[D'riss]

Got lots of work to finish before i can really get into looking back at the thread agai.
But will be checking in as i work.

once thats done...in like 4-5 hours, you get my full attention.




Im probably alone again like yesterday anyways...

[Path-Shaper]

Well, I'm here, on and off. Just been out to vote. I was pissed off when they told me I couldn't vote for Obama.

[D'riss]

Path-Shaper, on 06 May 2010 - 09:24 AM, said:

Well, I'm here, on and off. Just been out to vote. I was pissed off when they told me I couldn't vote for Obama.

So...who are your suspects?

[Path-Shaper]

Probably Palin. This is the kind of shit she would pull.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 7 hours remain.

9 players are alive
Ampelas,D'riss,Fener,Galain,Hood's Path,Korbas,Liosan,Mockra,Osseric

5 votes to lynch. 5 votes to go to night.

1 vote D'riss (Hood's Path)
2 votes Korbas (Ampelas, Osseric)
2 votes Hood's Path (Galain, Korbas)

Not voted
D'riss,Fener,Liosan,Mockra

[Mockra]

D, on 06 May 2010 - 08:59 AM, said:

Wow HP
Not only is your case on myself Meta (bad form), but its also got a huge wallop of WIFOM to boot....and....well... nothing else.
Yet you seem quite sure?
Im thinking to myself...should an inno really be making cases on someone and push lynches based solely on those types of arguments?
I would not. So how are you not questioning yourself HP?
A Wifom/meta case?...well done sir.

So D'riss you are allowed to use the same logic Hood's Path is using to attack Hood's Paht himself.Nice

Quote

Now...Even if you are inno and feel vilified in your stance and you feel a killer was not online etc. etc. You then completely exonerate Korbas?
With seriously shitty reasoning, youve given him the "A OK"?... Just like that?... Not a second glance?
But nooo, D'riss must be looked at HARD.
D'riss...the person who tried to get you lynched yesterday....how convenient.
So now its not only Wifom and meta, its also OMGUS...bloody well done, a trifecta

Quick to point out WIFOM, quick to use WIFOM to make arguements. Moving on.

Quote

Never mind that you completely ignore the fact that the lynch was VERY rushed and there is a good chance the killers were not quick enough to even consider sending in an amended PM to PS?
My guess is that this is a 'two killer share a kill' game and that means the killers would have both had to have come to the same conclusion (first discuss it) and then both send in a PM.
Was there enough time?...did they even think about it?
I highly doubt it.
The real heat was only really applied on barghast right after the lynch anyways.
Plus you completely overlook the fact that a few people that where indeed online at the time, didnt even seem to have read the thread and just asked you guys who to vote for *cough* Mockra & fener *cough* because time was so short and they had "RL issues"!!.
Mockra and Fener both admitted they got caught up in RL and Mockra even asked who to vote for!....but lets completely ignore THAT!

Funny, I've asked people to speculate the setup with me so we can get a close to accurate D-Day, yet it was completely ignored, but D'riss comes strolling in here, jst to throw some piece of information to back up the agruement that's used.But hey, lets bring more WIFOM here since obviously we don't have enough , because that reasoning will clear your name up, since you weren't online at the time of the lynch.
As far as the RL thing, yea, god forbit something happens to people and can't spend 24/7 refreshing the thread to answer. At least I WAS online, in comparisson to other people- I DIDN'T ask who to vote, I had other suspects in mind- I could have just as easily voted for one of them a couple hours ago and entirely leave the thread- Yea, that would have been helpfull for us to get a lynch..

Quote

HP...im quite convinced however that you are not a killer.
I think that if you are scum...then you are playing classic symp play. And if you are inno you are jumping at shadows and not really thinking things through enough.
Then there is your continuous talk of your own CF coming up inno which stinks to me of someone that really wants to drill that point home. But why?...to what ends?
You are VERY aware of your CF being inno and you REALY want people to pay attention to that fact once you become worm food.
And I dont see why any inno would care to point that out as much as you have.

