[D'rek]

Not to mention that the historical accounts say that Skinner could hold of Dassem for a while. But in RotCG he's fighting Dessembrae, who may be superior to Dassem in swordsmanship, not to mention being able to gesture at objects to destroy them. Likewise Greymane saying he could've beaten Skinner with his magic Burn Sword, well great but that's just another "I could've magicked him but I didn't and lost the swordfight"

[James Hetfield]

I believe everyone is thinking that Skinner is invincible in that armor. Dassem almost killed him in that battle. Sliced his neck open and the reason he wasnt finshed off by Dassem was that he started retreating and 4 other CG helped him retreat. Then summoned the Crippled God's power and escaped through warren.

1st match = tie
2nd match = victory Dassem

We see that all through the book Skinner is very sure of his invincibility. Dragging Cowl around to unsafe places even when Cowl has the brains enough to be afraid. It is possible that he has changed fighting tactics because of his own views of superiority.

Are all the Crimson Guard ascended? If not has Skinner ascended or is he just favored by a couple Gods?

[Harvester]

I don't think any member of the CG has ascended so far. They're just bound by their vow, not unlike the T'lan Imass.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

I'm going to preface this comment by saying I think Dassem would win against anyone in just a sword fight in this series.

But its really not fair to say that Skinner was only able to survive because of his magic armor, because as I recall, Dassem was wielding fricking Vengeance. Seems like an even match between those two invested items...

[TheSurvivor]

I never expected this post to move along so interesting like. Really all I expected was a few people going ahead and stating Skinner as the top gun of the CG. Now things have turned into a Skinner vs. Dassem match. Conversations are so unpredictable.

[MTS]

Well, it's hardly surprising. The Skinner vs. Dassem fight is the only physical evidence we have of Skinner kicking ass, the rest is secondhand information. So you would think it's a great piece of reference material to gauge Skinner's skill. The armour and the fact that Dassem has ascended and is wielding Vengeance makes it a questionable source as to who'd win by their own merits though.

Blues we know less about, but we have a few sources that place him below Skinner. I personally would like to think Blues would win, since he's awesome and Skinner's, you know, a massive dick and all. There's nothing to support that unfortunately, but I think a fight between Blues and Skinner would simply come down to will. They would both have the skill to get behind each other's guard, I think the real difference would come down to who can last the longest. Besides, I seriously doubt there's such a massive disparity between the two (and even the other top-tier Avowed swordsman, like Shimmer, Iron Bars and Jup Alat) that one would win ten times out of ten, so circumstance would definitely play its part.

[Ammanas]

I have no idea whether Skinner has ascended but there is a passage where Shimmer reflects on Skinner's armor. She recalls it's a "gift from Ardata" and she suspects Ardata and Skinner were lovers. True, she has no concrete proof but the relationship seems far deeper than just worshipper to god.

For TCG, I wonder if ST/COT will somehow make use of Mael's separation from Mallick. They should spawn a Super Azath to contain the CG. I just realized I have no clue how this series will end.

[Harvester]

With a huge dance off, of course!

I am especially looking forward to seeing the breakdancing FAs.

[Captain Awesome]

 Ammanas, on 26 July 2010 - 10:48 PM, said:

I have no idea whether Skinner has ascended but there is a passage where Shimmer reflects on Skinner's armor. She recalls it's a "gift from Ardata" and she suspects Ardata and Skinner were lovers. True, she has no concrete proof but the relationship seems far deeper than just worshipper to god.

For TCG, I wonder if ST/COT will somehow make use of Mael's separation from Mallick. They should spawn a Super Azath to contain the CG. I just realized I have no clue how this series will end.

I read this a while ago but the gifted armor was holding off a beating by Dassem wasn't it, even though as stated he was wielding Vengance but it also seemed like Skinner was getting the armor pounded on with little to no affect while D wasn't wearing armor at all or if he was it was nothing but leathers. And Skinner was using the I can't die sword from MT wasn't he? If I remember the description of Skinner's sword it seems like Rhulad's sword so super special swords are a draw plus armor should equal Skinner win if he was as good he/we think he should be but he gets destroyed until he chickens out. And the CG originals are Avowed not Ascended. Either way like it was said earlier D should wipe the floor with anyone in a sword fight. As to Blues vs Skinner if Skinner is the better swordsman remember that Blues is a High Mage isn't he so that would/should balance things out there. Then it's who slips in the mud first loses. IMO

[HoosierDaddy]

No, Skinner most certainly was not using the Crippled God's sword. Have you read Reaper's Gale? If not, best stay out of this forum. If so:

Spoiler

You know Withal shattered it at the forge where he made it.

[Captain Awesome]

 H.D., on 30 July 2010 - 03:43 AM, said:

No, Skinner most certainly was not using the Crippled God's sword. Have you read Reaper's Gale? If not, best stay out of this forum. If so:

Spoiler

You know Withal shattered it at the forge where he made it.

