[The Seguleh 46th]

I imagine there has already been a poll out there (thinking the March Madness thread covers this fairly well), but i figured i'd put out my own list, now that i finished the very kickass Return of the Crimson Guard finally! Taya was a nice late entry to the series, and as Vorcan's daughter and

Spoiler

the slayer of Laseen

, she definitely adds much intrigue! We also have the return of Topper,

Spoiler

whom i should have seen coming from the Imperial Warren POVs

, but still managed to surprise. Alright.....here's my list:

1. Vorcan - T'orrud Cabal, High Mage, demon (?), former Mistress of the Assassin's Guild of Darujhistan, and a wickedly hot redhead lass to boot! Manages to give the supreme warlord Caladan Brood pause as well at the end of TTH (although maybe i read too much into that icy stare). Seems to be a chess player as well, with her patience and husbanding of resources in TTH. Gets my top nod, although i'm sure many will disagree.
2. Kalam - Hardcore brute force sets him apart from the pack, and the addition of an Otataral longknive to his arsenal really makes him truly dangerous. I would have put him a bit lower (probably 4th or 5th), but the "shaved knuckle in the hole" via Quick Ben gives him precedence over the next two.
3. Laseen - Bare-handed sheer badassery, cold-iron demeanor, and chess-playing skills on par with her old boss Kel make her one fierce ex-serving wench! I think maybe one of the best fights in the series that never happened would have been a duel between her and Dancer! Smear her in Otataral dust, and maybe she puts them all to an early grave.....hmmmm?
4. Dancer/Cotillion - The patron God of Assassins obviously gets his name and place in the pantheon for a reason. Ironically, despite the high praise i heaped on Laseen above, i think Dancer would get the best of her in a drawn-out duel of Spinnock/Kallor proportions.....but Dancer would still fall shortly after from the wounds delivered via Laseen. Really seemed to shine the most when inhabiting Apsalar/Sorry, as Kalam and QB seemed very scared of the little imp, which is an accomplishment in itself
5. Sorry/Apsalar - Shadowdancing tragic Kanese beauty delivers mayhem to the Hounds of Shadow, faces down Kalam (and to a lesser extent QB), and was the former protege/vessel body for the Patron of Assassins. Sadly, no "talent" (on her own anyways....could be wrong here though...) and lack of ambition (not to be translated as as a bad thing) drives her down to the bottom slot of this list.

I'm sure there are other very deserving names/badasses that i left off, such as Rallick Nom, Coil (although i think it was more the

Spoiler

Mockra-shrouded High Mage part of her using her superior magic to overwhelm the Claw operatives than sheer knife-play

), Cowl, Taya, Pearl, etc. But then i say "Fuck it!', it's my list!

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 25 April 2010 - 01:42 AM

[SpectreofEschaton]

As subjective (and, as DoD is happy to tell us at one point, pointless) as such discussions are, the fact that Cotillion isn't at the top of that list is...bizarre to me. I mean, from everything I've read, the guy is on a completely different plane of skill than any other assassin in the series. I mean, that scene where he takes on the Edur? Ring any bells? Show me one instance of any of the others displaying that kind of skill. I mean, Laseen has skill, power, and ingenuity in droves; I'd rate her above Kalam, and Vorcan is a horrendous mage-assassin who'd give any of Rake's posse pause, but...this is Cotillion the Rope we're talking about here. Mr. bullet-time and perform-lobotomies-with-a-rope.

And it's just my opinion, but I personally feel that we haven't seen anything close to what he's really capable of. If he was ST's last resort to keep Icarium from the First Throne...well, I guess that could imply that he wouldn't want to risk his closest ally, but to me, it shows that he was about to get serious, enough throwing pawns at the thing, send in someone who actually had a shot of killing the bastard. Too bad it never came to that.

