[Abyss]

STill a big question re just what their plan is. Saving the world from the CG, sure, because if he 'wins' they are pretty much done for. Consider that as of TB, we know they have had a diabolical plan that includes building an empire, gaining access to the Azath, using the Azath and their Empire to ascend to godhood... and now what they're up to isn't quite clear...

Cots' chat with the dragons certainly suggests he's got a Master Plan in mind, and we've seen from HoC and Tb that Cots (if not Ammanas) seems to be acting in the world's best interests, but just what when and how is still vague.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Abyss, on 23 September 2010 - 01:26 PM, said:

STill a big question re just what their plan is. Saving the world from the CG, sure, because if he 'wins' they are pretty much done for. Consider that as of TB, we know they have had a diabolical plan that includes building an empire, gaining access to the Azath, using the Azath and their Empire to ascend to godhood... and now what they're up to isn't quite clear...

Cots' chat with the dragons certainly suggests he's got a Master Plan in mind, and we've seen from HoC and Tb that Cots (if not Ammanas) seems to be acting in the world's best interests, but just what when and how is still vague.

Do you really think forging their empire was part of their master plan? Because they gained access to an Azath before they even conquered the Untan mainland. I think its more likely they planned to create an empire, and then in the process realized they could become gods, found out some interesting stuff about the future of the world while mapping the Azath, and formed a plan to ascend and then do something about it.

Yes, maybe they thought that ruling the empire and all the things they would need to do to make that happen would make them ascend, and then they planned to go from there, but I think my first paragraph makes more sense.

[Abyss]

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 23 September 2010 - 05:42 PM, said:

...Do you really think forging their empire was part of their master plan? Because they gained access to an Azath before they even conquered the Untan mainland....

Actually yes I do. You're absolutely right that they had access to an Azath before they finished conquering Unta and on to other continents, but consider what they did with that Empire... they wiped out various Shadow Cults. Why? So that when the Shadow Moon came about and it was time to make their move to ascend, no one would be able to challenge their control of shadow. On top of that, ascnesion requires sacrifice - giving up rulership of an empire and faking your own death is pretty high on the sacrifical scale.

I suspect there is more to it that we haven't been told yet, but i stand by my theory that the Malazan Empire was just step 1 for Kel and Dancer.

[Tattersail_]

I agree with Abyss. They have an overall masterplan we may not know what it is but it has been hinted at a lot that they have. they supposedly know a lot about the azaths and what is coming and have planned for it. One interesting theory I have but I can't quite put my finger on it is the reason they picked shadow out of all the pantheon/thrones to Godhood, there are many thrones/realms that have the seat unoocupied, but I think they picked the shadow because of light and dark, that they have access to both through shadow. they will play a major role in tCG and we will start to see the strings they have been pulling

[HedgeWalker]

Abyss, on 23 September 2010 - 08:14 PM, said:

I suspect there is more to it that we haven't been told yet, but i stand by my theory that the Malazan Empire was just step 1 for Kel and Dancer.

Agreed. I have a strong feeling that during the expansion of the Empire, Kell/Cots realised a greater threat/challenge, and from that point on the Empire has become a part of a larger plan...

Like the 'Shadow sits between light and dark, has access to both' concept - that one hadn't dropped, nice!

Plans within plans...Oooooh, what a tangled web we weave...All part of life's rich tapestry...I love it when a Flan comes together...I ain't gettin' in no Throne-of-the-sea...Hey! You! Get off o' my Flan!...CLICHE-GASM!

<message ends>

[Rhand]

Ever since reading that conversation between Cotillion and the dragons I can think only about one thing: how the hell does a pure dragon SIT on a throne

[Kanese S's]

Ammanas and Cotillion are just crafty mofos like that. They probably knew what was up and so arranged to do things in a way that wouldn't allow anyone the opportunity to prevent their seizing of the throne of Shadow.<br><br>I may be remembering things incorrectly, but as for what part the Empire was in their plans, I seem to recall at some point reading that they started planning to ascend when they realized that their goals were too ambitious to achieve while mortals. <br>

This post has been edited by Kanese S's: 23 May 2011 - 08:25 PM

[Kanese S's]

Rhand, on 23 May 2011 - 06:34 PM, said:

Ever since reading that conversation between Cotillion and the dragons I can think only about one thing: how the hell does a pure dragon SIT on a throne

Er.... maybe it sort of curls around the throne and uses the seat as a head rest? Or something? Or maybe the throne reshapes itself to the form of the... sitter... I guess.

[Bonecaster]

From the last few pages of Chapter 12 of The Bonehunters:

Quote

'Shadowthrone, and I,' he looked up, then half-shrugged, 'our path to ascendancy was through the Houses of the Azath. There were years - a good number of them - in which neither I nor the man who at that time was known as Emperor Kellanved were to be found anywhere within the Malazan empire. For we had begun another quest, a bolder gambit.' Firelight gleamed in his dark eyes. 'We set out to map the Azath. Every House, across this entire realm. We set out to master its power-'

'But that is not possible,' Mappo said. 'You failed - you cannot have done otherwise, else you both would now be far more than gods-'

'True enough, as far as it goes.' He studied the tea in the clay cup nestled in the bowl of his hands. 'Certain realizations came to us, however, earned from hard experience and somewhat unrelenting diligence. The first was this: our quest would demand far more than a single, mortal lifespan. The other realizations - well, perhaps I had best leave those for another night, another time. In any case, in comprehending that such a gambit would enforce upon us demands we could not withstand - not as emperor and master assassin, that is - it proved necessary to make use of what we had learned to date.'

'To make yourselves gods.'

'Yes.'

Here's how it looks to me... They decided to go for something even cooler than the Malazan Empire. Mapping the Azath Houses, and mastering their power. As they were going about this gambit, they realized they couldn't accomplish it as mortal humans. So they used what they had learned so far to become gods, so that they could accomplish it. THIS is what they're up to at all times. We can't see how various things they've done, or had done for them, will advance this gambit. And some things they've done might not be for this end at all.

This post has been edited by Abyss: 29 November 2011 - 03:00 PM
Reason for edit: LATER BOOK SPOILERS REMOVED. BLOCKED MAJOR SPOILERS ARE STILL MAJOR SPOILERS.

[Ben Delat]

Spoiler

It was funny the other night I was laughing at the very end when Cotillion and ST are standing by the hill and C asks which gods still hate them the most, ST "The ones still alive...." I actually lol'd and then got to thinking why all the gods would hate them, some for pure spite based on how they ascended, a few based on which realm they chose and how it wasn't rightful or whatever.....but I am curious as to why all should hate them.

They both seemed to always follow up on their side of the bargain (although ST did make a side ploy for draginpur through Pust) but seem to hold up to their deals with hood, anomander, silchas and even some mortals(although they f with them the most)

Odd and Funny, how half the dang series was =)

Watch the spoilers please~Bubba