[Telas]

Sorry, got caught up, but now I'm fully read up.

I can understand both sides of this massive reveal-fest, but I'm unsure as to why people are willing to trust Sorrit? The whole 'oh, I have so very little chance of winning, but I can help you win' spiel is so overplayed (if you'll excuse the pun). He has a point in that his chance to win is miniscule, however his fatalistic attitude is really rubbing me the wrong way. If, as a leader, he can ignore guards and heals, can we really take the chance that he won't be able to take out the leaders? If I'm not mistaken, all the leaders have been identified, and we don't know if Rashan (?) still has his BP. Even if he does, and Sorrit takes it out, there could be vigs around that a player could use to take them out, then bam, Sorrit wins. I understand the logic behind it, but in my experience Mafia players never give up like Sorrit has without some form of plan.

Sorrit is the wild card in my opinion. Best to remove him and keep a (relatively) level playing field.

EDIT - oops

Vote Sorrit

This post has been edited by Telas: 11 April 2010 - 10:48 AM

[Ampelas]

I find it odd that Rashan revealed as a leader when he was under virtually no pressure.

[Serc]

Ampelas, on 11 April 2010 - 10:58 AM, said:

I find it odd that Rashan revealed as a leader when he was under virtually no pressure.

He's not actually the leader. He's just jumped on my misinterpretation of him being found as a Pinhead to try and protect his leader, I bet.

[Ampelas]

So if the pinhead leader hasn't been outed, you agree that there's no need to panic-lynch Sorrit at this point.

[Serc]

Ampelas, on 11 April 2010 - 11:17 AM, said:

So if the pinhead leader hasn't been outed, you agree that there's no need to panic-lynch Sorrit at this point.

Panic lynch? There's no panic. Once Sorrit has been killed, we can get back to killing each other pleasantly. Stop trying to keep him alive because of the delusion he'll somehow reduce my team's abilities to kill you, HE'S AGAINST US BOTH.

[Telas]

Ampelas, on 11 April 2010 - 11:17 AM, said:

So if the pinhead leader hasn't been outed, you agree that there's no need to panic-lynch Sorrit at this point.

Getting rid of a person who is unequivocally against everyone is hardly panic.

[Ampelas]

Off to watch the footy, back later.

[Sorrit]

Hello Telas, please tell me how I've given up? I never said that, nor would I.

My scenario is true. You vote me off - a known quantity - and you risk losing your leader tonight with no recourse.

What I was trying to say was, if I was just some lone faction who had to remain hidden, I had NO chance of winning. That should be pretty obvious. So my point was, I was given a little bit of a boost in that I can recruit (in a limited fashion) members of a faction who has lost their leader.

Meaning, if you don't lynch me, and you end up losing your leader tonight then you could possibly be recruited to win. Jigsaw keeps those who survive his trials as assistants - but that's a limited assistanceship I will admit. I think it's just meant to give me a mini voting block if I made it to end game - which I didn't. But that doesn't mean that it is useless, therefore I'm using it as leverage.


What I'm appealing to is your sense of odds and the desire to win. Lynching me today does NOTHING to improve your odds. You need to see the results of the night 4 kills to have a better sense of where things stand. The chances of me winning tonight are not good because the chances of both leaders dying is very small.

I know my ass is on the line, but just looking at it in the simplist terms (usually the most likely terms, you have to admit) lynching me at this point doesn't help you, AND if you lose your leader, you'll probably be thinking Oooh, I need to take him up on his offer.


In a nutshell:

1) you don't need to lynch me tonight because the odds of both leaders dying is incredibly small given BP's and obfuscation.

2) If YOUR leader happens to be the one that dies, you have a potential extra pathway to a victory

3) I'm not giving up, I'm trying to explain how I can be useful - and of course that is a bid for my own possible victory as well.

4) I realize my offer is going to grate against existing leaders. They want to lynch me no matter what because my victory conditions obviously mean they can't win. But that doesn't mean YOU can't win. The opposing leader/team is more of a threat at this point (NIGHT 4)

5) If it WAS endgame, you should lynch me in a heartbeat because at that point you should be able to pull off a win as a faction. That is NOT a given at this point in the game - it's too early.

Think of it this way, it doesn't hurt you to continue trying to find the opposing faction's leader. Lynching me today, rather than getting new information, leaves you vulnerable tonight.

You'll have more information to work with on Day 5 if you don't lynch me now. Kill me then if you want, but if your leader dies tonight, I guarantee you'll be wishing I was around.

[Serc]

Sorrit, on 11 April 2010 - 01:01 PM, said:

Hello Telas, please tell me how I've given up? I never said that, nor would I.

My scenario is true. You vote me off - a known quantity - and you risk losing your leader tonight with no recourse.

What I was trying to say was, if I was just some lone faction who had to remain hidden, I had NO chance of winning. That should be pretty obvious. So my point was, I was given a little bit of a boost in that I can recruit (in a limited fashion) members of a faction who has lost their leader.

Meaning, if you don't lynch me, and you end up losing your leader tonight then you could possibly be recruited to win. Jigsaw keeps those who survive his trials as assistants - but that's a limited assistanceship I will admit. I think it's just meant to give me a mini voting block if I made it to end game - which I didn't. But that doesn't mean that it is useless, therefore I'm using it as leverage.


What I'm appealing to is your sense of odds and the desire to win. Lynching me today does NOTHING to improve your odds. You need to see the results of the night 4 kills to have a better sense of where things stand. The chances of me winning tonight are not good because the chances of both leaders dying is very small.

