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Nationalism celebrating our cultures

#21 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 11:49 PM

View PostObdigore, on 12 July 2010 - 12:49 PM, said:

As you can see from Terez's post, people assume the Midwest, which we are technically part of, are behind the times in technology and literacy, when in fact, we (At least my area Minneapolis) are the leaders and are the home to some of the most successfull US Corporations, such as Target or 3M.

We know that, but there are vast expanses of farmland in the Midwest where those things don't really help much. The Northeast and the West tend to be better about having up-to-date technology even in the rural areas. I didn't mention the non-Pacific West because I'm not so sure the Deep South is behind those guys.

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#22 User is offline   Bestemoor 

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 04:30 AM

Great thread and a great read:)

I`m from Norway, so most of what the dane said applies to us as well (As we were in a union for 400 years, and one country for almost 200 of those).

That beeing said we have our quorks and the formost of them is perhaps our unwavering belief in our own uniqueness.

You`ll find the same in other countries who developed their national identity in the 19th century I guess, but still.
We are our own masters and our own deliverers.
We are not part of the EU, forming the economic powerhouse-organization EFTA with Liechtenstein and eh..I dont recall, but some similar entity.
We have oil. As a consquence, we do not have to remember that the german occupation or the marshall aid following WW2 was crucial for our bettering economic situatsion.
We play a boring brand of soccer, and is referred to by the danes as "the mountain monkeys".
We revel in the fact that we are the best skiiers and that we are totally awesome in sports no one else cares about.

We have a king with somewhat of a lazy lip. Monarchs tend to look and talk strange..perhaps this is the Habsburg legacy?



If one should summarize we are extremely similar to the swedes and danes. We have the sociodemocratic tradition of sweden, and the provensialism towards immigration we share with the danes.

The only thing about us that is truly special is our ability to not take to heart any derogatory comments or spiteful jokes about us, as we can not here these over our barrels of oil.

Cheers
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#23 User is offline   maro 

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 07:17 AM

View PostTerez, on 12 July 2010 - 04:50 AM, said:

View Postmaro, on 12 July 2010 - 01:12 AM, said:

As Fantasy (And presumably Sci Fi) Fans, I find it weird to be so nationalistic.

I only Follow England in Rugby.

I'm more down with being a Global Citizen - I've lived in both Hemispheres and will hopefully live on more continents over time.

I aim to experience as much as I can from different cultures.

We all do. This is not about one country being better than another; this is about making the little dots on the map become real places with real people in them that we know (which, as a fantasy fan, you should understand :p). I don't think it's an accident that none of the English have posted until you, and that only you and the Americans have said anything about nationalism being 'weird'. I am reminded of a map that Brood posted once. I think he made it himself. It was a map of the world, with England in the center, and arrows pointing to about half the rest of the countries in the world saying 'USED TO OWN THESE BITS'. :)


Actually, I think most of the British posters know how the thread will pan out.

I haven't seen that map - most memes I've seen have the USA map in the pre-eminent position

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#24 User is offline   Gothos 

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 09:02 AM

Allrighty, so I've been circling this topic like the young Ay in MoI circled the peat trap, but it's time to enter it.

