[cerveza_fiesta]

Please don't spoil ahead too badly here...I'm not done DoD, just wanted to express my, erm, I-don't-know-what at the scene I read last night.

The whole scene in the barghast camp where Hetan gets hobbled....disturbed me.

Being a child of the 80s and 90s, violent movies are my bread and buddah, and I consider myself very hardened to images shown in fictional violence. I mean, I can simultaneously watch all 4 rambos, alien 3 and saving private ryan while playing the airport scene from Modern Warfare, shooting all of the innocent civilians and not bat an eye.

Hetan hobbling scene however, equals a disturbed C_F

I read it last night before bed and the scene really stuck in my mind. I was struggling with it after lights-out for a couple hours before I could get to sleep.

I'm fine now of course but its really refreshing to be hit with some fictional violence once in awhile that can really make you stop ant think and feel for the fictional people involved. Last time, as I recall, was reading deadhouse gates.

Steven Erikson 2,
C_F - zero

Anyways, terrific book this Dust of Dreams. Really digging it so far despite the slow start.

EDIT

And to end off that solid chapter with TOOL FUCKING TURNING T'LAN IMASS AGAIN was too much for me...I had to stop reading. Too fucking cool.

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 19 April 2010 - 04:20 PM

[Abyss]

All i'm going to spoilerlessly say is keep reading.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Oh I will...no worries on that.

Just one of those points where I knew if I read the next chapter it wouldn't be as good....though in view of lost sleep, I probably should have kept going.

Kind of like how Niel Armstrong really should have killed himself on the moon.

kind of.

[Giles]

Your definitely not the only one on that scene. Really got to me that part.

[cerveza_fiesta]

I'm still trying to figure out what it was about the whole thing that really got me though.

I mean compared to other violent bits in the series, I devoured tenescowri vs. Caputstan/greyswords/gruntle, and was completely pulled to other extremely violent bits like Kalam vs. The entire effing claw army.......but not (for lack of a better term) *bothered* by it.

Maybe the whole rape aspect ontop of the physical trauma. And the fact that she didn't do anything to deserve it. And the fact that it is such an over the top ridiculous punishment for anything regardless.

And EVERYBODY is in on it for some reason.

And the part where SE said the women take her after the first dozen or so rapes and do whatever they do to her while her body heals....but gave no details on exactly what...as though it gets worse than massive gang rape + no feet + complete outcasting + husband dead + children murdured.

Not making light of it either...seriously got me with this one SE. Been thinking about it all day.

*squirm*

[Seras]

 cerveza_fiesta, on 19 April 2010 - 04:18 PM, said:

And to end off that solid chapter with TOOL FUCKING TURNING T'LAN IMASS AGAIN was too much for me...I had to stop reading. Too fucking cool.

Agreed, that part was epic

Dawn crept to the horizon, bled colour into the sky.
And a T'lan Imass rose from the ground. Walked, with slow, uneven strides, to the fire-annealed flint sword left lying close to the Barghast pyre. A withered but oversized hand reached down and closed about the grip, lifting the weapon clear.
Onos Tool'an faced southeast. And then set out.
He had a people to kill.

The thought of Tool cutting down thousands of Barghast all by himself kept me reading through the night, that and the fact that he was angry. He destroyed the undead Che'Malle in MoI when he was pissed, it left me wondering how the Barghast would fare against angry-Tool.

[cerveza_fiesta]

ha...exactly what I was thinking. Very much looking forward to whatever happens to the poor soul.

Whether its the deliberate bits-chopping of the remaining whitefaces...

or a cusser and a curse from Fiddler like "fucking imass" or something like that.

both equally glorious.

Leaving now...spoils are too close. I can smell their putrid spoiled stench. I want NONE OF IT!

[Eispeis]

 

 cerveza_fiesta, on 19 April 2010 - 04:18 PM, said:

Hetan hobbling scene however, equals a disturbed C_F

I know what you mean. I think it's not only the physical violation, but the complete mental teardown as well. She knows what's in store for her and she's culturally bound to comply as well as physically incapable to rebel against her fate. I mean, to "lift up to accomodate even dogs" (paraphrase). It's just... gah!


I've only had a similar reaction while reading once, and that was with American Psycho. The scene involved acid and PVC pipes... f**k me.

[foolio]

Quote

The scene involved acid and PVC pipes... f**k me.

I am shuddering at the thought. Oh, the horror.

And for the record, I have said it before, I cant take anymore rape scenes. I just cant I tell you.

[Aptorian]

Ah yes, the famous Golden Hamster scene.

It manages to be even more disturbing that Goodkinds "rats under a burning bucket".

[foolio]

apt, how can I get my hands on tha Giff that you have as your avatar? Please, I beg you.

[Aptorian]

If you're using a PC/Windows, right click my avatar and choose what ever version of properties it pops up. In there the address should be available. That or you can just click copy on it.