I know my ass is on the line, but just looking at it in the simplist terms (usually the most likely terms, you have to admit) lynching me at this point doesn't help you, AND if you lose your leader, you'll probably be thinking Oooh, I need to take him up on his offer.


In a nutshell:

1) you don't need to lynch me tonight because the odds of both leaders dying is incredibly small given BP's and obfuscation.

2) If YOUR leader happens to be the one that dies, you have a potential extra pathway to a victory

3) I'm not giving up, I'm trying to explain how I can be useful - and of course that is a bid for my own possible victory as well.

4) I realize my offer is going to grate against existing leaders. They want to lynch me no matter what because my victory conditions obviously mean they can't win. But that doesn't mean YOU can't win. The opposing leader/team is more of a threat at this point (NIGHT 4)

5) If it WAS endgame, you should lynch me in a heartbeat because at that point you should be able to pull off a win as a faction. That is NOT a given at this point in the game - it's too early.

Think of it this way, it doesn't hurt you to continue trying to find the opposing faction's leader. Lynching me today, rather than getting new information, leaves you vulnerable tonight.

You'll have more information to work with on Day 5 if you don't lynch me now. Kill me then if you want, but if your leader dies tonight, I guarantee you'll be wishing I was around.

Ah. It's fairly clear, then, that what you really want is a leader dead in order to have a larger recruit pool tonight. As I'm outed, I'm the obvious choice for you to manipulate a lynch of. You are quite transparent.

[Sorrit]

Actually, if you follow my logic, people should be lynching Rashan since he's the more likely to be a fake leader.

Obviously I'd rather have you dead since I KNOW you're a leader, but I don't have that kind of luxery at the moment.

Everything hinges on the NA's tonight, and all I'm asking for is the time to determine if the NA's put me, and anyone who loses their leader, in a position to win or not.

[Alkend]

Hmm see now I'm a little torn, if Rashan isn't a leader then we still have an unknown leader out there, although it seemed like he was a leader, but I didn't do the maths behind it.

Since Saw is a series of movies from the 2000's I am unconvinced Sorrit is actually Jigsaw and is lying through his butt to us. Which is understandable. However I'd rather not see him get another night action at this point, at least with the leaders we have reasonable known quantities.

[Ampelas]

Sorrit, on 11 April 2010 - 01:01 PM, said:

I know my ass is on the line, but just looking at it in the simplist terms (usually the most likely terms, you have to admit) lynching me at this point doesn't help you, AND if you lose your leader, you'll probably be thinking Oooh, I need to take him up on his offer.

This is convincing me to switch my vote to you.

[Sorrit]

Actually, if you think about it, it's a poetic handoff from old slasher flicks to new. I suppose I could have been Michael Meyers or something, but that wouldn't make sense from a recruitment aspect.

And you are mistaken Alkend, I'm the known quantity. My winning conditions are clear. I'm in the open. Just look at the logic of what I'm saying, that's all I'm sayin'.


Edit: crosspost, this is directed at Alkend.

This post has been edited by Sorrit: 11 April 2010 - 02:44 PM

[Sorrit]

Ampelas, on 11 April 2010 - 02:39 PM, said:

Sorrit, on 11 April 2010 - 01:01 PM, said:

I know my ass is on the line, but just looking at it in the simplist terms (usually the most likely terms, you have to admit) lynching me at this point doesn't help you, AND if you lose your leader, you'll probably be thinking Oooh, I need to take him up on his offer.

This is convincing me to switch my vote to you.

What do you mean? Lynching me doesn't help anyone without a leader now, or anyone who stands to lose a leader in night 4 actions.

[Silanah]

oh wow

gutsy move Sorritt, I salute you and all that.

however, basic rule of mafia--play for the team you're on NOW.

not voting you off if currently detrimental to both Pinheads and Freddys. Only Jasons stand to benefit, since you may recruit them, still.

[Ampelas]

Sorrit, on 11 April 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:

What do you mean? Lynching me doesn't help anyone without a leader now, or anyone who stands to lose a leader in night 4 actions.

So people without a leader should just sit tight, ignore the game and hope you pick them to join your little army? Pfft, that almost deserves a lynch just for the arrogance.

[Sorrit]

You know who your leader is Sil. If you think they stand to die tonight, you shouldn't vote for me. Mafia rulez vs. oddz, you decide.

[Sorrit]

Ampelas, on 11 April 2010 - 02:56 PM, said:

Sorrit, on 11 April 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:

What do you mean? Lynching me doesn't help anyone without a leader now, or anyone who stands to lose a leader in night 4 actions.

So people without a leader should just sit tight, ignore the game and hope you pick them to join your little army? Pfft, that almost deserves a lynch just for the arrogance.

Sit tight? No. You have two options to win. Have a majority number vs. the final team with a leader, and be able to figuure out the necessary lynches.

Or win with me. I"m not sitting here saying I'm the ONLY option, because that would be stupid.

All I"m arguing is that it doesn't make sense to lynch me day 4.

[Silanah]

you see, Sorrit,, the issue here is, your own powers are unknown. We know only what you claim, and if you havemultiple kills or some stuff like that and you ,may be able to win Night 4, if left one on one with another leader, we can't know for sure.

the safest course of action, by far, is to remove the unknown quantity first.

[Sorrit]

Ok. Let's play that game. Let's say I have a night kill. There are 2 leaders left, one or more with BP's. Even if I try to kill someone tonight, the chance that 2 leaders will die is next to nothing. Especially since remaining team members probably have guards.

No matter what kind of "unknown quantity" I am, I am not a threat at this juncture.