This post is such a classic!!! especially the underlined part...hahaha

Hood, on 05 May 2010 - 07:46 PM, said:

I once got lynched in a game as a townie and the ENTIRE rest of the game had people trying to debate whether or not I was a member of the town or the scum. The scum theory was so prevalent, the real scum got away with it and won.

I was merely trying to stave that kind of nonsense off, but as usual, my comments get put under an electron microscope.

For the record, I was fully prepared to vote myself off to avoid a stalled lynch if that came to pass.

And the academy goes to...


Anyways....
So, with all this in mind.
Im thinking one or even two of Mockra and fener are the possible killers.
Fener has been very below radar while mockra has been ringin bells for me all game.
The Oh so sharp HP who doesnt miss the slightest thing...completely ignores these two.

And ill throw Korbas in there because you "PI'd" the fucking guy....I mean REALLY?
I am not sure what to make of that as i highly doubt a symp would PI his master.
But then again HP went through great pains to make us very aware of what his CF will be.

Another one is Osseric

Osseric, on 05 May 2010 - 05:34 PM, said:

lol... thanks Killers...

Why in the Hell would they Kill Barghast?

That leads me to believe that he was a predestined kill and that 1 or both of the Killers weren't around at Lynch time.

this makes me think he was well aware that he could not get his kill changed, perhaps a partner was not online.
Perhaps he simply thought about it too late.
But he WAS thinking about it.
It happens allot that a killer will say exaclty what happned behind the scenes as a ploy to look helpfull/innocent and maybe twist it suite his needs.
In this case, make the people who where not online look guilty.


So there it is ...ive caught up

I think we can find the scum in Fener, mockra, Osseric...and perhaps Korbas.
With HP as a possible symp.



IF i had to pick one....i would probably have to go for Mockra.

Underlined/Italics part.
Let's try to use the 'both killers online' WIFOM to build a case on someone else, and now let's try to turn the tables around so we can pressure someone else with a faultless logic.
Way to go contradicting yourself.
An entire post based on the logic of killers not being able to change their NAs , yet hey let's bring that into the arguement now, it obviously suits us.

[D'riss]

Mockra do you even know what WIFOM is?

[Mockra]

For me, its Wife In Front Of Me, such a powerfull arguement, I can't do anything but back down from it.

This is Ground Zero once again.
There's no way to be sure killers were online.
There's no way to be sure killers weren't online.

Follow one and be wrong, we can lose the game.
Follow the other and be wrong, we can lose the game.

[D'riss]

Sorry but im pushed for time at the moment and i just replied in blue.
I know some of you hate it.

Mockra, on 06 May 2010 - 11:19 AM, said:

D, on 06 May 2010 - 08:59 AM, said:

Wow HP
Not only is your case on myself Meta (bad form), but its also got a huge wallop of WIFOM to boot....and....well... nothing else.
Yet you seem quite sure?
Im thinking to myself...should an inno really be making cases on someone and push lynches based solely on those types of arguments?
I would not. So how are you not questioning yourself HP?
A Wifom/meta case?...well done sir.

So D'riss you are allowed to use the same logic Hood's Path is using to attack Hood's Paht himself.Nice

Are you referring to the post above or below? Ill asume above since there is nothing above it.
What are you talking about....i never used any logic to attacked HP that he himself used in that snippet.
All i said in that quote was how bad form and shit logic it is to base a case on META and WIFOM....so what are you on about?

Quote

Now...Even if you are inno and feel vilified in your stance and you feel a killer was not online etc. etc. You then completely exonerate Korbas?
With seriously shitty reasoning, youve given him the "A OK"?... Just like that?... Not a second glance?
But nooo, D'riss must be looked at HARD.
D'riss...the person who tried to get you lynched yesterday....how convenient.
So now its not only Wifom and meta, its also OMGUS...bloody well done, a trifecta

Quick to point out WIFOM, quick to use WIFOM to make arguements. Moving on.
Where am i using WIFOM in this statement?
I was just pointing out what HP has done ,which was exhonorate Korbas, wich is strange even if inno...where are you getting this shit from?
Have i hit a nerve?

