[Mark the Younger]

I am sure that this has already been said, but I am not going to troll thousands of threads to look for a beaten horse, so if I am being redundant be gentle.

Has anyone else noticed that the dead are the true bada$$es in this series? Now the T'lan were impressive at first, but face it, they basically operate on a system similar to a conscript charge. Granted they are really awesome warriors individually, but conscript charge none the less. Looking at the individuals though: Toc, Hedge, random Seguleh (I can't think of his rank off the top of my head, first or second?) My point is the "super heroes" all seem to be dead. Am I just out in left field? I don't know. For me though, the more poignant moments include the dead. Thoughts and input?

[D'rek]

Well non-badasses who die tend to just be dead and not do much. But the badasses on the other hand when they die Hood or someone else tends to be like "You're so badass, I've got a use for you." and lo-and-behold they get to run around beind undead badasses. Most of them were just as badass in life, though.

[worry]

I hope Baudin makes an appearance and beats some people up.

[NikitaDarkstar]

Well considering how many undeads there are, some of them has to be badass... and some badasses will end up undead. (T'lan Imass, Jaghut, K'Cain Che'Malle, Toc, Bonehunters, Hedge, that seguleh, T'lan Ay, Shurq Elalle etc. etc.) But honestly to me the real question here is where to draw the line between undead, dead and back from the dead. I mean Hedge obviously was dead, but he's now breathing, has a pulse, seems more insane than before (if thats even possible.) and seems generally alive. He's not a rotting, walking corpse, so I'd say he's pretty much alive.

The T'lan Imass never even went to Hoods realm (or whatever god of death there was at the time.) So they're pretty safely in the undead area along with a certain pirate.

But the Bridgeburners and Toc. Toc is Hoods Herald and the Bridgeburners are still stuck in Hoods realm (well theirs now I suppose..?), they look like undead (sad but true..) but I'm inclined to still want to call them just dead plain and simple. Or do the dead become undead just by leaving Hoods realm? It might not even matter, but this has actually bothered me for a while. (Is there any difference between dead and undead more than where they happen to be...)

[Mark the Younger]

NikitaDarkstar, on 27 June 2010 - 12:14 AM, said:

Well considering how many undeads there are, some of them has to be badass... and some badasses will end up undead. (T'lan Imass, Jaghut, K'Cain Che'Malle, Toc, Bonehunters, Hedge, that seguleh, T'lan Ay, Shurq Elalle etc. etc.) But honestly to me the real question here is where to draw the line between undead, dead and back from the dead. I mean Hedge obviously was dead, but he's now breathing, has a pulse, seems more insane than before (if thats even possible.) and seems generally alive. He's not a rotting, walking corpse, so I'd say he's pretty much alive.

The T'lan Imass never even went to Hoods realm (or whatever god of death there was at the time.) So they're pretty safely in the undead area along with a certain pirate.

But the Bridgeburners and Toc. Toc is Hoods Herald and the Bridgeburners are still stuck in Hoods realm (well theirs now I suppose..?), they look like undead (sad but true..) but I'm inclined to still want to call them just dead plain and simple. Or do the dead become undead just by leaving Hoods realm? It might not even matter, but this has actually bothered me for a while. (Is there any difference between dead and undead more than where they happen to be...)

The catch 22 with any of the Bridgeburners is that they ascended. Toc being the Herald Death, I think that makes him a lesser god. In life he wasn't very badass, he just had a whole lot of heart. The Bridgeburners seem to be serving their own ends now, despite being in charge of Hood's realm (which should be fairly empty after the battle in Dragnipur. I think the difference between dead and undead lies strictly in whether or not you have passed through hoods gate. Lastly just so I covered every major personage, Hedge and Brys fall into the returned to life category. However it was explained that when you come back like that, you usually stop fighting because life seems like such a bitter and pointless farce. Moreso in reference to Brys, but I think thats where I stand.

[Mark the Younger]

D, on 25 June 2010 - 08:15 PM, said:

Well non-badasses who die tend to just be dead and not do much. But the badasses on the other hand when they die Hood or someone else tends to be like "You're so badass, I've got a use for you." and lo-and-behold they get to run around beind undead badasses. Most of them were just as badass in life, though.

I thought Cartographer was a fairly awesome supporting Character

[worry]

Toc is more than just heart! Sure in MOI he's hanging out with a goddess, three Seguleh, and the T'lan Imass First Sword so he was relatively outmatched, but the amount of pain he took without going totally insane (on more than one occasion), his skill with a bow is top rank, and he showed plenty of martial prowess alongside the Awl (more than they showed, even). If you're saying he's brave, I agree with you, and he's certainly a mortal man without any perks, but in that context he definitely ranks among the most awesome. He's just a little humble about it.

[Ulrik]

I think that Toc would trade his dead badassness for quiet, calm life...or death without painful experience from RG...DoD...and Im not talking about physical pain.




And IMO he was pretty badass already as mortal. Bridgeburner, almost Claw (iirc GotM)...yeah, thats pretty baddass itself. He was just...in shadow of extreme persons.

[NikitaDarkstar]

Umm Ulrik, Toc wasn't a Bridgeburner. But yhea I agree that he most likely would trade the whole 'dead and badass' for some peace and quiet.

[Ulrik]

Yep, "only" 2nd Army (his whole anabasis made me think that he chase BBs...in GotM, MoI, TtH), but still...and Claw. He is badass:)

Ah and subsequently Mortal Sword...OK, that was one death already, that doesnt count:)