[Path-Shaper]

From Mockra and Amp

Mockra, on 10 May 2010 - 10:30 AM, said:

Do we still want to kill someone this night?

Lets say for once, that Fener takes too long to appear, and the timer runs out. Perhaps a no kill night will add more comfusion to the thread. If we kill Liosan or Osseric, we blow our cover, and if Fener dies his CF will be a potato. So if we don't register a kill, perhaps people will be more suspicious of Fener as well. Why didn't he die since its getting clear that the opposing parties are Mockra-Ampelas vs Liosan-Osseric? The trouble is , there is no possible way to assosiate Fener with Liosan or Osseric, since Fener didn't hammer me when he had the chance. The only way I see out of it, is to convince people that Fener and Mockra are killers, but lynch Fener first instead of Mockra, which I doubt they will do.

Drats. If Fener sticked around after that speed lynch, perhaps we had some chances to win this, but he went MIA the entire weekend. It's not helpfull when you try to pull a stant like that, or when you rely on him for the outcome of the game.

And now the spuds want to talk it over...


~le sigh~

Ampelas, on 10 May 2010 - 11:18 AM, said:

Yeah, Fener is really messing with things, it would have been way easier if he had shown up when Korbas's vote was still on Lio. Withholding today may help, killing tonight doesnt give us the victory, but killing Fener would make it you and me vs Lio and Oss with Korbas the swing vote. And Korbas has already shown that we might be able to convince him to vote Lio again.

Worst case I'll reveal healer if it looks like I'm definitely going down. I've got a fairly credible story as to why I haven't revealed yet and it's worth a shot. With the uncertainity you've instilled in Korbas about Lio, it may be enough to swing the thread. And if it doesn't work it will be good for a laugh.

[Path-Shaper]

Mockra's being whiney end game, lol

Mockra, on 10 May 2010 - 12:19 PM, said:

Well, I hope it's a good one. Because in the thread I've never said that I believe you're not a killer. I was all over Liosan, and all the while hinting I wouldn't mind lynching you as well, just that we got more evidence on him than you.

Trouble is, Liosan is gonna go after you now, and Osseric will simply back him up. No matter how truthfull your story sounds, it seems people are more inclined to believe that Liosan made an honest mistake due to him being a new guy, rather than been a scum move. Not to mention you will have to sound so convincing, that in the end people will simply say that its TOO good to be true.

I think thats a consequence of people reading the signup threads. Perhaps sign ups should be done via PMs instead of them been open for everyone to see. That way people will have no evidence of alt-guessing via the thread, and bring up META stuff.

[Path-Shaper]

The game's definitely going to be a nail biter.

Liosan, on 10 May 2010 - 04:46 PM, said:

I think I'm finally understanding this whole WIFOM. My proposal is the ultimate WIFOM senario. That is if everyone that matters goes with it. Do I heal Fener or do I heal Korbas. Will the killer think that I will heal the Guard or the RI. They know that I was willing to not heal the guard earlier in the game but will I do it again. Or will they think that I will think they will trick me and kill Fener.... I can't best a Cycelian. I think I'll flip a coin.

Liosan may understand WIFOM, but the very same principle may cost him the game... there's a lot of doubt in innotown right now.

And really, it doesn't matter if Liosan heals the right person. If you are doubting his reveal, a kill could just be his way to set up one person... and a non-kill could be an intentional withholding to frame Mockra. Really, this game doesn't need an extra day. It needs Korbas and Fener to decide right now.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 10 May 2010 - 04:49 PM

[Path-Shaper]

Mockra, on 10 May 2010 - 05:50 PM, said:

Path Shaper I need a ruling here, because this will be my saved knuckle.

Can I bring time tables as part of an arguement? ie

XXX demanded to see the counter reveal yet he insta voted for me in a matter of minutes after the reveal without waiting to see if there will be one? (and bring post timers into the arguement as well? )

Its the last thing I can think off, at the moment, I believe I've read somewhere its not allowed to , but I guess it doesnt hurt to ask anyway.

Path-Shaper, on 10 May 2010 - 05:59 PM, said:

ANYTHING that is "on-thread" is always available for usage. Post times, post edits, and whatnot are all part of that.

You may NOT use anything sent to you in PMs (such as this one), including content or post times.

Mockra may be trying a bit too hard but we'll see. So far, he's got Vengy really unsure.

[Path-Shaper]

This is just ridiculous.