[Illuyankas]

http://imgur.com/gAcuf.gif

[foolio]

 Illuyankas, on 20 April 2010 - 07:46 PM, said:

http://imgur.com/gAcuf.gif

thank you so very much. I am obviously a bit slow. Thanks again.

[KeithF]

To be honest, the hobbling scene didn't destroy me as much as some, partly because it had been foreshadowed to the third degree. I was actually more angry at that plotline for making Hetan into such a helpless victim unable to stop such a horrible (and, as noted, heavily foreshadowed) thing happening to her, when she seemed so badass and pro-active in MoI.

The whole Barghast plotline in DoD left a bad taste in my mouth, actually, both in terms of the events being (as presumably intended) tough to read and perhaps from a storytelling point of view. The multifarious Barghast chieftains and their wives seemed so small and petty in their stupid ambitions and squabbling, especially set against the backdrop of the other stuff going on. I'm not sure to what extent Erikson intended to frustrate the reader, but I don't think it worked perfectly - I didn't really feel the need to know quite so much about all these morons fighting ugly little battles over scraps of power while the fate of the world hung in the balance.

[foolio]

 KeithF, on 29 April 2010 - 09:11 PM, said:

To be honest, the hobbling scene didn't destroy me as much as some, partly because it had been foreshadowed to the third degree. I was actually more angry at that plotline for making Hetan into such a helpless victim unable to stop such a horrible (and, as noted, heavily foreshadowed) thing happening to her, when she seemed so badass and pro-active in MoI.

The whole Barghast plotline in DoD left a bad taste in my mouth, actually, both in terms of the events being (as presumably intended) tough to read and perhaps from a storytelling point of view. The multifarious Barghast chieftains and their wives seemed so small and petty in their stupid ambitions and squabbling, especially set against the backdrop of the other stuff going on. I'm not sure to what extent Erikson intended to frustrate the reader, but I don't think it worked perfectly - I didn't really feel the need to know quite so much about all these morons fighting ugly little battles over scraps of power while the fate of the world hung in the balance.

Man, I think you summed it up nicely. Hetan went from a take charge warrior to a priss that gets manhandled and mutilated by a couple of angry housewives...she knew it was coming and still did nothing to defend herself. rep for you.

[Dutch]

 Illuyankas, on 20 April 2010 - 07:46 PM, said:

http://imgur.com/gAcuf.gif

Epic

[HoosierDaddy]

 KeithF, on 29 April 2010 - 09:11 PM, said:

To be honest, the hobbling scene didn't destroy me as much as some, partly because it had been foreshadowed to the third degree. I was actually more angry at that plotline for making Hetan into such a helpless victim unable to stop such a horrible (and, as noted, heavily foreshadowed) thing happening to her, when she seemed so badass and pro-active in MoI.

The whole Barghast plotline in DoD left a bad taste in my mouth, actually, both in terms of the events being (as presumably intended) tough to read and perhaps from a storytelling point of view. The multifarious Barghast chieftains and their wives seemed so small and petty in their stupid ambitions and squabbling, especially set against the backdrop of the other stuff going on. I'm not sure to what extent Erikson intended to frustrate the reader, but I don't think it worked perfectly - I didn't really feel the need to know quite so much about all these morons fighting ugly little battles over scraps of power while the fate of the world hung in the balance.

I think you nailed the point in dismissing it, actually.

People live their lives day to day, for the most part. It's simply one step after another for armies on the march, and one day after the other for sedimentary lifestyles for most people. The Barghast are a wandering clan built on warfare. They were brought to their "homeland" and were suddenly bereft of the leadership that brought them there. Tool was a warrior, not a leader. He followed the rest of the T'lan into eternity as opposed to listening to his sister, didn't he?

The Barghast were adrift in an unknown "homeland" without "leadership." Is it any wonder they splintered? Is it any wonder they questioned Tool's leadership? Who gives a damn about the world when there is land and power to be achieved?

The Barghast never gave a damn about the war against the Crippled God, or the War against the Elder Gods. They cared only about THEIR gods, and THEIR land, and nothing more.

[Ulrik]

 KeithF, on 29 April 2010 - 09:11 PM, said:

The multifarious Barghast chieftains and their wives seemed so small and petty in their stupid ambitions and squabbling, especially set against the backdrop of the other stuff going on. ... I don't think it worked perfectly - I didn't really feel the need to know quite so much about all these morons fighting ugly little battles over scraps of power while the fate of the world hung in the balance.

Welcome to the desert of real:) Its natural. Firstly look into MBoF:
Does Mallick, Korbolo, Laseen, Cowl... gave a shit about future of world. It doesnt make difference if you are tribal leader of small Teblor village or ruler of solid kingdom. Most of them are selfish (its natural) morons interested in their gains, their future. And its very small vision of future. Thats why is Tavore with her style "Noone will ever know about us...but we will do it" so special.

And in real world...well...history speaks, or rather screams really loudly:)

[Dutch]

Back on topic.

It got to me too, even on the reread while I knew it would happen.