[Ammanas]

After re-reading DoD, I find the Errant even more clueless than ever. I have a strong feeling he won't ever meet Paran. Sechul Lath or Oponn will take the idiot out. I confess to being so clueless as to miss the fact that Lath created the "Oponnai" to deal with the vast hordes of mortality after he got tired got of it. IIRC, Mael aske Killy when Lath is going to terminate the Errant and Killy responds, "Oh, my son is nothing if not subtle." Killy and Lath are one weird mother-son combo.

I believe Mael told Killy that ST/COT were present when Rake killed Hood. Killy responds, "Them." and smashes stones with her fists. I'm taking this as an implication that ST/COT might have taken High House Death. Cutter foreshadowed this way back in HOC, I think, when he asked Apsalar whether ST would seize the thrones of various Houses and do nothing with them. ST is accustomed to undead armies, so why not take HHD and resurrect the dead Eleint we saw in RG?

I never caught that Sandalath was Orfantal's and Korlat's mother.

About Picker's message to Karsa---the god he will help slay won't be the CG; it will be Killy.

[SpectreofEschaton]

Hmm...given the new fate of the Bridgeburners that could be interesting indeed. I never thought of that, though, I'll admit.

[GingerBreadMan]

I think her rage was aimed more at ShadowThrone/Cotillion being annoying little schemers

The way I interpreted all of those events were that Bridgeburners were replacing Hood, although Trotts did specify "in times of war" to which Iskar Jarak replied "Life itself is a war, one it is doomed to lose, do not think our rest will come soon"

Which could mean they are responsible for ALL souls as everything is "war".

I don't think Shadowthrone is going to take "Death", I doubt Hood/Rake would allow that..same goes for Iskar Jarak.

But it may still serve his purposes, the God of Death, a distant and perhaps unfeeling Jaghut was replaced by Malazans, ones he knew and likely trusted.

If you cannot seize a throne for yourself, the next best thing is to place someone you trust on it.

[Hetan]

As GingerBreadMan said above ^ I also doubt that ST would sit his ass on the throne of death - it would invite another convergence and he's already shown that he doesn't want to do that.
Guardians of the Road are minding the shop.

[MTS]

Hetan, on 12 August 2010 - 08:09 AM, said:

Guardians of the Road are minding the shop.

Implied impermanence? Are you telling us someone else rules Death in TCG?

[Captain Awesome]

I kinda thought IJ/WJ was in charge, either because he didn't want to be and therefore was the best option, esp going into the clusterF that CG is prob gonna be, or until someone worthy was found to take up the chair...

[worry]

Well, they are aspected towards War and not Death, right? I know there's acknowledgment of the connection between the two, but it still seems like they are acting heads of Death right now and it's not a permanent situation.

[Ammanas]

GingerBreadMan, on 12 August 2010 - 05:11 AM, said:

I think her rage was aimed more at ShadowThrone/Cotillion being annoying little schemers

The way I interpreted all of those events were that Bridgeburners were replacing Hood, although Trotts did specify "in times of war" to which Iskar Jarak replied "Life itself is a war, one it is doomed to lose, do not think our rest will come soon"

Which could mean they are responsible for ALL souls as everything is "war".

I don't think Shadowthrone is going to take "Death", I doubt Hood/Rake would allow that..same goes for Iskar Jarak.

But it may still serve his purposes, the God of Death, a distant and perhaps unfeeling Jaghut was replaced by Malazans, ones he knew and likely trusted.

If you cannot seize a throne for yourself, the next best thing is to place someone you trust on it.

Well, Rake is dead and gone. Hood is alive and gone, not to mention "through with death." As for WJ, I don't see why he'd care. I don't think convergence prevents ST from taking thrones although it may prevent him from taking overt action. I also find it amusing that other gods regard ST/COT as "schemers." They all scheme, cept maybe for Mael. Even Killy, although she sucks at it.

How ironic that Hood is alive. I doubt even Dassem can carve through 13 or 14 Jaghut warriors to get to Hood. So I'd like to see Dassem take over HH and Hood die again.

This post has been edited by Ammanas: 12 August 2010 - 09:33 PM

[champ]

I reckon the difference is tho that ST/COT are better schemers than most and is it Oponn who states that they never plays by the rules... hence the killy stompathon! was a cracking scene to picture, made us laugh!

Quote by Gruntle MoI

Quote

"...The gods can be damned thick-witted on occasions - probably why they need us mortals to do the straight thinking when straight thinkings required

i reckon thats why ST/COT have the edge on the stale older gods, they had mad mortal ownage skills!

