[Corporal Blues]

From Dust of Dreams, Bantam hardcover edition page 376

Quick Ben talking to Bottle about Tavore

'Maybe it's her,' mused Quick Ben, 'or more likely it was T'amber. They've sniffed me out, Bottle. They've edged closer that anybody's ever done, and that includes Wiskeyjack.' He paused, frowning. 'Maybe Kallor. Maybe Rake - yes, Rake probably saw clear enough - was it any wonder I avoided him? Well Gothos, sure but --'

Have/when did we see Quick Ben and Gothos meet? Quotes and page numbers would be greatly appreciated.

[Sinisdar Toste]

can't quite recall every scene with QB, but i'm reasonably sure they've never spoken.

gothos is in scenes with fid, apsalar, crokus, rellock, nimander and his band, kallor, killy and mael and scabby, but not QB. if its happened its been out of our sight, or perhaps to one of QB's other souls, back when they had their own body

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 20 July 2010 - 04:24 AM

[worry]

That settles it, he's Grizzin Farl.

[T'renn]

Or a Tiste Andii....... I mean, Magus of Darkness ?

[Silencer]

Doesn't have to be Andii to hold a position in House Dark. Look at Draconus, for example. Elder Gods probably have no trouble taking the appearance of a Tiste anyway...and then think about the fact that a position via reading is not the same thing as position embodiment.

However, aside from the fact that Delat at some point wrote the poem 'Azath', indicating a very solid link with those structures and by extension their 'keeper' Gothos, there was a considerable amount of time between the formation of the BBs and the events of GotM in which h could have met Gothos (remember also Fiddler: "No-one knows Raraku like Quick Ben" or something like that...where is the Azath from DG located? Yeah...) without him being either Andii or Grizzin Farl.

What's more interesting is whether Gothos actually 'puzzled it out' or whether his "Well Gothos, sure" is more akin to him being more open and directly linked to the ancient Jaghut. And Rake...the closest we've got to Rake's knowledge is what Whiskeyjack told him, but this passage suggests the Son of Darkness knew more than what he was told. So there is definitely more to what is being talked about here than his multi-soul nature. Now, if SE has killed Quick off 'for good' in DoD and we don't find out, I will be pissed off...
We also have the fact that this is the guy who was willing to take on (and confident of his ability to, btw) Draconus. :S

[Paran]

Wow, missed that "Azath" poem previously, awesome work. With regards to the quote in the OP, really not sure whether Quick was just name dropping and boasting to deflect, or if it really was uncharacteristic loquaciousness on his part. Kallor called him a "hoarder of souls", and he's known to Hood and Shadowthrone and Cotillion personally... the key's probably in the stuff his sister says about him...

[Tattersail_]

Paran, what does his sister say about him again? I have read the series twice, finishing the last time about 3 months ago, so my memory isn't perfect!! I am going to re read for the 3rd time when the Crippled God comes out.

[The Seguleh 46th]

Add in the fact (well, maybe not fact, but high probability) of his having 12 souls' memories, and the seemingly long shelf life of mages in general, and i don't think it is so hard to fathom that QB has conversed with Gothos offscreen at some point. What i wanna know about him is why his soul is apparently the dominant one, as he was reputedly the youngest and least powerful of the Holy Dude's (Falah'd? Is that the correct term?) cadre. Seems he was hiding details about himself even then.......? Very interesting character!

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 20 July 2010 - 02:27 PM

[The Seguleh 46th]

The Seguleh 46th, on 20 July 2010 - 02:23 PM, said:

Add in the fact (well, maybe not fact, but high probability) of his having 12 souls' memories, and the seemingly long shelf life of mages in general and i don't think it is so hard to fathom that QB has conversed with Gothos offsceen at some point. What i wanna know about him is why his soul is apparently the dominant one, as he was reputedly the youngest and least powerful of the Holy Dude's (Falah'd? Is that the correct term?) cadre. Seems he was hiding details about himself even then.......? Very interesting character!

Gonna correct myself before quote fu cuts me down! I guess i don't recall him being described as "the least powerful", so that was more me blithely assuming being the youngest = least experience = least power. I'm probably very, very wrong there. But still....why is he the (seemingly) alpha mage of the collection? Could it be as simple as the fact that his body is being used as the host/vessel? Or something else? I like it!

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 20 July 2010 - 02:28 PM

[champ]

The Seguleh 46th, on 20 July 2010 - 02:25 PM, said:

The Seguleh 46th, on 20 July 2010 - 02:23 PM, said:

Add in the fact (well, maybe not fact, but high probability) of his having 12 souls' memories, and the seemingly long shelf life of mages in general and i don't think it is so hard to fathom that QB has conversed with Gothos offsceen at some point. What i wanna know about him is why his soul is apparently the dominant one, as he was reputedly the youngest and least powerful of the Holy Dude's (Falah'd? Is that the correct term?) cadre. Seems he was hiding details about himself even then.......? Very interesting character!

Gonna correct myself before quote fu cuts me down! I guess i don't recall him being described as "the least powerful", so that was more me blithely assuming being the youngest = least experience = least power. I'm probably very, very wrong there. But still....why is he the (seemingly) alpha mage of the collection? Could it be as simple as the fact that his body is being used as the host/vessel? Or something else? I like it!

