[Tapper]

masan, on 13 April 2010 - 07:11 PM, said:

Interesting terminology Tap, saying priests are, for want of a better word, employees implies that they should be bound by the relevant legislation. In the UK for example this would necessitate them undertaking a CRB check......, that would be interesting.

Unfortunately, the wording was my own and not the churches.

[Gem Windcaster]

masan, on 13 April 2010 - 05:44 PM, said:

I normally avoid religious threads like the plague as they are far too frustrating but I have been watching this thread for a while now and have found it fascinating. Watching Gem having a go at Morgoth for "semantics" and SM for "assuming", whilst simultaneously "assuming" the meaning behind Tiste's post and using first class wordsmithery to misinterpret other posts and the entire premise of the thread has been very entertaining.

There's a difference between assumption and interpretation.

masan, on 13 April 2010 - 05:44 PM, said:

Whilst I have no desire to fan any flames Gem, your constant unwillingness to accept the possibility that you might be slightly off target with your premise in this thread does you little credit and if anything is starting to resemble trolling.

It seems you do have a desire for flames. First off, what do you mean by 'off target'? If you mean that I've been off topic, I am not more off topic than when SM made his comment about religious people being on the same side, or whatever he really meant. I am constantly willing to accept I'm wrong, but I am not going to sit and accept to be subject to another persons prejudice against religious people or whatever crap people come up with, just so they can feel they have their world view intact.

I pretty much agree with the conclusions most people draw in this thread regarding justice, so I'll just leave it at that.

[stone monkey]

Moving on before my blood pressure spikes...

Given that the consensus amongst some would appear to be that merely voicing support for an initiative that he didn't come up with himself is an evil minded stunt on Dawkins' part, I wonder if more of our posters would like to take a crack at Geoffrey Robertson's motivations?

Any takers?

[masan's saddle]

I'm sorry Gem but by stating that I do "desire flames", even after I have CLEARLY STATED that it was not my intention just illustrates my point. Or am I merely interpreting your assumption incorrectly......

By "off target" I am referring to the point made, most forcibly by Illy but by others also, that not only has this potential legal action got nothing really to do with Dawkins (despite your insistence), but that the primary discussion should be about the alleged abuse of children by priests and how a possible investigation might effect the pope and the wider church in general, not about alleged "point scoring" by fundie atheists (whatever that means).

Shall we move on ?

[Cougar]

Yes you should.

[Adjutant Stormy~]

Well that was a highly typical 30 post battle for even-tangentially-religion-related- threads.

I think it's an interesting point-maker, but not any kind of effective action against pedos. You can't stop 'em with words.

EDIT: maybe closer to 100.

This post has been edited by Adjutant Stormy: 13 April 2010 - 08:40 PM

[RodeoRanch]

Richard Dawkins makes me laugh so much. The man is just fantastic. I love reading his stuff.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

stone monkey, on 13 April 2010 - 08:25 PM, said:

Moving on before my blood pressure spikes...

Given that the consensus amongst some would appear to be that merely voicing support for an initiative that he didn't come up with himself is an evil minded stunt on Dawkins' part, I wonder if more of our posters would like to take a crack at Geoffrey Robertson's motivations?

Any takers?

Um....he's the world's biggest paedo and he's sick and tired of the Catholic chhurch cutting in on his action?

[Terez]

Tapper, on 13 April 2010 - 06:27 PM, said:

Jesus was very big on forgiving others their sins, or so I heard. Apparently, that also includes forgiving the molesting of children.

Yeah.

Luke 17:1-2 said:

It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

[Terez]

Cougar, on 13 April 2010 - 06:00 PM, said:

Terez, on 13 April 2010 - 09:24 AM, said:

Gothos, on 12 April 2010 - 12:46 PM, said:

Looks like Gem just went for the "Most Negrepped Post In The Boards" award. Winner?

I got about that many neg reps for my grammar nazi post in the home skool thread, but I got so many pos reps for it that I think it ended up coming in at -2.

Gem has 8 negs' for the above mentioned scorn magnet.

Terez's grammar lesson in the 'Home Skool' thread garnered 5 negs and 4 pos reps.

Not even close really. I'd love to know if any other post can beat -8, let alone net -8!

Good to know. At the time, it seemed like the neg reps just went on forevvverrr. But the pos reps made it all good, even though it ended up net negative.

[Aptorian]

Not satisfied with the current wave of criticism coming their way the "vice pope" now turns his attention to the Homosexuals...

http://www.reuters.c...E63D24520100414

Quote

Vatican under fire for linking gays to pedophilia(Reuters) - Gay groups and politicians condemned Pope Benedict's number two on Wednesday for calling homosexuality a "pathology" and linking it directly to sexual abuse of children.