Mockra, on 10 May 2010 - 06:37 PM, said:

Quote

Now this is why I suspect Mockra to be Meat. Day one Mockra for some reason just caught my attention. There was nothing specific just the general feel of his posts. I thought that if he caught my eye he may have caught a killer's eye as well so I healed him that first night. You see how well that worked out for the spuds. Also, when I sent in my pm to pathshaper to heal Mockra he came back and was a bit too curious in my book as to wanting to know why I chose him to heal. (I presume because he wanted to laugh at me) I thought that was odd as well. Not sure if it was relevant but it struck a chord with me, nonetheless

Taken from Liosans reveal post.
Do you even read my PMs here, or you just skimm them as well?

Path-Shaper, on 10 May 2010 - 06:52 PM, said:

You clearly don't have all of the information. Don't go crying foul on the moderating team.

You need to shut up and play.

Path-Shaper, on 10 May 2010 - 06:56 PM, said:

Seriously, that pisses me off in all kinds of ways.

Did Liosan quote something from a PM? Nope, he paraphrased.
Do you have any idea if Liosan is actually telling the truth or not (about anything, his role, his PMs, etc)? Nope, he could be lying his ass off like you are currently doing.

What a joke. Don't go crying just because one guy did a reveal that's got you in hot water. No rules were broken here, just typical mafia business.

[Path-Shaper]

The game could have technically ended not long ago... Liosan self voted and Ampelas wasn't around to finish it.

I dunno what his deal is... he's letting the pressure get to him.

And this business about Spycraft starting is bull... that game won't start for a week!

[Tapper]

Quote

What a joke. Don't go crying just because one guy did a reveal that's got you in hot water. No rules were broken here, just typical mafia business.

Don't forget you're dealing with a new player here, who is testing the waters. While he promises to become quite the shark (I never would have thought of using posting times, for one) he is also unsure on what is allowed and what not, and may be incredibly naive on other things that are plain old truths to us, like everybody lies, don't get into a landwar in Asia, pissing contests with dkt get you dead, Morghy is too smart for his own good, and lynch dibs when he is reasonable.

As for Spycraft: indeed, and we're not going to move it forward in time either.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 10 May 2010 - 07:48 PM

[Path-Shaper]

Mockra, on 10 May 2010 - 07:06 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 10 May 2010 - 05:59 PM, said:

ANYTHING that is "on-thread" is always available for usage. Post times, post edits, and whatnot are all part of that.

You may NOT use anything sent to you in PMs (such as this one), including content or post times.

This is what you told me.
Paraphrasing isnt using content?

It's not like he revealed saying he's a potato so and so, or using a PM role name or something, that can be countered in some way. Its using something that came back to him as part of the conversation with you guys, down the road, that resulted from one of his NA's.As far as if its true or not, it's not the point of my question.It's basing actions and posts on something that happened with a 3rd party.

I got no beef with you, if I had, I would have said so right when it happened.You need to keep in mind that different people allow different things.
I asked D'rek in the previous game if I could use something as part of an arguement, she said you could do so and so but you can not under any circumstances say you are the new player.This happened here, when it might not be something you intended or not.I'm trying to adjust to different situations, but when different people jump on the mod allias sometimes different things happen.

Path-Shaper, on 10 May 2010 - 07:16 PM, said:

OK, let me restate that. Bent's rules are usually different than mine.

Simply stated, you can say what you want about "what you were told" but the moment you QUOTE a PM or paraphrase it in such a way that it's designed to skirt the quote rule (such as only changing one or two words), that's a violation.

Mockra, on 10 May 2010 - 07:27 PM, said:

But how is it possible to counter an arguement like that? I get what you are saying, but how can I counter an arguement that is based upon a conversation I did not witness or participate in the first place, since it doesnt have any kind of info in regards to setup or OP or anything that we can cross examine?

Path-Shaper, on 10 May 2010 - 08:18 PM, said:

You can offer your own similar argument? You can call him a liar and try to find examples?

It's part of any mafia game. How do you argue your point? You offer a good mixture of truths, half-truths, lies, reveals, and whatnot.

Ampelas, on 10 May 2010 - 08:19 PM, said:

Ok, I'm back - what a day. Anyway, it seems the thread is still faffing around, I'm considering revealing as the healer anyway just to force the game to go one way or the other. It would really help if Korbas was around though, if we could get a snap decision down it would really help.

And PS - I think the point that Mockra is making is that Lio said that half the reason he was all over Mockra is that something about PS's manner in a PM made him think there was more to Mockra than met the eye. I wasn't going to mention it, since it was obviously not intended and could just have been a coincidence, but mods need to be careful about what they say to players - the fact that they know more than everyone else means info sometimes filters through to the players, even if it is through something innocent like asking a player's motives for a certain action.