Likewise for Apsalar too, though I think she at least belongs in such a ranking, even if its in the #1 spot. Cotillion, IMO, is simply too far beyond any assassin we've seen so far. (Even the new one in DoD, I'm sad to admit, as he's freaking badass and also belongs on this list)

[The Seguleh 46th]

 SpectreofEschaton, on 25 April 2010 - 03:48 AM, said:

As subjective (and, as DoD is happy to tell us at one point, pointless) as such discussions are, the fact that Cotillion isn't at the top of that list is...bizarre to me. I mean, from everything I've read, the guy is on a completely different plane of skill than any other assassin in the series. I mean, that scene where he takes on the Edur? Ring any bells? Show me one instance of any of the others displaying that kind of skill. I mean, Laseen has skill, power, and ingenuity in droves; I'd rate her above Kalam, and Vorcan is a horrendous mage-assassin who'd give any of Rake's posse pause, but...this is Cotillion the Rope we're talking about here. Mr. bullet-time and perform-lobotomies-with-a-rope.

And it's just my opinion, but I personally feel that we haven't seen anything close to what he's really capable of. If he was ST's last resort to keep Icarium from the First Throne...well, I guess that could imply that he wouldn't want to risk his closest ally, but to me, it shows that he was about to get serious, enough throwing pawns at the thing, send in someone who actually had a shot of killing the bastard. Too bad it never came to that.

Likewise for Apsalar too, though I think she at least belongs in such a ranking, even if its in the #1 spot. Cotillion, IMO, is simply too far beyond any assassin we've seen so far. (Even the new one in DoD, I'm sad to admit, as he's freaking badass and also belongs on this list)

Very solid points! Vorcan to me anyway, just seems so much a wildcard, and despite not really getting to see her in action all that much, i have this feeling she is the deadliest of them all. Kalam was at first glance ranked too high, but having QB in a pinch for a two-on-one against any foe gives him the (arguably undeserved in this company, i will give you that) nod for the #2 slot on my list. Laseen and Dancer could go either way, but that blue chick was damn near invicible in RotCG! Even Dancer the man was reluctant to fight her back when he thought he maybe should have (thinking it was her decision to send the T'lan Imass into Aren or something along those lines, IIRC, that almost drove each of them to blades)....yet he didn't. That could have been merely an Imperial decision, but i still think he had reservations as well. Apsalar.....well, she's Apsalar!

[Bauchelain the Evil]

I don't know if you read NoK but

Spoiler

basically the night of the assasination Dancer fought against Laseen(probably assassin number two, or thee if we count Apsalar), Topper(the third asassin of the Empire), plus some 20 Claws. All this while also defending a powerless Kellanved. Only Topper and Laseen survived and they were badly injured.

If we also assume that Dancer and Kel had no real reason to win the fight(they had an appointment with Ascension) and as such Dancer wasn't being really at the top of his abilities, I really think that proves that Dancer is without doubt well above everyone else as an assassin.

EDIT: Spoilered the post as Silencer suggested although seeing how what happened in NoK is common knowledge and that the only thing it explains is the how, I didn't think it was necessary.

This post has been edited by Bauchelain the Evil: 25 April 2010 - 01:15 PM

[Silencer]

Possum also walked away from that fight (wounded), BtE, and you should probably spoiler those points...

I think the flaw in any ranking is that we just can't compare. The NoK event may have been one giant stage show, after all.

Vorcan is a pure mage, really. She puts her talents to the use of assassinating people, but if she came up against Otataral she would, from all appearances be nigh incapacitated, or should she come up against a superior mage her career would be over. Remember that the entire Daru guild was leaning heavily on magic until Rallick took out Ocelot, and though none of them knew of the Otataral he had (hell, he didn't really know himself), it puts into perspective just why Laseen uses it.

Kalam is one of the deadliest bastards around, but this comes down to a question of: is he really an assassin? A man of unconventional means, most of the times we've seen him fight are straight-up protracted brawls, albeit featuring heavy use of crossbows and short blades. While this is great for comparison in a duelling scenario, it doesn't really speak to his ability as an assassin in the traditional sense. And remember, he walked away from the scene in HoC where Cotillion aided him in awe of the God's abilities.