Quote

Never mind that you completely ignore the fact that the lynch was VERY rushed and there is a good chance the killers were not quick enough to even consider sending in an amended PM to PS?
My guess is that this is a 'two killer share a kill' game and that means the killers would have both had to have come to the same conclusion (first discuss it) and then both send in a PM.
Was there enough time?...did they even think about it?
I highly doubt it.
The real heat was only really applied on barghast right after the lynch anyways.
Plus you completely overlook the fact that a few people that where indeed online at the time, didnt even seem to have read the thread and just asked you guys who to vote for *cough* Mockra & fener *cough* because time was so short and they had "RL issues"!!.
Mockra and Fener both admitted they got caught up in RL and Mockra even asked who to vote for!....but lets completely ignore THAT!

Funny, I've asked people to speculate the setup with me so we can get a close to accurate D-Day, yet it was completely ignored, but D'riss comes strolling in here, jst to throw some piece of information to back up the agruement that's used.But hey, lets bring more WIFOM here since obviously we don't have enough , because that reasoning will clear your name up, since you weren't online at the time of the lynch.
As far as the RL thing, yea, god forbit something happens to people and can't spend 24/7 refreshing the thread to answer. At least I WAS online, in comparisson to other people- I DIDN'T ask who to vote, I had other suspects in mind- I could have just as easily voted for one of them a couple hours ago and entirely leave the thread- Yea, that would have been helpfull for us to get a lynch..

Yes you have asked people to speculate....and THERE ...I HAVE SPECULTED....YOU ARE WELCOME!!!!
Where is the WIFOM!!!
I am pointing out bits of WIFOM that HP conveniently "forgot" thats the point...HP is using certain WIFOM arguments to back up his own case...but ignores the other options.
So i have put them out there...not to make a case....but to show that HP is not looking at all the options.

Quote

HP...im quite convinced however that you are not a killer.
I think that if you are scum...then you are playing classic symp play. And if you are inno you are jumping at shadows and not really thinking things through enough.
Then there is your continuous talk of your own CF coming up inno which stinks to me of someone that really wants to drill that point home. But why?...to what ends?
You are VERY aware of your CF being inno and you REALY want people to pay attention to that fact once you become worm food.
And I dont see why any inno would care to point that out as much as you have.

This post is such a classic!!! especially the underlined part...hahaha

Hood, on 05 May 2010 - 07:46 PM, said:

I once got lynched in a game as a townie and the ENTIRE rest of the game had people trying to debate whether or not I was a member of the town or the scum. The scum theory was so prevalent, the real scum got away with it and won.

I was merely trying to stave that kind of nonsense off, but as usual, my comments get put under an electron microscope.

For the record, I was fully prepared to vote myself off to avoid a stalled lynch if that came to pass.

And the academy goes to...


Anyways....
So, with all this in mind.
Im thinking one or even two of Mockra and fener are the possible killers.
Fener has been very below radar while mockra has been ringin bells for me all game.
The Oh so sharp HP who doesnt miss the slightest thing...completely ignores these two.

And ill throw Korbas in there because you "PI'd" the fucking guy....I mean REALLY?
I am not sure what to make of that as i highly doubt a symp would PI his master.
But then again HP went through great pains to make us very aware of what his CF will be.

Another one is Osseric

Osseric, on 05 May 2010 - 05:34 PM, said:

lol... thanks Killers...

Why in the Hell would they Kill Barghast?

That leads me to believe that he was a predestined kill and that 1 or both of the Killers weren't around at Lynch time.

this makes me think he was well aware that he could not get his kill changed, perhaps a partner was not online.
Perhaps he simply thought about it too late.
But he WAS thinking about it.
It happens allot that a killer will say exaclty what happned behind the scenes as a ploy to look helpfull/innocent and maybe twist it suite his needs.
In this case, make the people who where not online look guilty.


So there it is ...ive caught up

I think we can find the scum in Fener, mockra, Osseric...and perhaps Korbas.
With HP as a possible symp.



IF i had to pick one....i would probably have to go for Mockra.