So, Poland. We're a nation of 38 million with something like over 20 million living abroad. The polish state has been founded by duke Mieszko in the second half of the 10th century, consequently christianised. At the start we were buddies with the HRE, but after Otto III's death it started going to hell - the next 20 years saw 3 wars between us. In 1025 we became a kingdom.
The early history of Poland is a history of attempts at expansion and sometimes raiding neighbours. We've had our own secession peroid when one of our kings decided to divide the country between his 7 sons. Way to go, dumbass. Miraculously enough, nobody conquered us in that time. The time when Poland started rising to power is Casimir the Great's rule in the 14th century. Even though the king died without an heir and a new dynasty started (we imported a king from Lithuania, go us), our rise to power continued. We've had heavy feuds with the Teutonic Order, which is regarded as something between demons and manic rapists to this day. Our common struggle against the Order brought us together with Lithuania, a relationship that would define both of our nations' histories for centuries to come. The Golden Age came under the rule of Sigismund the Old, and his son after him, Sigismund August, who was quite possibly systematically poisoned by the queen imported from Italy, Bona, all over succession for HER child instead of his previous kid. Suffice to say, the dynasty ended, and it went downhill from there.
History of Poland, and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, is a history of dwinlindg central power, growing anarchy and weak diplomatics. Since the next kings were elected by the nobles, they ceded more and more power to them to buy their votes (something that started with the start of the second, Jagiellon, dynasty). In the 17th century we fought Russians, Turks, Cossacks and Swedes in several wars that completely devastated us. Even though we did hold Moscow for 2 years, even though we beat them Turks at Vienna (something we get very agitated about when westerners say that austrians won it), eventually the growing inability of kings to enforce anything, dwindling resources and archaic social structure and no technological progress to speak of led to disaster. Countries that rose to power around us as we waned - Russia, Prussia and Austria - decided to divide the barely breathing body of ours and make us disappear for 123 years.
Well, they would if they could. What our own country couldn't do, repression did - there was plenty resistance all around. Over these 123 years we've had 5+ major uprisings (amusingly enough, those that succeeded are the least known and revered - should tell you a lot about my people). Attempts at erasing our national identity (prohibition of using the polish language in public, prohibition of teaching polish history, that kind of thing) only strengthened it.
We got our independance back in 1918. The second republic struggled all around to maintain it's existance and expand it's borders to former lands in the east. We've stopped the soviet onslaught in 1920, effectively halting their progress to bring communism to all of Europe. The country was struggling with everything - baring the lack of infrastructure, you had differences between the three occupants clashing - different rail width, differently organised traffic, currencies, etc - three completely different administrative systems had to be unified. And then the 3rd Reich came around and kicked us back into stone age. Not going into WW2 much (the brutality of our occupants is pretty well known methinks), we came under the influence of the Soviet Union (or, how others would say, Churchill and FDR sold us out at Yalta). From there it's the usual for central Europe - commie state, heavy propaganda nad repression, lightening of the mood after Stalin's death, generally not going ALL that bad until the 80s, collapse, revolution. We came into the capitalistic world, and year after year the people started to see that it wasn't like flipping a switch that would instantly make us rich. The last 20 years is a time of trying to catch up to the west.

What we get from our history is:
- animosity towards Germans
- animosity towards Russians
- cold feelings from Lithuanians
- a sense of entitlement for once being a major power
- cult of martyrs

Poland is, for european standards, a mostly rural country. The capital, Warsaw, is something like Manhattan - high prices, high salaries and everyone's in a rush. There are several other major cities that follow it, but not to such an extent. Each large city has a climate of it's own, there's some differences here and there that set them apart. Generally speaking, the population is split four ways politically - liberals following the current coalition leaders, the Civic Platform (who are really just conservatives), the nationalistic traditionalists following the conservative Law and Justice (who are just facist socialists), the Imperial Remnant of the People's Republic, the socialists (who are surprisingly openminded to progress and the west) following Democratic Leftwing Alliance, and the largest part of them all - people who just don't give a shit and see all of these guys as different faces of the same evil and think they can hardly change anything by voting and just go on about their lives. Generally speaking, democracy has had limited success here, seeing how the people just don't care anymore. It's probably the politicians' fault.
The country is split geographically - you've got the more modern, liberal, cosmopolitan northwest: Silesia, Pomerania, Greater Poland, Kuyavia and Warsaw; then you've got the more traditional, fundie southeast. We don't get along all that well.

Some of you might recall that we've lost the previous president to a plane crash back in April. As was expected from the high culture of politics in this country, the even has been used in populistic attempts to sway voters in the resulting election. It has to be said that it seems like the only kind of politics our leaders can do is saying bad stuff about each other, instead of proposing good changes and concepts.
Poland lacks a leader figure that could make the massess care. We lack a Vladimir Putin type guy here (I really envy them Russians on that).
What else is there to say... we like to drink. We're generally welcoming to foreigners. We've had several important people in the history of the world (Kopernik, Chopin, Skłodowska-Curie, Jan Paweł II, Kościuszko, Pułaski).
You face a Pole with a simple problem, you're gonna see procrastination and fuckups. Face him with a hard problem and he'll perform better than most.
Also, our females possess superior mammaries.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.
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#25 User is offline   Cougar 

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 10:54 AM

I'm English, or maybe more acurately, British (my mother is a Scot). Interestingly about England, for what amounts to a pretty large country in terms of population, you won't find many people who can trace back 4 English grandparents and even less who would say they were entirely English. There are some, but most of us have in some part decended from the diaspora of our former colonies, near neighbours and occupied territories (yes Wales, this means you, you aren't a principality). The reason I've begun with this is because, in relation to nationalism it makes something of a mockery of the idea of Anglo-Saxon heritage, Celticism, indigenous populations etc., concepts which cloud the realtions of the population of the British Isles (in case you need telling thats England, the Irish Free State, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Isle of Man, Jersey, Gurnsey and a host of other tiny shitholes) and make rational debate difficult, even before you consider the sectarian divide in Ireland. The strength of the British, less so the English as a nation, not as a race (as this is utterly fatuous) is the fact that we have had a constant influx of, and therefore influence from, immigrant populations and still do. I believe this perhaps as strongly as I believe anything.

