[Vaine]

I dont know if this has been asked before, but search didn't come up with anything.

After reading someone saying that Tayscrenn was 'in a league of his own as a mage', I started wondering just how powerful he really is. In a face to face battle, who do you think would win between Tay and QB?

This post has been edited by Vaine: 30 April 2010 - 09:57 PM

[Defiance]

I'd say Quick Ben, after all he

Spoiler

Held of Icarium, even if it was only for a bit.

Plus a whole lot of other badass stuff.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Not sure how far along you've read in the series Vaine, but there are a bunch of who's the best mage type threads in later forums. And really, if you are gonna be discussing these two in particular, it would be very advantageous to the discussion to have that information.

As of MoI tho? I'd say I would have said Tays hands down.

[SpectreofEschaton]

I don't think we have enough evidence to say either way, even if there *is* a definitive answer, which, knowing SE, there very likely isn't.

I mean, we have no reason whatsoever to suspect that Tayschrenn would be unable to do any of the things Quick Ben does, and vice-versa (especially given his little display at the end of DoD).

...Raest+Finnest curbstomps everyone though.

[stone monkey]

I would say that Tayschrenn and Quick Ben come at things from very different perspectives. QB is about displays of raw power only when he has to be, whereas Tays made that his primary focus.

In a stand-up fight I'd say Tayschrenn, every time; but I'd hazard a guess that Quick Ben would endeavour to make sure that his opponent didn't get the opportunity to even get to a stand-up fight; and if they did get that far, they'd have to fight from a disadvantaged position... Which would make him by far the more dangerous of the two imo.

[Vaine]

I'm surprised to see so many 'votes' for Tayscrenn, exactly what makes him so powerful compared to QB? I don't really mind spoilers.

[SpectreofEschaton]

Vaine, on 01 May 2010 - 12:08 AM, said:

I'm surprised to see so many 'votes' for Tayscrenn, exactly what makes him so powerful compared to QB? I don't really mind spoilers.

Most of Tays' feats are in the early books, actually. (Almost all of them, really). Standing down Rake, carving chunks out of Moon's Spawn, burning the top six feet of Coral's stone walls to ash.

Really, though, the parrying of Rake's KG blasts is probably the biggest accomplishment. Especially given that he was half focused on trying to murder an Elder Goddess and keeping a posse of demons in line at the same time.

[Vaine]

SpectreofEschaton, on 01 May 2010 - 12:19 AM, said:

Vaine, on 01 May 2010 - 12:08 AM, said:

I'm surprised to see so many 'votes' for Tayscrenn, exactly what makes him so powerful compared to QB? I don't really mind spoilers.

Most of Tays' feats are in the early books, actually. (Almost all of them, really). Standing down Rake, carving chunks out of Moon's Spawn, burning the top six feet of Coral's stone walls to ash.

Really, though, the parrying of Rake's KG blasts is probably the biggest accomplishment. Especially given that he was half focused on trying to murder an Elder Goddess and keeping a posse of demons in line at the same time.

Damn, I really need to reread GotM.

[SpectreofEschaton]

Vaine, on 01 May 2010 - 12:30 AM, said:

SpectreofEschaton, on 01 May 2010 - 12:19 AM, said:

Vaine, on 01 May 2010 - 12:08 AM, said:

I'm surprised to see so many 'votes' for Tayscrenn, exactly what makes him so powerful compared to QB? I don't really mind spoilers.

Most of Tays' feats are in the early books, actually. (Almost all of them, really). Standing down Rake, carving chunks out of Moon's Spawn, burning the top six feet of Coral's stone walls to ash.

Really, though, the parrying of Rake's KG blasts is probably the biggest accomplishment. Especially given that he was half focused on trying to murder an Elder Goddess and keeping a posse of demons in line at the same time.

Damn, I really need to reread GotM.

To be fair, I need to as well, but as far as I can recall, that's how it went down. If not, someone more informed can correct me, hopefully.

[Vaine]

Thing is, I've only gotten as far as page 200-something of Midnight Tides. So starting a reread of the first book already seems to be kinda pointless.

[anothevilbadguy]

Vaine, on 01 May 2010 - 01:03 AM, said:

Thing is, I've only gotten as far as page 200-something of Midnight Tides. So starting a reread of the first book already seems to be kinda pointless.

Tays is certainly the most powerful on the evidence we have seen. Especially if you take ICE's novels into account. It also does seem Tay is pretty smart, he just plays a very long game. However, there are still many mysteries surrounding QB. Tay is only a step or so behind the main powerhouses, i.e. Elder Gods, Matrons and Jaghut Tyrants , and probably Rake. So, I would think QB mysteries would have to be pretty damn significant to put him ahead of Tay.

[Vaine]

Does Tay command any elder warrens? Can he use more than one warren at a time? Does he have access to more than one warren? Doesn't things like this put QB ahead of him?

[Silencer]

I'll be contrary to that, aeb.

QB is probably Tayschrenn's equal in most things, his better in some. The only edge Tay has on QB is displays of raw power in the early novels - QB has his own in later ones, and his sheer skill and intelligence would probably allow him to one-up Tay in most circumstances. I suppose I'd give Tay the edge in terms of power reserves, though. The man can just keep hurling magic forever, it seems, while Quick tends to tire much faster (then again, that's usually when he is channelling six or so warrens at the same time, a feat Tay probably can't even begin to compare with...though that may simply be choice, rather than limitations).