I cant point to any evidence to suggest this but the only reason i can imagine, as you said, it's HIS BODY, he accepted them into him, he was the only in control, the only one truely? to survive.

Currently on a full reread and just started DG, looking forward to this section!

[The Seguleh 46th]

champooon, on 20 July 2010 - 02:38 PM, said:

The Seguleh 46th, on 20 July 2010 - 02:25 PM, said:

The Seguleh 46th, on 20 July 2010 - 02:23 PM, said:

Add in the fact (well, maybe not fact, but high probability) of his having 12 souls' memories, and the seemingly long shelf life of mages in general and i don't think it is so hard to fathom that QB has conversed with Gothos offsceen at some point. What i wanna know about him is why his soul is apparently the dominant one, as he was reputedly the youngest and least powerful of the Holy Dude's (Falah'd? Is that the correct term?) cadre. Seems he was hiding details about himself even then.......? Very interesting character!

Gonna correct myself before quote fu cuts me down! I guess i don't recall him being described as "the least powerful", so that was more me blithely assuming being the youngest = least experience = least power. I'm probably very, very wrong there. But still....why is he the (seemingly) alpha mage of the collection? Could it be as simple as the fact that his body is being used as the host/vessel? Or something else? I like it!

I cant point to any evidence to suggest this but the only reason i can imagine, as you said, it's HIS BODY, he accepted them into him, he was the only in control, the only one truely? to survive.

Currently on a full reread and just started DG, looking forward to this section!

Yeah, i'm rereading MOI right now and came upon the part where WJ is telling Rake the story of Raraku, so that's why it's so fresh in my head.

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 20 July 2010 - 02:43 PM

[T'renn]

Wasn't one of the 12 Souls a Jhag who drove back Dassem a few steps with the blessing of an unknown ascendant ? I mean, if that was another one of Gothos his ofspring......

[The Seguleh 46th]

Imperial High Mage Tayschrenn, on 20 July 2010 - 02:47 PM, said:

Wasn't one of the 12 Souls a Jhag who drove back Dassem a few steps with the blessing of an unknown ascendant ? I mean, if that was another one of Gothos his ofspring......

He did love his Toblakai maidens! Jaghut pimp of his day!

[champ]

Imperial High Mage Tayschrenn, on 20 July 2010 - 02:47 PM, said:

Wasn't one of the 12 Souls a Jhag who drove back Dassem a few steps with the blessing of an unknown ascendant ? I mean, if that was another one of Gothos his ofspring......

now that would be sweet!

he's got to have some bad boy locked up in there, all the more special for gothos to know him off the bat!

[Sinisdar Toste]

the thing about kalam's description of QB in raraku is that he was trying to bullshit WJ, but of course WJ was having none of that. kalam was downplaying his strength right from the very begininning, cuz QB knew that people would notice him.

[Jurble]

I'm telling ya, everyone in the series that hasn't come back as Undead, or was given a scene at Hood's Gate - Quick Ben's stolen their souls. The dudes just full of them now.

Either that or at some point, he seduced Mother Dark with his fingers. He's her current Consort, and she gave him the title Magus when she returned from her self-imposed exile.

[buddhacat]

The Seguleh 46th, on 20 July 2010 - 02:25 PM, said:

The Seguleh 46th, on 20 July 2010 - 02:23 PM, said:

Add in the fact (well, maybe not fact, but high probability) of his having 12 souls' memories, and the seemingly long shelf life of mages in general and i don't think it is so hard to fathom that QB has conversed with Gothos offsceen at some point. What i wanna know about him is why his soul is apparently the dominant one, as he was reputedly the youngest and least powerful of the Holy Dude's (Falah'd? Is that the correct term?) cadre. Seems he was hiding details about himself even then.......? Very interesting character!

Gonna correct myself before quote fu cuts me down! I guess i don't recall him being described as "the least powerful", so that was more me blithely assuming being the youngest = least experience = least power. I'm probably very, very wrong there. But still....why is he the (seemingly) alpha mage of the collection? Could it be as simple as the fact that his body is being used as the host/vessel? Or something else? I like it!

They played "Survivor: Raraku" and everyone else got voted off.

[The Seguleh 46th]

Sinisdar Toste, on 20 July 2010 - 06:05 PM, said:

the thing about kalam's description of QB in raraku is that he was trying to bullshit WJ, but of course WJ was having none of that. kalam was downplaying his strength right from the very begininning, cuz QB knew that people would notice him.

I agree completely. Still wonder though what exactly he was trying to BS about. The mere fact of Kalam and QB trying to simply defeat this ragged band of Malazan soldiers through deception, the 11 souls (besides his own) that reside within him now, or that he is just that badass, even before the soul-devouring? Realistically its probably a bit of all of the above, but the fanboy in me wants to say the latter!

[Gothos]

Wasn't Gothos' "folly" (not meaning the book directly) was that he knew pretty much everything there is to know, and it still did him no good at all?

[Hetan]

Regarding QB - don't forget he's also fooled Tayschrenn before :-

“Do you recall, High Mage, a certain other High Mage, sent by the Empress, early on in the Blackdog Campaign? Kribalah Rule?”
“Rule the Rude? Yes, he died after a month or so --”
“In a horrible conflagration, aye. Well, that was me. Thus, I’ve been a High Mage before, colleague….”