I'm from the North, specifically Lancashire, which traditionally contains Manchester and Liverpool (one of the things about Britain is that for some mysterious reason we are always changing administrative regions to make life 'easier', which makes things a bit confusing at times), but I'm from about 10 miles north of Manchester city centre. One of the things I love more about Britain than anywhere else is the sheer diversity of our accents and demeanours and the banter between people from the North and South, from the regions and the other countries of the union. I always forget that the Irish Free Staters aren't part of the union anymore (unforgiveable since I'm an academic historian!) and although we can have a somewhat fractious realationship with each other , the greatest pleasure of living in an old country is the sheer depth of the history we share. The North is primarily very hilly (check out the Pennines) it's wet as fuck and it's a kind of grim landscape that I love. I suppose people would argue that the character of the land defines the characters of the people of Lancashire and Yorkshire, who although it might be said quietly (the Yorkists are our enemies of old, see the War of the Roses for details), are actually rather similar. We are primarily plain speaking, a little abrupt, can be somewhat unsophisticated, bordering on offensive to those of a more polite disposition (North Americans find this difficult I've observed), and I suppose we are kind of miserable to the outside world to whom the people can seem a little grim. I've heard it said that we display many phenotypical characterisitcs of the Norse as we were settled by them in the dim and distant, but I'd question this since the Normans carried out a fairly systematic genocide in the North in the years following 1066. We don't like Southerners, they are seen as soft and fruity and arrogant. They in turn, would say we are miserable and stupid.

As to the position of my country in the world well, it's hard to say sometimes. I think we've really benefitted from the fact that we used to own quite a lot of the useful bits of the planet and although we are very certainly declining as a world power (realistically you could argue have been since 1918 or before), we are still very much, given a global perspective, a pretty big player. To give it some perspective, although the sheer size of our military power is nothing like the 'States, Russia or China, we are still expected to contribute signifcantly to both UN and Nato operations and still contribute vastly to the EU despite our status as a grumpy partner. This brings me to my next point: the EU. One the most irritating aspects of British culture has been our steady refusal to get into bed with the EU. We should have gone into the Euro on day one, since we will not survive on our own and could have helped maintain the Euro too. Even though it may have been financially undesirable in some respects, the politcal currency gained would have been immense, yet we didn't and the rest of the EU still regards us as a difficult partner.

The primary reason for this would be xenephobia, and given what I said about our ambiguous ethnicity at the start, it's baffling. The number of people who will, as a matter of course, spout things like "why did my grandad fight in the war so we could be ruled by the fucking Krauts (Germans)" and will sing "No surrender to the IRA"(you can't surrender you pricks, the British never formally accepted a decleration of war from the IRA) at England matches is irritating as hell. The population of this country are too a man, thick as fuck, they have no idea about politics and I'd happily deprive 90% of them of their vote as I'm convinced you'd get a far more rational type of politics.

There's more I could say, I love being Lancastrian, English, British. I love the British Isles (really sorry about the potato famine, pretty sure it was idiotic negligence more than anything) and I love being a European, the problem is the British often struggle with the layers of their nationality and identity and you get a confusing mish mash and some fucking strange ideas. I wouldn't be anything else other than what I am and whilst I'd never say I have pride in my country as I think it sounds odd, I do love it and that means I can see it's flaws and slag it off too.

I'd leave a story that perfectly illustrates my country to you all: a few weeks ago I was watching England vs Algeria in the soccer (see I'm being culturally sensitive) I was with 2 people from the Irish Free State, a guy from Northern Ireland, 3 English people and a half US/English guy. Good evening had by all. Paddy, who was born in England, raised in England, but has an Irish passport and Irish parents illustrates the conflict at the heart of being from these Isles. Whilst the Northern Irish person, Barry and Kat, who is from Ireland and born there, saw no conflict in supporting England, the country in which they live regardless of any history or republican sympathies they have, Paddy was cheering for Algeria - illustrating his complex need to be ultra-Irish cos he isn't actually Irish. Then later, since England had drawn (and it felt like a defeat) I walked the 2 people with non-English accents to their door because we were afraid that the simmering undercurrent of violent anger after the game might be vented against anyone obviously not English. That's Britain, in a nutshell to me.
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#26 User is offline   Battalion 

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 02:34 PM

The Sun Never Sets On The British Empire.

(Until after the war, then it gets very dark).