To focus purely on MoI, Quick controls the descent of half a mountain, using no doubt D'riss, a warren he has shown very little familiarity with in the past, and while this alone could be put down to his link to Hood's power through Talamandas, I very much doubt that is the case (given in RG he

Spoiler

does a very similar thing with D'riss against the three sisters, without any god's assistance

) and we can see from Dust of Dreams

Spoiler

That he was willing, and able, to put himself in the path of Draconus. Brazen bluff? Maybe, but I very much doubt it is so in that case.

.

Now, to consider Tay taking on Rake in Gardens, there are several factors to take into account.
Rake was dealing with four High Mages and the mage cadre, and he outright stated that he didn't commit to the battle properly, instead trying to make the casualties too high for Tay to accept.
Tay was busy playing out his own plans against Nightchill, who of course was making a play for Dragnipur too.
Rake only needed to pull back in order to save Moon's Spawn. The implication is he wouldn't really have been that hard pressed if it was just him vs the mages, he just needed to defend his people's home too.

Plus you have the whole question of exactly how events DID go down in that scene, and that leaves many unresolved questions to this day.

Basically, though, I'd say read on, and decide more for yourself later in the series. Hell, I think it may even come down to the Crippled God for us to see what QB's really capable of.

[Silencer]

Double-post.

The answers are:

No Elder Warrens that we know of. It's even theoretically impossible for humans to access the Elder Warrens as at MoI.
Yes, he has more than one warren at his disposal, most likely a combo of Telas and Thyr, the former being High Telas.
Whether he can use them together is not known, really.
And no, it doesn't really make QB the superior mage. The question is how many of Quick's warrens are High warrens, i.e. his ability with them. Sure, he can do things Tay can't with his combinations (see Dust of Dreams for an awesome passage on that), but in terms of raw power, that is a limit that the person's own body imposes on them. Just because he can split his power across several different sources doesn't mean that the total is higher, if you will.

That's not to say Quick isn't superior, but neither does it say he is. Multiple warrens just speaks to a broader range of capabilities, rather than deeper.

[Vaine]

Well we all know QB can use High Maenas, but that's the only one I know of. 

[Silencer]

Exactly, we just don't know with his other warrens. I'm of the opinion he's got maybe one or two other High warrens at his disposal, but Meanas is, and always has been his forte. He appeared to be rather skilled at Serc in MoI too, a somewhat rare warren as far as the series is concerned. But hey, this is the guy who spouts off information gods are surprised he knows. XD

[Vaine]

Actually, according to Malaz Wiki, he used Telas to some proficiency in MoI as well, turning a landslide into molten rock. I can't remember if that was the same incidence as with controlling the mountainside, but an impressive display of power nontheless.

[SpectreofEschaton]

Vaine, on 01 May 2010 - 01:54 AM, said:

Actually, according to Malaz Wiki, he used Telas to some proficiency in MoI as well, turning a landslide into molten rock. I can't remember if that was the same incidence as with controlling the mountainside, but an impressive display of power nontheless.

DoD

Spoiler

He uses Telas (presumably) a hell of a lot more proficiently in Dust of Dreams. I'd almost question Tayschrenn's ability to do something similar.

To one of the above posts, though, I really can't see Tays as being anywhere near the continent-busters like Gothos, Rake, Raest, etc. I mean, for human, sure, he's about as mean as they come, but...seriously. He's not even playing the same game as the likes of them, let alone the same league, in terms of raw power.

[anothevilbadguy]

SpectreofEschaton, on 01 May 2010 - 02:13 AM, said:

Vaine, on 01 May 2010 - 01:54 AM, said:

Actually, according to Malaz Wiki, he used Telas to some proficiency in MoI as well, turning a landslide into molten rock. I can't remember if that was the same incidence as with controlling the mountainside, but an impressive display of power nontheless.

DoD

Spoiler

He uses Telas (presumably) a hell of a lot more proficiently in Dust of Dreams. I'd almost question Tayschrenn's ability to do something similar.

To one of the above posts, though, I really can't see Tays as being anywhere near the continent-busters like Gothos, Rake, Raest, etc. I mean, for human, sure, he's about as mean as they come, but...seriously. He's not even playing the same game as the likes of them, let alone the same league, in terms of raw power.

I think he is probably the most powerful human we have seen. Shadowthrone gives Rake pause (admittedly with the Hounds in support) and it does seem Tay is as if not more powerful than him prior Godhood, and I doubt Shadowthrone has much more direct fire-power now. Anyway as I said he is a step down from those top-dogs, but is the pre-eminent mage we have seen. So I feel he is more powerful than QB, unless one of his souls is an Elder God.

On the matter of warrens, I would think Tay has access to D'riss as an 'ex'-high priest of D'rek. He also seems to have extreme mastery of that demon warren, or has mastery enough to summon and control a demon lord whos power is near that of Rake's. As Baruk seems to suggest you can only control demons of at most your equal in power, it sort of suggest Tay is not that far behind Rake, and doubt anyone would argue QB is more powerful than Rake. Especailly considering the Pale enfilade, where Tay is fighting Rake, while at the same time, sneaking up on an Elder God. Well, that is a bit jumbled, but still more evidence to show Tay is a notable, and I personally feel not that far from the top-dogs.

[Illuyankas]

Tays would crush Quick in a one-on-one confrontation, obliterate him completely, grind him into dust. Then when Tays goes home and relaxes, he's utterly unprepared for going to the pantry and finding SOMEONE's replaced all of his food with otataral-imbued scorpions.

Tayschrenn can still outpower Quick Ben, but Quick could survive it and outscheme him later, I'm sure.