Underlined/Italics part.
Let's try to use the 'both killers online' WIFOM to build a case on someone else, and now let's try to turn the tables around so we can pressure someone else with a faultless logic.
Way to go contradicting yourself.
An entire post based on the logic of killers not being able to change their NAs , yet hey let's bring that into the arguement now, it obviously suits us.

Firstly ...way to ignore half the post...
Anyways....Once again....I was poiting out other WIFOM arguments that were conveniently overlooked by HP and his case.
Tell me... why are you jumping down my throat now for using the same logic as HP. Yet you never said a word about HP's logic when he himself used it????
HP makes WIFOM argumnets....and you do FUCK ALL...you dont make any objections to his fualty logic...
YET...I use same argument (in your eyes) and you shit your pants!!!!
*edit - added this aswell*
Sorry looked at wrong underlined part
Thats a perfectly reasonable assumption. Its not WIFOM...its how scum play sometimes..
I have done that as a killer....i have made a fuck up and then told the entire thread that exact fuck up to look helpful

Sorry...but your response has me thinking you are a little panicky as half of what you say doesnt make sense.

Vote Mockra

you look a little panicky




edit - colors...bloody colors

This post has been edited by D'riss: 06 May 2010 - 11:57 AM

[D'riss]

Mockra, on 06 May 2010 - 11:36 AM, said:

For me, its Wife In Front Of Me, such a powerfull arguement, I can't do anything but back down from it.

This is Ground Zero once again.
There's no way to be sure killers were online.
There's no way to be sure killers weren't online.

Follow one and be wrong, we can lose the game.
Follow the other and be wrong, we can lose the game.

fynny yet i dint see you making such a huge case against HP....since thats what HIS case is based on....NOT MINE

[D'riss]

You dont seem to understand.

I am saying that HP ignored certain facts/scenarios to suit his needs, like you (mockra) and fener not being up to date with the thread.
Therefore you guys ALSO would not have changed you NK off of barghast.

He looks to me like a classic opportunistic symp....and he has been pretty sharp with every other "mistake"
So why ignore this?
Because he perhaps is trying to get an inno lynched and one of you two might very well be the leader he is trying to protect.

Plus I dont know how he can PI korbas....its ridiculous
But i cant bring myself to believe a symp would just up and PI his master like that....with such dodgy reasoning.
So i dont know what to make of it....but there is something there.

His selective reasoning stinks of a symp trying to railroad the thread.

And i havent had a chance to go over the thread again but i wanted to have another look at you mockra because besides all the shit i saw on catchign up....you were ringing alarm bells from the get go. Need to go back and see if i can remember/figure out why.

[Mockra]

D, on 06 May 2010 - 11:48 AM, said:

fynny yet i dint see you making such a huge case against HP....since thats what HIS case is based on....NOT MINE

Because Hood's Path has been pinging my symp radar the entire time. And I want him to TALK more so I can conclude who his master IS. We're going for the masters here, not the symps. Symps should be our last lynch option if we can't concluse who they are symping for.
I could have come right in this thread down Hood's Path asking for explanations or I could simply let him talk more of his case here, and perhaps find something to go with.

But I wouldn't base my arguements on things like 'Killers were online' - or 'Killers weren't online', because again we don't know if this was planned or not.Thus the whole WIFOM case.It might be planned, it might not be planned- we can't base our entire course of actions on that because it WILL cost us the game.

[Korbas]

Ampelas, on 06 May 2010 - 07:04 AM, said:

Galain, you raise some good points. If the kill on barghast is a an attempt to frame D'riss/Korbas, then HP does look very suspicious. Going on about wanting to lynch Bargy before he comes up as dead, would fit right into the ploy too.

Given Korbas's random posting and lack of defense, plus HP's initial, faulty claim of Korbas being PI and his continued semi-defense of him, I'm pretty happy with my vote.

I'm beginning to be suspicious if you, Ampelas. So, somehow random posting makes me suspicious? Could you please elaborate on why?

Also, let's say I'm a master and HP is a symp, or HP a master and I'm a symp. Why would I vote to lynch HP?