To clarify - the problem is not that Lio has alluded to the conversation as part of his case, it's that he got sent on the right direction in the first place by something PS said.

Path-Shaper, on 10 May 2010 - 08:22 PM, said:

Well I can tell you that my PMs to players are almost unilaterally neutral. I can't speak on behalf of the other mods.

-pb

Ampelas, on 10 May 2010 - 08:24 PM, said:

I'd rather another fuss wasn't kicked up really.

Mockra, what are your thoughts on my revealing? If we're gonna go down, it might as well be in flames

Ampelas, on 10 May 2010 - 08:30 PM, said:

And if we lynch someone other than Liosan - kill Liosan?

Liosan just feels overwhelmed. Just relax, guy! Mistakes are made when people overthink and squirm under pressure.

Liosan, on 10 May 2010 - 07:56 PM, said:

Thank god Osseric has a clue of what is going on. Now it's up to Fener/Korbas to make the right pick. God I wish I had more skill at this game. It would have been a slam dunk victory for the potatoes if I had Mockra's debate skills to go with my instincts.

Path-Shaper, on 10 May 2010 - 08:24 PM, said:

Heh heh, spoilers should be a good read for you when you get a chance to read them.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 10 May 2010 - 08:31 PM

[Path-Shaper]

I was just hotheaded over that business with Ed, it wasn't personal, Tap. The guy plays very well, but I think he is still fishing way too hard for information.

[Path-Shaper]

I think Liosan's a little forgetful.

Liosan, on 10 May 2010 - 08:26 PM, said:

I certainly hope so.

I would like to put in a provisional. If they Lynch Osseric then I would like to heal myself. That is if you will let me do that otherwise heal Korbas that is if they don't lynch me first.

Path-Shaper, on 10 May 2010 - 08:32 PM, said:

Nope, you can't heal yourself. That was explained to you a while ago, I believe.

Technically, the killers don't have the prov in yet, but Ampelas did realize that. An Osseric lynch is still technically game over unless the killers don't get the provisional in to kill the healer.

Liosan, on 10 May 2010 - 08:36 PM, said:

No you didn't explain it you just said that I couldn't do it. Why not then if everyone knew that I couldn't heal myself then if we do the wrong lynch they would target me knowing I couldn't do anything to stop it. So the lynch on Osseric will be game over.

Path-Shaper, on 10 May 2010 - 08:52 PM, said:

I don't know if that's a question or not, but restated or whatnot, you can't heal yourself. Healers can pretty much never heal themselves in games without very weird rules.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 10 May 2010 - 08:54 PM

[Path-Shaper]

[quote name='Mockra' timestamp='1273523825' date='10 May 2010 - 04:37 PM']
[quote name='Ampelas' timestamp='1273522796' date='10 May 2010 - 10:19 PM']
And PS - I think the point that Mockra is making is that Lio said that half the reason he was all over Mockra is that something about PS's manner in a PM made him think there was more to Mockra than met the eye. I wasn't going to mention it, since it was obviously not intended and could just have been a coincidence, but mods need to be careful about what they say to players - the fact that they know more than everyone else means info sometimes filters through to the players, even if it is through something innocent like asking a player's motives for a certain action.

To clarify - the problem is not that Lio has alluded to the conversation as part of his case, it's that he got sent on the right direction in the first place by something PS said.[/quote]
[quote name='Ampelas' timestamp='1273524038' date='10 May 2010 - 04:40 PM']
Hey guy, it's getting pretty late here

Sorry that I haven't been able to get online much the past few days, right now I'm really not sure which way to go. keep flick-flacking between fake revealing or not - the one thing I can't properly explain away is why Lio would reveal if he wasn't sure the true healer was dead, except that the fact that his name was being bandied around the day before for a lynch. Otherwise see if you can convince Lio to vote oss, switch quick and I'll jump in for the lurk hammer and we leave it up to the NK?[/quote]
[quote name='Mockra' timestamp='1273524240' date='10 May 2010 - 04:44 PM']
@ Yes, if we lynch someone else other than Liosan, kill Liosan.

Still your reveal will probably not fly.You had lots of time to do it through the weekend and you didn't. People are simply 'set' on who they think the killers are. The only difference will be made by Feners and Korbas decision, and a counter reveal from you at this point will only bring more attention to YOU, and what you possibly have to gain by revealing so late.

If they switch to you because of that, the game will probably be lost since I can't really get rid of Liosan or Osseric as a Night Kill, and I need Korbas and Fener around because they are the only people likely to believe any kind of shit I say.