Yes I have but this is also a RotCG so if I didn't why would I stay out of a RotCG forum if you're talking about a RG forum? But also with Skinner going slightly nuts like Rhulad and the mottled, rusted, raw description of the sword when I was reading I went to "oh, wow, seeing how almost anything can happen in this universe I bet another could reforge a crippled and broken sword and look Skinner sucked up to the CG like Tops said he hoped Cowl didn't do" besides read the end of RG, its implied that Withal manned up but if you read that some more there is so much innuendo that it can't be done that...Well this is SE, you sure he brought it down means he broke it?

This post has been edited by Captain Awesome: 30 July 2010 - 03:58 AM

[HoosierDaddy]

Well, we could play the "what-if" game, like that certainly, but the evidence points to a much simpler explanation, yes?

The sword being mottled could be simply because it is poisoned.

Skinner being nuts is tied into being Avowed, and not handling it as well as others (the book takes pain to show that they are no longer really human and some haven't coped well (Cowl got himself Azathed for God's sake)).

Skinner going to the Crippled God could be for several reasons:
(I) the return of K'azz and the rest of the Avowed being alerted to Skinner and Cowl's betrayal of him, which
(II) ties into their being "disAvowed" and thus perhaps losing their semi-ascendancy, which
(III) ties into Skinner possibly not surviving the neck wound he received from Dessembrae, where as an Avowed he would have eventually recovered, which is also tied into
(IV) Dessembrae could have destroyed him there if he didn't get an instant Kallor-like retreat by Warren to the Crippled God who could heal him and over come points II and III.

Edit: the "stay out" part was not meant as a bad thing, it was just in case you had read these in a different order (like read RCG before Reaper's Gale, and this happens), you would have been spoiled to events in Reaper's Gale by the discussions here.

This post has been edited by H.D.: 30 July 2010 - 04:08 AM

[D'rek]

I was under the impression that Skinner and his followers did not have any direct ties with the CG until the RotCG epilogue. Wasn't he surprised to find that the CG had brought them to his realm?

[Veilside]

1. Dassem was "just" Hood's Mortal Sword when he first fought Skinner.
2. Dassem is now a full fledged god, with followers, and a magic sword of badassery. Skinner might well have improved (we don't know, so conjecture is pointless) but he's also got some rather good armour.
3. Skinner still manages to hold off a full fledged god with a magic sword, albeit not for too long.


I definitely think, as mentioned throughout the series, that Skinner is the best swordsman (in terms of killing people, rather than being a "finesse swordsman" a term which, essentially, means bugger all) in the Crimson Guard.

This post has been edited by Veilside: 30 July 2010 - 06:44 PM

[Captain Awesome]

Rhulad- grabs sword to save brothers, dies, comes back in full armor unable to take off unless they fall off, betrays brothers twice, goes insane especially around his "im the emperor, you want to be me" schpeel, only listens to wife and occasionally at best. KO comes along and TKO's him…

Brood and Kallor: you never learn, CG learns from past and upgrades(imo): Sword left on island, CG could get someone to reforge it and upgrade it too, gives to Skinner because now he's almost unhittable and is one of the what maybe 5 best swordsmen alive so you upgrade there too. Skinner betrays brothers twice and ongoing, super armor much more secure than Rhulads coins and he never seems to have helm off or visor up more than maybe twice iirc, goes insane with dreams of empire and is 'something more' with that Queen of his that gave him the armor…

IDK it just seems that there's a lot of parallels between the two that my mind put together, especially the betrayal of close brother(hood) and people they looked up to once they touch a similarly described sword. Timeline wise it might not work out from RG to the RotCG for this to be possible but the 'diseases' sound the same, I just assumed the cause was too.

This post has been edited by Captain Awesome: 30 July 2010 - 08:17 PM

[peaked in highschool osserc]

Go home your drunk Captain Awesome.

[theocean]

What "special Abilities" come with Grief/Vengence... i know the line about someones intentions and what not, but what is the actual power that it has? Also, is Shimmer and her whip swords underappreciated? She seemed to mow through the claws with that thing.

[Abyss]

In HoC we see Andarist generate a wind effect when he uses G/V against the Edur, but he suggests that a 'singular will' is necessary to truly use it, and he does get his ass kicked, albeit by mages, not soldiers. That's really all we know as of RCG. And this is the RCG subforum. Which means no one is going to spoil anything from later books.

Shimmer broke out a serious case of whupass with the whipsword in RCG... she mentioned being the last living master of the style, i think.

[Zeranamu]

Iron Bars in angry mode could probably match Blues, if not Skinner. Skinner got his prowess mostly after the armor and whatnot, iirc. Iron Bars can hold his own, but with him, he has to get emotional. I could be wrong, though. Been a while