Laseen is one tough piece of work, but she pales in comparison to Dancer. Given, as BtE states above,

Spoiler

with at least ten, handpicked Claws, plus two Clawmasters helping her, she couldn't take out either Dancer (pre-ascension) or the crippled, Otataral-negated Kellanved whom he had to protect...

Cowl obviously, given events in RotCG, is lower on the food chain than both Dancer and Topper, and I'd wager that Topper is still a few rungs down from Dancer again.

Taya may knife Laseen, but that's after the woman has fought her way through an entire host of Veils and Avowed, as well as traitorous Claws, and finally, though perhaps foolishly given her previous intelligence, lets her guard down, and even then it's just a lightning-strike-retreat (perhaps the closest to a true assassination we've seen in the series!) job.

Apsalar is carbon-copy Cotillion, without all of his memories/experiences fully unlocked, so I rank her just beneath him in ability (and the line in Bonehunters is far, far too vague to be cited as a reason for her being exactly equal or superior to him!).

I, however, cannot wait to see what Cotillion does in tCG:
[tCG spoiler]

Spoiler

The head cocked, strands of hair dangling and drifting. “Arrogance?”
“Competence,” Cotllion snapped in reply. “Doubt me at your peril.”

[anothevilbadguy]

 The Seguleh 46th, on 25 April 2010 - 01:31 AM, said:

I imagine there has already been a poll out there (thinking the March Madness thread covers this fairly well), but i figured i'd put out my own list, now that i finished the very kickass Return of the Crimson Guard finally! Taya was a nice late entry to the series, and as Vorcan's daughter and

Spoiler

the slayer of Laseen

, she definitely adds much intrigue! We also have the return of Topper,

Spoiler

whom i should have seen coming from the Imperial Warren POVs

, but still managed to surprise. Alright.....here's my list:

1. Vorcan - T'orrud Cabal, High Mage, demon (?), former Mistress of the Assassin's Guild of Darujhistan, and a wickedly hot redhead lass to boot! Manages to give the supreme warlord Caladan Brood pause as well at the end of TTH (although maybe i read too much into that icy stare). Seems to be a chess player as well, with her patience and husbanding of resources in TTH. Gets my top nod, although i'm sure many will disagree.
2. Kalam - Hardcore brute force sets him apart from the pack, and the addition of an Otataral longknive to his arsenal really makes him truly dangerous. I would have put him a bit lower (probably 4th or 5th), but the "shaved knuckle in the hole" via Quick Ben gives him precedence over the next two.
3. Laseen - Bare-handed sheer badassery, cold-iron demeanor, and chess-playing skills on par with her old boss Kel make her one fierce ex-serving wench! I think maybe one of the best fights in the series that never happened would have been a duel between her and Dancer! Smear her in Otataral dust, and maybe she puts them all to an early grave.....hmmmm?
4. Dancer/Cotillion - The patron God of Assassins obviously gets his name and place in the pantheon for a reason. Ironically, despite the high praise i heaped on Laseen above, i think Dancer would get the best of her in a drawn-out duel of Spinnock/Kallor proportions.....but Dancer would still fall shortly after from the wounds delivered via Laseen. Really seemed to shine the most when inhabiting Apsalar/Sorry, as Kalam and QB seemed very scared of the little imp, which is an accomplishment in itself
5. Sorry/Apsalar - Shadowdancing tragic Kanese beauty delivers mayhem to the Hounds of Shadow, faces down Kalam (and to a lesser extent QB), and was the former protege/vessel body for the Patron of Assassins. Sadly, no "talent" (on her own anyways....could be wrong here though...) and lack of ambition (not to be translated as as a bad thing) drives her down to the bottom slot of this list.

I'm sure there are other very deserving names/badasses that i left off, such as Rallick Nom, Coil (although i think it was more the

Spoiler

Mockra-shrouded High Mage part of her using her superior magic to overwhelm the Claw operatives than sheer knife-play

), Cowl, Taya, Pearl, etc. But then i say "Fuck it!', it's my list!