This post has been edited by champooon: 12 August 2010 - 09:43 PM

[Seras]

Found an interesting bit today, Badelle saw through the eyes of Gu'rull apparently? I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something akin to "I saw other children, lots of them, and from the children she stole fire". The very next scene had Fiddler wondering what the hell happened to Stormy & Ges...

[GingerBreadMan]

Erayle, on 14 August 2010 - 04:50 AM, said:

Found an interesting bit today, Badelle saw through the eyes of Gu'rull apparently? I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something akin to "I saw other children, lots of them, and from the children she stole fire". The very next scene had Fiddler wondering what the hell happened to Stormy & Ges...

Yea she definitely "rode" alongside his mind and saw through his eyes.

She mentions having strange dreams both day and night, seeing tens of thousands of children march with oxen and wagons etc.. Children but not HER children. Then it was night and she had to descend in stealth, avoid the magic in the camp, she saw two bright flames she had been tracking for a long time because this is what had been commanded.

So for at least that moment she was with him when he was stalking Stormy/Ges and when he snatched them but I always got the idea that she saw beyond that.

That when she dreamed she was floating from perspective to perspective around the world(or at least her area)

A related sentence-

"She had learned so much. When she'd had wings and journeyed across the world. Stealing thoughts, snatching ideas."

This seems to imply she was "riding" multiple perspectives, stealing "multiple people's" thoughts and ideas.

[Excellence]

Exactly -- what was said above, The Chained Cackler is the deity Karsa is meant to slay.

Reading Dust of Dreams, it's either Errant, Sechul or Kilmandaros. All of whom could slay him with just gestures, really.

So consider who sent Karsa on his mission. Hood. Hood is in alliance with Shadowthrone. Maybe Hood doesn't like Shadowthrone's ambition. Maybe Karsa is Hood's hidden card.

[Seras]

Captain Lull (DG) got half his face obliterated by a mace, the wound is identical/similar to that of a Seerdomin that Lady Envy and co encounter.

All Jaghut have RAAAAGE modes!

"Tool, they weren't very warlike, were they? I mean, before your kind sought to destroy them"
The Imass was slow to reply, "Even then," he said at last. "They key lay in making them angry, for then they destroyed indiscriminately, including their own"


Found a marching song of the Bonehunters in DG! Just goes to show that Steve had everything mapped out right from the beginning


Coltaine rattles slow
across the burning land.
The wind howls through the bones
of his hate-ridden command.
Coltaine leads a chain of dogs
ever snapping at his hand.

Coltaine's fist bleeds the journey home
along rivers of red-soaked sand.
His train howls through his bones
in spiteful reprimand.
Coltaine leads a chain of dogs
ever snapping at his hand.

[HoosierDaddy]

Quote

All Jaghut have RAAAAGE modes!

"Tool, they weren't very warlike, were they? I mean, before your kind sought to destroy them"
The Imass was slow to reply, "Even then," he said at last. "They key lay in making them angry, for then they destroyed indiscriminately, including their own"

You don't find Tool to be a suspect source? A perfect example being that Jaghut Tyrants were destroyed because of their tyranny with Jaghut allying themselves with Imass; also, Jaghut families being hunted to death were put to mercy (MoI prologue). Not a reference to Icarium, who seems to be the exception to the Jaghut.

This post has been edited by H.D.: 03 September 2010 - 06:56 AM

[Seras]

No

[HoosierDaddy]

You know what, you are right.

Toll the Hounds, Bantam, 574-575.

Quote

"Tell me, High King, did you know they broke peace only once? In all their existance - no, not the T'lan Imass - that war belonged to those savages and the Jaghut were a most reluctant foe."
....
"Yes, an entire people gathered, a host of singular will. Legions uncountable. Their standard was RAGE, their clarion call injustice."

Now, I don't think this quote necessarily is what yours means, but nonetheless, it is a valid rebuttal. Your quote denotes a sort of insane destruction, which I think is only characterized by Raest and Icarium, possibly Pannion. As opposed to that example, I'd give you Gothos.

This post has been edited by H.D.: 03 September 2010 - 08:33 AM

[Sinisdar Toste]

the older, wiser (gothos, hood, 'gig) types would obviously be slower to anger, i should think, but would probably be no less, and even more, devastating than their short-tempered kin.

[Abyss]

Excellence, on 18 August 2010 - 01:31 AM, said:

Exactly -- what was said above, The Chained Cackler is the deity Karsa is meant to slay.

