best thing for scum to do would be, for a whole variety of different reasons. I am a bit suspicious that TS would come out guns blazing for me, but after everything he said, he could still have made a big thing about not wanting to lynch me and doing it purely to get a lynch and still get his name tied to my CF.

Thats why its best to stick with what normally should be the case.
To start coming up with even more elaborate WIFOM idea all of the sudden is not really helping.

[Sorrit]

Galain, on 19 August 2010 - 08:38 AM, said:

he could still have made a big thing about not wanting to lynch me and doing it purely to get a lynch and still get his name tied to my CF.

As you can see, if he did try and do that, it most definitely has not worked.

This "trick" has not worked for a long time, people are too paranoid about every little thing these days.

[Sorrit]

Ok let me try and put my thoughts simply in one post.

It would seem that at the moment, Galains CF is what determines where we go next.
We have myself who is a potential symp for galain, we have silchas that has come out and was either simping Galain or pretending to stick up for an inno CF to appear inno.
(or silchas is inno and just doesnt like the case, but that doesnt really matter here.)

So...for Kessoh's case to actually make any sense we still need to know if galain is inno or not. And its strange that he would not want to find out since he was gunning for galain yesterday already?
So why start voting for silchas when you still need galains CF to make your new case stick?

Kessoh could in my eyes simply be setting up his next target.
or he has serious tunnel vision (like atrahal) and when he see's something he forgets whatever else is going on.

So....i dunno.

[Sorrit]

ok...erm...looks like im alone so will go do some work.

[Kessobahn]

Sorrit, on 19 August 2010 - 09:07 AM, said:

Ok let me try and put my thoughts simply in one post.

It would seem that at the moment, Galains CF is what determines where we go next.
We have myself who is a potential symp for galain, we have silchas that has come out and was either simping Galain or pretending to stick up for an inno CF to appear inno.
(or silchas is inno and just doesnt like the case, but that doesnt really matter here.)

So...for Kessoh's case to actually make any sense we still need to know if galain is inno or not. And its strange that he would not want to find out since he was gunning for galain yesterday already?
So why start voting for silchas when you still need galains CF to make your new case stick?

Kessoh could in my eyes simply be setting up his next target.
or he has serious tunnel vision (like atrahal) and when he see's something he forgets whatever else is going on.

So....i dunno.

My case has absolutely nothing to do with galains guilt or innocence and is solely based upon silchas play. I said yesterday numerous times how galain did nothing to imply guilt but the actions of others was incriminating him. I felt that was a better case for day 1 than you (for being symp like) or driss (for voting while discussing others). Even without a lynch though sides have been drawn up and a lot happened during the night. I think it is you who has tunnel vision. I made my case and placed one vote down at the start of a thirty six hour day and you (as yesterday) overreact.

to boil down my case into points you clearly missed :-
silchas refused to vote thus costing us a lynch
silchas claimed he would die at night
silchas made a comment about galains guilt during day 1, yet when galain was on the chopping block he did a complete uturn to become associated with gaalin
silchas on day 1 was portaining to be utterly certain of galains innocence when only scum could be

[Sorrit]

Kessobahn, on 19 August 2010 - 09:25 AM, said:

Sorrit, on 19 August 2010 - 09:07 AM, said:

Ok let me try and put my thoughts simply in one post.

It would seem that at the moment, Galains CF is what determines where we go next.
We have myself who is a potential symp for galain, we have silchas that has come out and was either simping Galain or pretending to stick up for an inno CF to appear inno.
(or silchas is inno and just doesnt like the case, but that doesnt really matter here.)

So...for Kessoh's case to actually make any sense we still need to know if galain is inno or not. And its strange that he would not want to find out since he was gunning for galain yesterday already?
So why start voting for silchas when you still need galains CF to make your new case stick?

Kessoh could in my eyes simply be setting up his next target.
or he has serious tunnel vision (like atrahal) and when he see's something he forgets whatever else is going on.

So....i dunno.