World

The comments made by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone during a visit to Chile, and the controversy they caused, were splashed on mainstream Italian newspapers on Wednesday.

The French foreign ministry and some Catholic blogs that support the pope also condemned the cardinal's remarks.

As the scandal over sexual abuse of children by priests has spread, some in the Catholic Church have called for a review of the Church's rule that prohibits priests from marrying, saying marriage would allow priests to enjoy a healthy sex life.

Bertone, the Vatican secretary of state, who is sometimes called the "deputy pope," told a news conference in Santiago on Monday:

"Many psychologists and psychiatrists have shown that there is no link between celibacy and pedophilia, but many others have shown, I have recently been told, that there is a relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia."

"This pathology is one that touches all categories of people, and priests to a lesser degree in percentage terms," he said. "The behavior of the priests in this case, the negative behavior, is very serious, is scandalous."

Gay rights activists reacted with derision and outrage.

"This is a scientific absurdity. The World Health Organization calls homosexuality a variation of human behavior. It is pedophilia that is a pathology, a crime, not homosexuality," said Franco Grillini, a former parliamentarian who was at the vanguard of Italy's gay rights movement.

"Because they have their own problems with the abuse crisis and don't know how to handle it, they are trying to pass their 'cross' from their shoulders on to ours," Grillini told Reuters.

CATHOLIC BLOG CRITICISES

The French foreign ministry called it an "unacceptable linkage that we condemn."

Some pro-Vatican Catholic blogs said more controversy was the last thing the Vatican needed.

"Pedophilia and homosexuality: Bertone trips up -- again -- on gays," read a post in the Italian-language "Blog of the Friends of Pope Ratzinger."

It said the pope might now have to "clean up the mess made by his right-hand man."

Vatican spokesman Rev. Federico Lombardi issued a statement in which he tried to douse the fire caused by the latest mishap.

He said Church leaders were not trying to make "general affirmations of a specific psychological nature" and offered Church statistics that showed that two-thirds of incidents of abuse of adolescents by priests involved homosexual priests.

A front-page editorial in Rome's left-leaning La Repubblica newspaper titled "The Confusion in the Church" said Bertone's comments would end up causing the Church more "harm to itself, not homosexuals."

Bertone was also criticized by Alessandra Mussolini, a right-wing parliamentarian whose grandfather, wartime Fascist dictator Benito Mussolini, sent gays into internal exile.

"You can't link sexual orientation to pedophilia ... this link risks becoming dangerously misleading for the protection of children," Mussolini said.

ArciLesbica, Italy's main lesbian rights group, accused the Vatican of using "violent and deceptive statements" to divert attention from its abuse scandal and said Italian parents should consider removing their children from Church-run institutions.

The pope did not make any direct reference to the crisis facing the Church during his weekly general audience.

He may address the issue when he visits Malta this weekend. Ten Maltese men who are suing three priests for alleged child abuse have requested a private meeting with the pope.

(Writing by Philip Pullella; additional reporting by Crispian Balmer in Paris and Simon Gardner in Santiago; editing by Tim Pearce)

[RodeoRanch]

They just keep digging the hole they're in.

[caladanbrood]

That's an impressive effort of self-destruction there.

[teholbeddict]

They're so ignorant it's sickening. Way to point the finger and not take responsibility for your own actions.

[Aptorian]

It was pretty awkward when they, early on, compared the anger with the church - for protecting paedophiles - with anti-Semitism... The Jews were not happy there at all.

[McLovin]

Bertone's statement just proves how little the Church gets it. It's not about what caused the molestations. It's about the cover-up.

[Powder]

And this is why it sucks to be a christian on the intrawebs we all get lumped into one category of 'those people' and then pedo-bears show up in our email's....

-Powder

[Sinisdar Toste]

im quite certain that nobody here is lumping all christians in with pedophiliac roman catholic priests... but i guess you were talking about other places... maybe, i hope?

[Terez]

Yeah, most of Christendom is independent from the institution in question. No one here seems to be confused about that. A lot of Catholics seem to be confused about it though. Like they don't realize that all their sacraments and whatevers are tied up in the institution and the idea that the clergy are somehow divinely-appointed arbiters of faith and forgiveness. The institution is now quite obviously not divinely-anything, so I wonder how come there aren't like a billion more Protestants and/or atheists/whatever than there were a few years ago.

[Darkwatch]

To be honest most Catholics I know recognize the Church as the religious authority for the sacraments, but not for the spiritual aspect.
I should also mention that a lot of Catholics probably understand that not all Catholic priests are pedophiles.
Then there's the fact that not all Catholics are as hardcore as I've seen portrayed in popular media (Simpsons, Jasper Carrot, Internet). In fact I think most are insanely lax about the whole Church (the institution not the scandal) thing.