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#27 User is offline   Bauchelain the Evil 

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 02:39 PM

Pity that the first to say that was Charles I of Spain, subsequently Charles V of the Holy Roman Empire.
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Posted 15 July 2010 - 10:18 AM

I think Terez has tried to create a very interesting thread here so can we keep it free from even mild bickering. If you'd like to take issue with a point in someone's post or seek clarification, I don't see the point in deviating into another tiresome set of the same arguments and sillyness we already have elsewhere.
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#29 User is offline   Soulessdreamer 

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 10:35 AM

I was born and live in Auckland, New Zealand.

Yes where LotRs was filmed.

Called Aoteoroa (Land of the Long White Cloud) in the language of the first known settlers who arrived approx 500 years ago. NZ was the last and largest of the pacific islands to be discovered.

It has a land area greater than the UK spread over 3 main islands.

The North Island, the northern most island and according to legand a fish caught by Maui a local demi god.
The South Island, the middle and biggest island and the canoe or waka Maui used.
And Stewart Island, the southern most and smallest island is the anchor stone.

Seperated from the rest of the world mellenia ago NZ has no natural mammals so instead birds evolved to fill the niches and are concequently being decimated by imported pedators.

NZ is a member of the British comonwealth with an inderpendant parliment elected under the MMP system was the first nation to give women the vote and has been nuclear free for the last 25ish years. Including stopping visits from allied nuclear powered and armed vessels.

NZ has a population of over 4 million though many more kiwi's (the local slang term for NZers) living overseas. The third lagest concentration of kiwis is on the gold coast os Austrailia. (also known as humorously as the west island).

Auckland at 1.4 million people is the largest city in the south pacific. It sits atop a fualt line and volcano feild stradling the ithimus of two harbours.

Aucklanders or JAFAs are the butt of jokes and derision by many, seen as elitest snobs who think the country stops at the bombay hills just south of the city. Aucklanders like a laugh and are quite happy to dish it out as well as take it and rarely take it seriously.

Being such a small first world nation (in most respects) NZ has national bodies in most areas, firefighters, ambulance, police, public works etc.

Kiwis like to think we can hang with the big boys and are determined to do our part. This has seen us get our noses bloodied fighting above our wieght in both war and sports which far from detering us pushes us to do more and go further. Not that we haven't had successes.

We have a sibling love hate relationship with Australia.

Um maybe more to follow.....

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#30 User is offline   cerveza_fiesta 

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 04:45 PM

Quote

The North Island, the northern most island and according to legand a fish caught by Maui a local demi god.
The South Island, the middle and biggest island and the canoe or waka Maui used.
And Stewart Island, the southern most and smallest island is the anchor stone.


huh...thought there were only 2 worthy of mention

*goes to google earth*

I like this thread a lot.
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BEERS!

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#31 User is offline   Gothos 

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 05:09 PM

View Postcerveza_fiesta, on 15 July 2010 - 04:45 PM, said:

I like this thread a lot.


Oh

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This post has been edited by Gothos: 15 July 2010 - 05:28 PM

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.
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#32 User is offline   Cold Iron 

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 12:08 AM

View PostGothos, on 14 July 2010 - 09:02 AM, said:

We've had several important people in the history of the world (Kopernik, Chopin, Skłodowska-Curie, Jan Paweł II, Kościuszko, Pułaski).

Interestingly Australia's highest mountain is Mount Kosciuszko,

Quote

It was named by the Polish explorer Count Paul Edmund Strzelecki in 1840, in honour of the Polish-Lithuanian national hero and hero of the American Revolutionary War General Tadeusz Kościuszko, because of its perceived resemblance to the Kościuszko Mound in Krakow.[2]


View PostGothos, on 14 July 2010 - 09:02 AM, said:

Also, our females possess superior mammaries.

Sigh.

This post has been edited by Cold Iron: 19 July 2010 - 12:08 AM

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#33 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 12:38 AM

But even their nipples have mustaches.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#34 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 06:31 AM

View PostCold Iron, on 19 July 2010 - 12:08 AM, said:

View PostGothos, on 14 July 2010 - 09:02 AM, said:

We've had several important people in the history of the world (Kopernik, Chopin, Skłodowska-Curie, Jan Paweł II, Kościuszko, Pułaski).

Interestingly Australia's highest mountain is Mount Kosciuszko,

Quote

It was named by the Polish explorer Count Paul Edmund Strzelecki in 1840, in honour of the Polish-Lithuanian national hero and hero of the American Revolutionary War General Tadeusz Kościuszko, because of its perceived resemblance to the Kościuszko Mound in Krakow.[2]

There is a town called Kosciuszko in Mississippi, but I always figured it was an Indian name.