My case has absolutely nothing to do with galains guilt or innocence and is solely based upon silchas play. I said yesterday numerous times how galain did nothing to imply guilt but the actions of others was incriminating him. I felt that was a better case for day 1 than you (for being symp like) or driss (for voting while discussing others). Even without a lynch though sides have been drawn up and a lot happened during the night. I think it is you who has tunnel vision. I made my case and placed one vote down at the start of a thirty six hour day and you (as yesterday) overreact.

to boil down my case into points you clearly missed :-
silchas refused to vote thus costing us a lynch
silchas claimed he would die at night
silchas made a comment about galains guilt during day 1, yet when galain was on the chopping block he did a complete uturn to become associated with gaalin
silchas on day 1 was portaining to be utterly certain of galains innocence when only scum could be

ok....so you are going to give galain a pass then?
Im just intersted in your motives, as i see it they are a bit all over the show.

[Sorrit]

Kessobahn, on 19 August 2010 - 09:25 AM, said:

I think it is you who has tunnel vision. I made my case and placed one vote down at the start of a thirty six hour day and you (as yesterday) overreact.

How do i have tunnel vision?...i am questioning everyones posts on their merrit. Im not stuck on any one single idea.
And i will ask you anyfuckign question i please.

I am not over reacting and neither did i do so yesterday, i am questioning your motives now, shall i just shut up so as to make the game easy for you?

[Atrahal]

Silchas Ruin, on 18 August 2010 - 10:36 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 18 August 2010 - 10:08 PM, said:

IIRC, you also mentioned yourself as a potential target earlier in the day.

If you are aware of the chance of galain being lynch tommorow, why not lynch today. Wasting the day is a bad move for the innos, regardless of your personal view on his innocence.

Because it shortens the clock by a full day.

What?

You do realise that is the reason scum like no lynch, and the reason innos don't, right?

I would be happy to lynch silchas. While he does appear as a possible symp(looking like asking for a NK, strongly protective of galain) he' also potential scum. Mainly this is based on the refusal to lynch. If he's scum, he could know that Galain would CF inno, so maybe look better by opposing it. If that were the case though, he'd probably have just said "I oppose the case, but vote for a lynch". The refusal to vote is really wierd.

Not gonna vote now, cause I'll be back later.

[Sorrit]

I will say i have a unique perspective on what silchas has been saying and his reasoning behind it. So my point of view will seem...skewed to you lot.
Since i am the only one who knows for a fact that the case on galain is bullshit (yet at the same time it does not make him PI) and i can appreciate it when someone else can rise above the bullshit and see things the way i know them to be. Mayeb so much so that i am being a bit biased...fair enough.

But you will note that i do think it was a bad idea not to lynch galain. because we needed to move on.
And i do think that the most likely scum scenario would be that Silchas refused to vote for galain because galain is his master and silchas the symp.
Only after that, do i think that either silchas is a very stubborn inno and thinks Galain case crap or he is trying to look good by backing a inno CF. (yet he could still have capitulated right at the end reluctantly)

I just find the change of heart strange by some of you guys that were so instrumental in setting up this whole galain thing in the first place. Since this new view implies that galain has to be inno.
It seems to me like people are just lining up all the dominoes flick them all come down to land nicely where they want.

The point i think im trying to make is that it is very unlikly that both of them are killers. They could bother be scum but not killers.
So its very difficult for me to see you guys who were quite gung-ho for galain yesterday, rubbish that idea in favour of another one.
Its difficult for me to explain....but something feels....wrong.

[Sorrit]

Atrahal, on 19 August 2010 - 10:33 AM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 18 August 2010 - 10:36 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 18 August 2010 - 10:08 PM, said:

IIRC, you also mentioned yourself as a potential target earlier in the day.

If you are aware of the chance of galain being lynch tommorow, why not lynch today. Wasting the day is a bad move for the innos, regardless of your personal view on his innocence.

Because it shortens the clock by a full day.

What?