[D'riss]

Mockra, on 06 May 2010 - 11:57 AM, said:

D, on 06 May 2010 - 11:48 AM, said:

fynny yet i dint see you making such a huge case against HP....since thats what HIS case is based on....NOT MINE

Because Hood's Path has been pinging my symp radar the entire time. And I want him to TALK more so I can conclude who his master IS. We're going for the masters here, not the symps. Symps should be our last lynch option if we can't concluse who they are symping for.
I could have come right in this thread down Hood's Path asking for explanations or I could simply let him talk more of his case here, and perhaps find something to go with.

But I wouldn't base my arguements on things like 'Killers were online' - or 'Killers weren't online', because again we don't know if this was planned or not.Thus the whole WIFOM case.It might be planned, it might not be planned- we can't base our entire course of actions on that because it WILL cost us the game.

So why are you giving me a hard time for berating HP? You make no sense.
I only used counter WIFOM arguments to show the thread how wrong HP can be by using WIFOM and META as his sole argument.
I never even used it to attakc him just to show the other possibilties.

I still dont get why you would jump down my throat and answer FOR the HP if you think HE is a symp!!
Intsead of letting him talk more like you apparently wanted him to?
Sorry thats even more suspicious to me.

[D'riss]

Another thing

I just cant see that Avatar of Korbas as being the guilty type....huge advantage with the cute factor.

[Mockra]

D, on 06 May 2010 - 11:55 AM, said:

You dont seem to understand.

I am saying that HP ignored certain facts/scenarios to suit his needs, like you (mockra) and fener not being up to date with the thread.
Therefore you guys ALSO would not have changed you NK off of barghast.

He looks to me like a classic opportunistic symp....and he has been pretty sharp with every other "mistake"
So why ignore this?
Because he perhaps is trying to get an inno lynched and one of you two might very well be the leader he is trying to protect.

Plus I dont know how he can PI korbas....its ridiculous
But i cant bring myself to believe a symp would just up and PI his master like that....with such dodgy reasoning.
So i dont know what to make of it....but there is something there.

His selective reasoning stinks of a symp trying to railroad the thread.

And i havent had a chance to go over the thread again but i wanted to have another look at you mockra because besides all the shit i saw on catchign up....you were ringing alarm bells from the get go. Need to go back and see if i can remember/figure out why.

That's why I said the entire WIFOM thing. I was online before the day run out.There was some time still.I had suspects of my own, but we were getting close to not having a lynch at all, and I'd take a lynch over a non-lynch any day.You can argue I'm a killer, I can argue you are a killer, thats fine- Still your whole arguement is based on this:

The killers are Mockra and Fener because the game has 2 killers sharing kill scenario, and Fener and Mockra weren't online for enough time in the end to change their NAs from Bargast to someone else

When in fact this could have easily been a move from the true killers to have every one of us wtf-ing about it.


Like I said, I would much rather start from scratch, than try to follow it up and potentially handing the game to scums without them doing anything at all.

[Korbas]

D, on 06 May 2010 - 12:17 PM, said:

Another thing

I just cant see that Avatar of Korbas as being the guilty type....huge advantage with the cute factor.

Word.

I'm going to try my best to be on during lynch time today, no promises though. Anyway, off to class for a few hours.

[Mockra]

D, on 06 May 2010 - 12:06 PM, said:

So why are you giving me a hard time for berating HP? You make no sense.
I only used counter WIFOM arguments to show the thread how wrong HP can be by using WIFOM and META as his sole argument.
I never even used it to attakc him just to show the other possibilties.

I still dont get why you would jump down my throat and answer FOR the HP if you think HE is a symp!!
Intsead of letting him talk more like you apparently wanted him to?
Sorry thats even more suspicious to me.

You are allowed to put pressure on people, I am allowed to put pressure on people- Everyone needs to be questioned about what is going on and why.
If I can't be able to pinpoint scum by myself, for what ever reason, I can at least try to find people who are on my side, try to understand their reasonings and see if I can help them more in cases they make that seem to hold some water.