In conclusion, I have no fucking clue
It can end in any kind of fashion you want it to end.[/quote]

[quote name='Ampelas' timestamp='1273524436' date='10 May 2010 - 04:47 PM']
[quote name='Mockra' timestamp='1273524240' date='10 May 2010 - 10:44 PM']
@ Yes, if we lynch someone else other than Liosan, kill Liosan.

Still your reveal will probably not fly.You had lots of time to do it through the weekend and you didn't. People are simply 'set' on who they think the killers are. The only difference will be made by Feners and Korbas decision, and a counter reveal from you at this point will only bring more attention to YOU, and what you possibly have to gain by revealing so late.

If they switch to you because of that, the game will probably be lost since I can't really get rid of Liosan or Osseric as a Night Kill, and I need Korbas and Fener around because they are the only people likely to believe any kind of shit I say.


In conclusion, I have no fucking clue
It can end in any kind of fashion you want it to end.[/quote]

Yeah, I'm not seeing my reveal working, I really should have jumped in straight away, but it was hella risky with noone around and Fener MIA.

Fener left his vote on Oss and Lio seems like he might be convinced to vote that way. I think that's the best chance we have at the moment.

PS, bolded the provisional so you dont miss it.[/quote]
[quote name='Mockra' timestamp='1273524724' date='10 May 2010 - 04:52 PM']
I can try to get something swinging that way, the only problem I see is that Liosan will probably NOT vote for Osseric until Korbas is actually indeed around.

And Korbas atm has class, so chances of him lurking in the thread are actually ziltch, so even if I remove my vote and vote for Osseric, Liosan will probably wait for Korbas to make sure he doesn't get guarded tonight-

Well, Liosan seems as tired of this stalemate as I am, the only trouble is that he's set on achieving at least a draw by dragging this game more than its supposed to, and I'm not actually convinced if he would be willing to simply vote for Osseric just to get it over with.

Plus it will make our win shallow, if he simply does it to end the game.[/quote]
Killers set up the other obvious end-game scenario. Also, alt146 is probably right. A reveal now looks desperate. Best to let this one play out, IMO.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 10 May 2010 - 08:57 PM

[Path-Shaper]

Mockra, on 10 May 2010 - 08:56 PM, said:

And my entire last pm got sweped away since Korbas is around- and he doesn't want to vote for Osseric either and prefers to wait for Fener.

Ampelas, on 10 May 2010 - 08:57 PM, said:

Mockra, on 10 May 2010 - 08:52 PM, said:

I can try to get something swinging that way, the only problem I see is that Liosan will probably NOT vote for Osseric until Korbas is actually indeed around.

And Korbas atm has class, so chances of him lurking in the thread are actually ziltch, so even if I remove my vote and vote for Osseric, Liosan will probably wait for Korbas to make sure he doesn't get guarded tonight-

Well, Liosan seems as tired of this stalemate as I am, the only trouble is that he's set on achieving at least a draw by dragging this game more than its supposed to, and I'm not actually convinced if he would be willing to simply vote for Osseric just to get it over with.

Plus it will make our win shallow, if he simply does it to end the game.

Korbas is around, I'll try stay up another 30 min and see what you can do. Any shenanigans by me will bring the thread down on my head at this point.

Path-Shaper, on 10 May 2010 - 08:59 PM, said:

FYI, this is my current provisional for you. Let me know if it's wrong:

If Liosan is lynched, kill Korbas, if anyone else is lynched, kill Liosan, if nobody is lynched, kill Fener

Ampelas, on 10 May 2010 - 08:59 PM, said:

And there is still the slim chance that Lio has a BP, in which case he deserves to pick up the win, since he managed to corner us quite effectively and choose the right course of action.

Ampelas, on 10 May 2010 - 09:01 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 10 May 2010 - 08:59 PM, said:

FYI, this is my current provisional for you. Let me know if it's wrong:

If Liosan is lynched, kill Korbas, if anyone else is lynched, kill Liosan, if nobody is lynched, kill Fener

That's exactly it.

Good note from Ampelas... Liosan could be a Loaded BP, but in this case, he's not.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 10 May 2010 - 09:02 PM

[Path-Shaper]

Looks like Ed may want to force the town to resolve this right now, possibly by trying to use Liosan's WIFOM against him.

Mockra, on 10 May 2010 - 09:02 PM, said:

If Liosan is lynched, kill Korbas, if anyone else is lynched, kill Liosan, if nobody is lynched, no kill.