You do realise that is the reason scum like no lynch, and the reason innos don't, right?

well....there is the fact that there were two mod kills lined up aswell and i might have hesitated myself if i was there last night knowing that we could be 4 inno's down on day 2!

meh

edit - their/there....eish

This post has been edited by Sorrit: 19 August 2010 - 10:59 AM

[Kessobahn]

Kessobahn, on 18 August 2010 - 11:02 AM, said:

@sorritt - though i enjoy your vigour, from a personal view i find it harder to decide if someone is guilty or inno when they are accusing me. Knowing you are inno can make any attack on your play seem like a deliberate scum tactic to undermine you, which is why laying down pressure votes to invoke a reaction is imo a good tactic, but explaining them and using the words symp or master about yourself and another player is not.

vote galain

If sorritt is a symp (which is more likely than killer imo) then his signal could only have been to hp or galain. Galain is the more obvious choice of the two. Sorritt's subsequent reaction to pressure has also increased the likelihood that he is trying to muddy the waters to mask this fact with odd discussion about his supposed own tactics. Personally i havent found galains play to be that scummy, but even the actions of another player must be taken into account during the game and its hard to ignore such a blatant symp clue as sorrit produced in only his second post.

As i am the only player so far voting (you say we should lynch galain but dont vote for him) I find it odd that you think i was gung ho for galain yesterday when i clearly stated that i didnt find him suspicious but felt it necessary to vote due to the actions of others which on day 1 made a better case than the others presented. Now I have a case of my own which i made and i vote for that and you find it suspicious? That unique perspective you are talking about, keep it.

[Sorrit]

erm...dunno what the fuck happened here
will repost this post so ignore....weird

Kessobahn, on 19 August 2010 - 11:14 AM, said:

<br>

Kessobahn, on 18 August 2010 - 11:02 AM, said:

<br>@sorritt - though i enjoy your vigour, from a&nbsp;&nbsp;personal view i find it harder to decide if someone is guilty or inno when they are accusing me.&nbsp;&nbsp;Knowing you are inno can make any attack on your play seem like a deliberate scum tactic to undermine you, which is why laying down pressure votes to invoke a reaction is imo a good tactic, but explaining them and using the words symp or master about yourself and another player is not.<br><br><b>vote galain</b><br><br>If sorritt is a symp (which is more likely than killer imo) then his signal could only have been to hp or galain.&nbsp;&nbsp;Galain is the more obvious choice of the two.&nbsp;&nbsp;Sorritt's subsequent reaction to pressure has also increased the likelihood that he is trying to muddy the waters to mask this fact with odd discussion about his supposed own tactics.&nbsp;&nbsp;Personally i havent found galains play to be that scummy, but even the actions of another player must be taken into account during the game and its hard to ignore such a blatant symp clue as sorrit produced in only his second post.<br><br>

<br><br>As i am the only player so far voting (you say we should lynch galain but dont vote for him) I find it odd that you think i was gung ho for galain yesterday when i clearly stated that i didnt find him suspicious but felt it necessary to vote due to the actions of others which on day 1 made a better case than the others presented.&nbsp;&nbsp;Now I have a case of my own which i made and i vote for that and you find it suspicious?&nbsp;&nbsp;That unique perspective you are talking about, keep it.<br>

<br><br>No you are right....You never gunned for galain...not directly that is.<br>But you did helped in the onslaught on myself with the whole idea i was his symp! <br>Wich means, that you were helping with the case that i am a symp... galains symp...see where i am heading?<br><br>So excuse me for adding up 1 + 1 and actually get 2<br><br>Your constant insistence that you never really wanted to vote for galain is laughable to me.<br>On the one hand you have your case that states silchas was trying to look inno by not wanting to vote for Galain...<br>Yet on the other hand, by your very own words, you ASLO didnt really want to vote for galain!<br>And you have staed this a few times now!!....pot calling the kettle black much?<div>You could just as easily been trying to do the same thing at the time. Just more subtler.*</div><div><br>So we have you, who helped in attacking myself yesterday and helped in establishing that i could be a symp.<br>You have nicely stated that galain is not the problem and you "dont want to vote him but see no other choice"<br>Then you come the following day and build a case on someone for doing pretty much the same thing you keep saying you didnt really want to do?<br>And you wonder why i am asking these questions?<br><br>And as for my unique perspective, it is here for one and all to see untill you lynch me or nk me...no snarky comments you make can change that fact...sorry.

</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>edit - typos and added * for good measure</div>

This post has been edited by Sorrit: 19 August 2010 - 11:44 AM