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#35 User is offline   MTS 

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 07:31 AM

View PostTerez, on 19 July 2010 - 06:31 AM, said:

View PostCold Iron, on 19 July 2010 - 12:08 AM, said:

View PostGothos, on 14 July 2010 - 09:02 AM, said:

We've had several important people in the history of the world (Kopernik, Chopin, Skłodowska-Curie, Jan Paweł II, Kościuszko, Pułaski).

Interestingly Australia's highest mountain is Mount Kosciuszko,

Quote

It was named by the Polish explorer Count Paul Edmund Strzelecki in 1840, in honour of the Polish-Lithuanian national hero and hero of the American Revolutionary War General Tadeusz Kościuszko, because of its perceived resemblance to the Kościuszko Mound in Krakow.[2]

There is a town called Kosciuszko in Mississippi, but I always figured it was an Indian name.

No, Kosciuszko is definitely a Polish name. The 'sz' sounds always clue me in. :(
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#36 User is offline   Gothos 

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 07:40 AM

View PostTerez, on 19 July 2010 - 06:31 AM, said:

View PostCold Iron, on 19 July 2010 - 12:08 AM, said:

View PostGothos, on 14 July 2010 - 09:02 AM, said:

We've had several important people in the history of the world (Kopernik, Chopin, Skłodowska-Curie, Jan Paweł II, Kościuszko, Pułaski).

Interestingly Australia's highest mountain is Mount Kosciuszko,

Quote

It was named by the Polish explorer Count Paul Edmund Strzelecki in 1840, in honour of the Polish-Lithuanian national hero and hero of the American Revolutionary War General Tadeusz Kościuszko, because of its perceived resemblance to the Kościuszko Mound in Krakow.[2]

There is a town called Kosciuszko in Mississippi, but I always figured it was an Indian name.


I'm sensing dry humour!
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.
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#37 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 08:14 AM

View PostMTS, on 19 July 2010 - 07:31 AM, said:

Kosciuszko is definitely a Polish name. The 'sz' sounds always clue me in. :(

Maybe American linguistic laziness is even worse than Australian. :) I always associated the native languages with seemingly-excess letters as a child, probably because of the Tchoutacabouffa River in Biloxi (pronounced CHEW-tuh-kuh-Buff), especially for local names.

A lot of us in south MS have native American descent, but not in a way that ties us to the reservations in any way for the most part. Our descent is mostly French and African, with the Caucasian population actually mostly being an unidentifiable mix, but we kept a lot of the natives' names for things...it's pretty easy to recognize the French stuff, especially in Louisiana, and in Biloxi where the street names are all Reynoir and Caillavet (I dunno if I even spelled that right), the local Mirage casino branch is called Beau Rivage, and even Jefferson Davis's estate is called Beauvoir, though there's not much left of it after Katrina.

For those who don't know, Jefferson Davis was the only president of the Confederacy, and his Biloxi estate on the beach is a museum, and a Confederate memorial type thing; my great-grandma was the president of the United Daughters of the Confederacy at one point, and I got a (small) scholarship from them at one point because she was paying my dues. There were also the Children of the Confederacy and the Sons of Confederate Veterans. To be a member of any of the three, you had to establish that at least one of your ancestors was a veteran of the Civil War. I remember my grandma telling me when I was a kid how there were a few black people who had joined because their ancestors had been consigned into the war. I don't remember the context of the conversation - my grandma was born in 1905, and though she was a good-hearted woman, she was definitely of the almost-incurably racist generation of White America, but she might have mentioned it because she was proud of that fact in her own way, because it helped to give legitimacy to the cause of the South, which will of course one day rise again. I'm sure that the black folks in question joined because they had the right, and they didn't like the idea of all-white organizations dedicated to reminiscing over the good ol' days when the slaves still knew their place.

This post has been edited by Terez: 19 July 2010 - 08:17 AM

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#38 User is offline   HoosierDaddy 

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 08:16 AM

There is a Kosckioscko county in Indiana, it's actually famous for it's lakes here.

Edit: Kosciusko County9

This post has been edited by H.D.: 19 July 2010 - 08:28 AM

Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
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#39 User is offline   Ain't_It_Just_ 

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 08:54 AM

I was born in Victoria, Australia, and I am still here.
Suck it Errant!


"It's time to kick ass and chew bubblegum...and I'm all out of gum."

QUOTE (KeithF @ Jun 30 2009, 09:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt that the most powerful force on Wu is a bunch of messed-up Malazans with Moranth munitions.


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#40 User is offline   Lousy 

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 09:09 AM

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