Reading Dust of Dreams, it's either Errant, Sechul or Kilmandaros. All of whom could slay him with just gestures, really....

So which are you saying it is?

Afaik, Karsa has vowed to do bad things to the Unbound and the CG. In TtH Picker refers to his vow, but it's vague whether she means 'any' god or a specific god.

H.D., on 03 September 2010 - 06:55 AM, said:

Quote

All Jaghut have RAAAAGE modes!

"Tool, they weren't very warlike, were they? I mean, before your kind sought to destroy them"
The Imass was slow to reply, "Even then," he said at last. "They key lay in making them angry, for then they destroyed indiscriminately, including their own"

You don't find Tool to be a suspect source? A perfect example being that Jaghut Tyrants were destroyed because of their tyranny with Jaghut allying themselves with Imass; also, Jaghut families being hunted to death were put to mercy (MoI prologue). Not a reference to Icarium, who seems to be the exception to the Jaghut.

I would suspect Tool is referring specificaly to Tyrants, except that in DG Corporal List has visions of a Jaghut family that were targetted by the Imass, so it may be that when pushed far enough any jaghut may go berserk. The Seer's mom in the MoI prologue is a bad example, as she was starved, exhautted and gave up once Kilava took her kids.

H.D., on 03 September 2010 - 08:15 AM, said:

You know what, you are right.

Toll the Hounds, Bantam, 574-575.

Quote

"Tell me, High King, did you know they broke peace only once? In all their existance - no, not the T'lan Imass - that war belonged to those savages and the Jaghut were a most reluctant foe."
....
"Yes, an entire people gathered, a host of singular will. Legions uncountable. Their standard was RAGE, their clarion call injustice."

Now, I don't think this quote necessarily is what yours means, but nonetheless, it is a valid rebuttal. Your quote denotes a sort of insane destruction, which I think is only characterized by Raest and Icarium, possibly Pannion. As opposed to that example, I'd give you Gothos.

That quote goes a to a different point - if the Imass started a fight then it wasn't the Jaghut breaking the peace, and it disregards the Tyrants who weren't exactly cuddly peaceful types, albeit an exception to the rest of the race.

Sinisdar Toste, on 03 September 2010 - 05:36 PM, said:

the older, wiser (gothos, hood, 'gig) types would obviously be slower to anger, i should think, but would probably be no less, and even more, devastating than their short-tempered kin.

Agreed. Goths froze death on an entire continent for a few hundred thousand years. you do NOT want to piss him off.

It's unclear just where Iccy's rage comes from and how much of it is internal and how much is due to the chaos infection when he broke an azath, but i'm betting on a cumulative effect.

[Seras]

Another soft laugh from the Jaghut. 'Raest was the name of the Tyrant we defeated. One of my more obnoxiously arrogant offspring. I do not mourn his fall. In any case, unlike Raest, I was never the strutting kind. It is a sign of weakness to shine blinding bright with one's own power. Pathetic diffidence. A need that undermines. I was more...secure.' - Gothos, TTH Bantam PB pg 285

Going off this quote, I think the reason Gothos has never unleashed the full force of his power is because he is aware of the damage it can cause. That, and the attention it would draw to him (I doubt his kin and the T'lan Imass would sit by and watch him freeze Seven Cities).



When skill with a sword was but passing, something else was needed. Rage. The curse that was rage broke its vessel, sent fissures through the brittle clay, sought out every weakness in the temper, the mica grit that only revealed itself in the edges of broken shards. No repairs were possible, no glue creeping out when the fragments were pressed back together, to be wiped smooth with a fingertip. - Nimander, TTH Bantam PB pg 276

Another reason could be that rage would blind him to the damage he could do both to himself and others. I'll use Icarium as an example here, he was pissed, and trying to get Gothos out of the Azath. It resulted in a tumour for him (recall the conversation between Cotillion and Mappo after Mogora healed him?) that made him lose his memory. He also wounded a warren in the process (it was Kurald Emurlahn, I think).

[Excellence]

Still reading Dust of Dreams, but around midbook there was very carefully worded conversation between Bottle and Quick. Erikson was throwing out very bltant cues on Quick.

We just don't understand it yet.

And Throatslitter being a Talon! And there's another. Cool. But what will become of this, I wonder?

And that one off line -- Hood's forces taking care of Draconus' collection of horrible monsters. No problem. Not unleashed on the living world. Remember how we were all worried about that last year if the sword was destroyed?

This post has been edited by Excellence: 04 September 2010 - 11:02 AM