From the assassins we have seen I think it is undoubted that Cotillion is the best. He is the God of Assassins, but even prior to that position I think there is enough evidence to show he would have anyway (Apsalar maybe).

It would seem Apsalar as a near copy of him should take second place.

After that there are quite a few others who could be third: Laseen, Vorcan, Topper, Kalam or Cowl. Those guys the most deadly anyway, but in different ways so it is really hard to compare them. On Taya it is really hard to judge as also she has been shown to do is one lucky shot. Pearl is also up there, but seemingly more on planning/trickery rather than straight up brawl. There are also a number of others who we just don't know enough about, like Ammeron, the still living day-to-day head of the Talon. I think the only thing that is certain (well as certain as these comparisons can be) is that Cotillion is the best, and Apsalar is the only one even competing

[The Seguleh 46th]

Lots of love for Dancer/Cotillion here i see! Lol. On the NOK spoilers, i guess i will have to reread that part again. I just remember the scene

Spoiler

where Kiska is in the room meeting Laseen for the first time, not the brawl that ensued and/or happened previously.

To be fair here, consider Kalam knocked down to #5 and everyone else moving up one slot.

And if ya didn't notice, i did have Dancer beating Laseen in my poll summary, but still, maybe i should have retitled thread, Which Assassin would you most like to have in your Employ?

[Silencer]

You'd want to have any of these guys in your employ? XD

Chances of them betraying you to gain power? 100%

And in that regard, I'd put Vorcan at the top of the list for scheming betrayals.

The part in NoK isn't described in the book, only the aftermath. Even so, what happened is quite easy to deduce, even if the circumstances under which it occurred are not.

[Ulrik]

In my employ? Rallick! Solid power, no ambitions...great!

But as one time job - Dancer.

[The Seguleh 46th]

 Ulrik, on 26 April 2010 - 12:49 PM, said:

In my employ? Rallick! Solid power, no ambitions...great!

But as one time job - Dancer.

Good point on Rallick!

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

 The Seguleh 46th, on 27 April 2010 - 04:27 PM, said:

 Ulrik, on 26 April 2010 - 12:49 PM, said:

In my employ? Rallick! Solid power, no ambitions...great!

But as one time job - Dancer.

Good point on Rallick!

Rallick killed his last boss.

[hmqb]

hmm let me get this straight you put the freakin god of assasians fourth? and the person he possesed and hinted even maybe surpassed him 5th... It is said in the book that Dancer could have beaten Kalam and you ranked him 2nd and also Sorry kind of did better then kalam in the bone hunters

[Harvester]

I guess it's not a list based on prowess but on his view on their badassery.

[Aptorian]

Well, there's an Assassin in DOD that arguably should take the prize. My money is on him.

[Hinter]

 Aptorian, on 15 May 2010 - 06:10 PM, said:

Well, there's an Assassin in DOD that arguably should take the prize. My money is on him.

Why? It failed.

[Aptorian]

Well my money would still be on him in a one on one fight between a couple of master assassins.

[Hinter]

 Aptorian, on 15 May 2010 - 11:12 PM, said:

Well my money would still be on him in a one on one fight between a couple of master assassins.

This being an ROTCG forum perhaps it/he/she should be discussed elswhere.

[Aptorian]

Hince me keeping my answers vague.

[Silencer]

Cotillion would still beat him, imo. Unless we're talking sheer badassery, that is.

[The Seguleh 46th]

Finally finished my reread of GotM. Hard to take Vorcan off the top slot in my list, despite the cult-like following of Cotillion side of the debate steadily growing on me (fuckers....you're wearing me down here!). She absolutely owned ("pwned" is maybe the right word here? never understood that computer term, but oh well) the Torrud Cabal and dismissed Serrat like she was a mere annoyance. Still, hard to argue with all the debate offered above. Seems each of these badasses all have there own degrees of success, so to even have made a list like this in the first place was mostly an exercise in boredom. Laseen smeared in Otataral could possibly beat here, sure. The Rope with ST at his side. For sure! QB and his twelve Warrens? Possibly. Still, gonna stick with the Vorcan love, simply because i can!