I'd rather go for that.

[Path-Shaper]

Uh oh, looking like Korbas is leaning the other way, now.

Path-Shaper, on 10 May 2010 - 09:01 PM, said:

I just saw a PM from you that said

Guard Mockra

But I can't reply to it anymore, which makes me think you deleted it.

Is that an accurate update to your provisional action?

Korbas, on 10 May 2010 - 09:04 PM, said:

Yah, I'm guarding Mockra. Was just deleting all of my PMs because it's close to the end of the game and wanted to clean up the inbox for the next person who uses this account.

Path-Shaper, on 10 May 2010 - 09:07 PM, said:

K.

And what makes you think it's close to the end?!

alt146 wants to push the game forward. Not terrible logic... it is pretty much 50/50 on who gets killed, for sure. Tomorrow, it forces town to decide, too, since they are out of time.

Ampelas, on 10 May 2010 - 09:04 PM, said:

Mockra, on 10 May 2010 - 09:02 PM, said:

If Liosan is lynched, kill Korbas, if anyone else is lynched, kill Liosan, if nobody is lynched, no kill.


I'd rather go for that.

Do we really want to sit here and play no-kill chicken for another couple of days? I's rather take my chances with Fener dead, the only person we have to convince at that point is Korbas.

Ah, but Mockra is completely ignoring the fact that Liosan could be lying a bit to cover up his role. He's not, but in this case, it's something you should consider.

Mockra, on 10 May 2010 - 09:07 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 10 May 2010 - 09:04 PM, said:

Do we really want to sit here and play no-kill chicken for another couple of days? I's rather take my chances with Fener dead, the only person we have to convince at that point is Korbas.

There is a big chance Liosan will heal either Fener or Korbas at this point, and we end up without a kill after all.
Also, as far as his BP he revealed backed potato not loaded backed potato, and he was REALLY worried he would be killed this night which makes me think he doesnt have a BP what so ever.

But I guess there is no real reason to prolong this more than its supposed to.So yea, alright on Fener as a Night Target if noone is lynched.

Ampelas, on 10 May 2010 - 09:09 PM, said:

hitting a heal will be exactly the same as withholding, so we might as well go for it, is the way I see it.

Funny thing is that Fener may actually be the guy to keep alive... Korbas is the guy you want to kill, but it's definitely playing Chicken with Liosan.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 10 May 2010 - 09:13 PM

[Path-Shaper]

Definitely feeling the pressure here.

Liosan, on 10 May 2010 - 09:04 PM, said:

I just got a funny feeling by that last Korbas post. If Osseric missed a prime opportunity to lynch me then i could easily see a Korbas/Osseric team.
Both Osseric and Korbas jumped on my train to get Mockra lynched. But Korbas was the only one to switch to the train to get me lynched. Now Korbas is okay with lynching Ampelas yet not Osseric. But that doesn't make sense because Korbas removed his vote to lynch me when he could have just pmd Osseric to vote me out and it would have been game over. So again why do I torture myself with all this self doubt. Must I reconfirm what I already know over and over?

[Path-Shaper]

Lio goes for the gold. As it currently stands, a no-lynch will see Fener live.

Liosan, on 10 May 2010 - 09:18 PM, said:

Sorry about that.


I want to change my heal to Fener. Some how I feel this is the right call though if we get a lynch on Ampelas then I don't think it will matter.

Path-Shaper, on 10 May 2010 - 09:33 PM, said:

Noted.

[Path-Shaper]

Personal advice to Twelve for when he reads this after the game... you are doing fine in the action department, but you need a lot more self-confidence. Just relax, don't let people push you around, ESPECIALLY when you know you're telling the truth. When you have the truth on your side, it's very hard to lose.

[Path-Shaper]

Ampelas, on 10 May 2010 - 09:26 PM, said:

Ok, I really can't keep my eyes open anymore. It sounds like there might be enough people willing to vote Oss. I really need to go to bed, else I'll be dead to the world tomorrow.

Mockra, on 10 May 2010 - 09:36 PM, said:

Ye, good night - I'm off to get some sleep myself.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 10 May 2010 - 09:49 PM

[Path-Shaper]

Well, Vengey, in the end, went for Ampelas, so unless Korbas stalemates it, looks like the scum are going to lose after all.

Helluva performance by Mockra, though.

[Path-Shaper]

Liosan makes the smart move... an Ampelas lynch clearly means the guard should live to seal the game.

Liosan, on 10 May 2010 - 10:02 PM, said:

WIFOM

Heal Korbas.....