[D'riss]

Mockra, on 06 May 2010 - 12:19 PM, said:

D, on 06 May 2010 - 11:55 AM, said:

You dont seem to understand.

I am saying that HP ignored certain facts/scenarios to suit his needs, like you (mockra) and fener not being up to date with the thread.
Therefore you guys ALSO would not have changed you NK off of barghast.

He looks to me like a classic opportunistic symp....and he has been pretty sharp with every other "mistake"
So why ignore this?
Because he perhaps is trying to get an inno lynched and one of you two might very well be the leader he is trying to protect.

Plus I dont know how he can PI korbas....its ridiculous
But i cant bring myself to believe a symp would just up and PI his master like that....with such dodgy reasoning.
So i dont know what to make of it....but there is something there.

His selective reasoning stinks of a symp trying to railroad the thread.

And i havent had a chance to go over the thread again but i wanted to have another look at you mockra because besides all the shit i saw on catchign up....you were ringing alarm bells from the get go. Need to go back and see if i can remember/figure out why.

That's why I said the entire WIFOM thing. I was online before the day run out.There was some time still.I had suspects of my own, but we were getting close to not having a lynch at all, and I'd take a lynch over a non-lynch any day.You can argue I'm a killer, I can argue you are a killer, thats fine- Still your whole arguement is based on this:

NO...my argument is based on the fact that HP "failed" to see that side of the argument....there is an inherent difference.
I am not saying that the kill did not go through because you were not fully online. Thats only part of my point.
My main point is that HP never took this into consideration.
He Never took the speed at wich the lynch went into consideration. Why didnt he?
There is a chance that he never said anything or looked at it becuase he cant....becasue you or fener are his master.
understand? That is separate to the WIFOM counter argument... Its about HP's actions, why he chose that particular WIFOM argument to follow above all the other potential wifom scenarios.

Mockra, on 06 May 2010 - 12:19 PM, said:

The killers are Mockra and Fener because the game has 2 killers sharing kill scenario, and Fener and Mockra weren't online for enough time in the end to change their NAs from Bargast to someone else

When in fact this could have easily been a move from the true killers to have every one of us wtf-ing about it.


Like I said, I would much rather start from scratch, than try to follow it up and potentially handing the game to scums without them doing anything at all.

again.
I said that as one of the other scenarios that could be the case...A scneario that HP either missed or chose not to pursue instead going straight for me...PI'ing korbas and not even bothering to have a look at the train to see who might have been online but not really clued/caught up enough to go about doing a NK change.
Its HP's actions that i am saying could be a sign of your or feners guilt. Not the wifom argument. HP selectively picking his WIFOM argument and ignoring other to suit his needs
With HP as a symp this all makes sense to me.


But then you come flying outa the woodwork giving me a hard time for apparently doing the exact thing you claim one of your suspects did? yyet you never say a thing to your suspect when he did it in the first place?
So you were more worried about self preservation than about "finding answers" from your symp suspect?


meh...

[D'riss]

Mockra, on 06 May 2010 - 12:23 PM, said:

D, on 06 May 2010 - 12:06 PM, said:

So why are you giving me a hard time for berating HP? You make no sense.
I only used counter WIFOM arguments to show the thread how wrong HP can be by using WIFOM and META as his sole argument.
I never even used it to attakc him just to show the other possibilties.

I still dont get why you would jump down my throat and answer FOR the HP if you think HE is a symp!!
Intsead of letting him talk more like you apparently wanted him to?
Sorry thats even more suspicious to me.

You are allowed to put pressure on people, I am allowed to put pressure on people- Everyone needs to be questioned about what is going on and why.
If I can't be able to pinpoint scum by myself, for what ever reason, I can at least try to find people who are on my side, try to understand their reasonings and see if I can help them more in cases they make that seem to hold some water.

Yes i am allowed to put pressure , just like i did a little bit in that post as i mentioned your name as a suspect...no vote on you...nothing that serious.
And you come flying out and almost have a meltdown
You were quoting posts of mine saying they are WIFOM when there was non to be seen.

You seemed very rattled with your counter post to me.
Thats the way i see it.
for now my vote stays.