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Also, Morgy does explicitly mention 'vig' in the setup and we don't really know what the 4th member of each team could be, so while I would be surprised, it is possible that Galain is saying he's a vig, although in that case, he didn't really strip the BP afterall cuz leaders don't apparently lose their BP to vig kills.
Mafia 60 - 80s Horror A Nightmare on Friday the 13th in Hell
#602
Ampelas 
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:18 PM
"1) If the leader is targeted by a night action of an opposing faction the same night he chooses his victim, he will be able to kill any player the following night (Leader targets Ruse on night 1 but is simultaneously targeted by the enemy Fener. The following night, instead of killing Ruse, the leader can pick any player to kill) "
So this rule is ambiguous to me, does it mean that ANY action from an opposing faction (not just the leader) will result in any player being eligible the next night.
This complicates the night's results, because we don't really have any idea whether the Jason and Freddy who died were killed by their own leader or by another leader.
"2) If the leader is targeted by an enemy role the same night he uses his night kill, he is distracted from his purpose and his action fails. However, he will be able to commit a day kill the following day. The day kill comes into effect as soon as it's registered by a mod. A day kill does not end the day. "
Ok, so only two night kills, which suggests that someone (i.e. Pinhead) got distracted last night and will kill today instead.
"3) If the player a leader is targeting for a night kill is targeted by another player on the night of the kill, the leader kills the targeting player instead. A 1) action's immune to the effects of 3), meaning that if the leader is already targeting someone not of his factions as made possible through 1), he'll ignore the effect of 3)."
So unless we have a vig, it does not look likely that this rule came into play last night because neither Jason nor Freddy are dead (they both lost someone who BELONGED to them). If we have vigs, then one of them could have died last night, but if not then this rule didn't come into play.
So I'd like to know how Galain came across his info about Serc, because it sounds like he's claiming he lost a BP, which means maybe we've found two leaders?
So this rule is ambiguous to me, does it mean that ANY action from an opposing faction (not just the leader) will result in any player being eligible the next night.
This complicates the night's results, because we don't really have any idea whether the Jason and Freddy who died were killed by their own leader or by another leader.
"2) If the leader is targeted by an enemy role the same night he uses his night kill, he is distracted from his purpose and his action fails. However, he will be able to commit a day kill the following day. The day kill comes into effect as soon as it's registered by a mod. A day kill does not end the day. "
Ok, so only two night kills, which suggests that someone (i.e. Pinhead) got distracted last night and will kill today instead.
"3) If the player a leader is targeting for a night kill is targeted by another player on the night of the kill, the leader kills the targeting player instead. A 1) action's immune to the effects of 3), meaning that if the leader is already targeting someone not of his factions as made possible through 1), he'll ignore the effect of 3)."
So unless we have a vig, it does not look likely that this rule came into play last night because neither Jason nor Freddy are dead (they both lost someone who BELONGED to them). If we have vigs, then one of them could have died last night, but if not then this rule didn't come into play.
So I'd like to know how Galain came across his info about Serc, because it sounds like he's claiming he lost a BP, which means maybe we've found two leaders?
#603
Tennes
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:18 PM
Here's what I think. The language around the way leader kills can be altered suggests, to me, that the day kill can be on whomever the leader wishes. So we can expect one more death today at some point, most likely. Maybe not.
Pinhead and Freddy factions are currently in equilibrium. I'm on one of those teams, and two of the members on that team know which one I'm on (the leader and the finder for that team, unless the finder was Kalse). So my own faction is at a slight disadvantage already compared to the other one in equilibrium.
For example, last night, I was guarded.
Pinhead and Freddy factions are currently in equilibrium. I'm on one of those teams, and two of the members on that team know which one I'm on (the leader and the finder for that team, unless the finder was Kalse). So my own faction is at a slight disadvantage already compared to the other one in equilibrium.
For example, last night, I was guarded.
#604
Serc
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:21 PM
Tennes, on 08 April 2010 - 04:18 PM, said:
Here's what I think. The language around the way leader kills can be altered suggests, to me, that the day kill can be on whomever the leader wishes. So we can expect one more death today at some point, most likely. Maybe not.
Pinhead and Freddy factions are currently in equilibrium. I'm on one of those teams, and two of the members on that team know which one I'm on (the leader and the finder for that team, unless the finder was Kalse). So my own faction is at a slight disadvantage already compared to the other one in equilibrium.
For example, last night, I was guarded.
Pinhead and Freddy factions are currently in equilibrium. I'm on one of those teams, and two of the members on that team know which one I'm on (the leader and the finder for that team, unless the finder was Kalse). So my own faction is at a slight disadvantage already compared to the other one in equilibrium.
For example, last night, I was guarded.
If it helps, I think I was healed last night, because I genuinely do not have a BP. I think each team has a leader, a guard, a healer, and a finder, and presumably one other member, ability unknown. This would suggest that perhaps the "vig" might be the fourth faction, but that's just idle guessing.
#605
Tennes
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:23 PM
I guess right now the question is, do we want to try and eliminate the Jason faction? Doing so when your own faction is down a single member will cause you to lose to a majority vote, but if you think you have the numbers, it may be worth it. Maybe today we lynch another Jason and tonight another one dies and tomorrow it's like 1 Jason , 3 of either Freddy or Pinhead and 4 of the other, for example, then do the members of the low faction want to try and get the Jason on their side, when he's already angry about not being able to win?
I'm not sure that now is the right time to eliminate a faction. Way too much can still happen and if you're on the wrong side of the numbers, you're screwed.
I'm not sure that now is the right time to eliminate a faction. Way too much can still happen and if you're on the wrong side of the numbers, you're screwed.
#606
Tennes
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:25 PM
I think today we have to look at all of the information we've got so far based upon reveals and cases and what not.
Off the top of my head, Mockra was fingered as a Freddy, Serc is calling Galain a Jason (the leader, actually), and Galain is saying that Serc is Freddy (the leader).
If all of those are somehow true, the Pinhead faction is really sitting pretty, but I think it's pretty likely we're looking at some lies.
Off the top of my head, Mockra was fingered as a Freddy, Serc is calling Galain a Jason (the leader, actually), and Galain is saying that Serc is Freddy (the leader).
If all of those are somehow true, the Pinhead faction is really sitting pretty, but I think it's pretty likely we're looking at some lies.
#607
Ampelas
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:25 PM
This is always the question in a faction game. If you've got the numbers wrong when you take a faction out, then you could be left with the minority. Plus there's still the possible/probable extra faction as well.
#608
Serc
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:28 PM
Tennes, on 08 April 2010 - 04:23 PM, said:
I guess right now the question is, do we want to try and eliminate the Jason faction? Doing so when your own faction is down a single member will cause you to lose to a majority vote, but if you think you have the numbers, it may be worth it. Maybe today we lynch another Jason and tonight another one dies and tomorrow it's like 1 Jason , 3 of either Freddy or Pinhead and 4 of the other, for example, then do the members of the low faction want to try and get the Jason on their side, when he's already angry about not being able to win?
I'm not sure that now is the right time to eliminate a faction. Way too much can still happen and if you're on the wrong side of the numbers, you're screwed.
I'm not sure that now is the right time to eliminate a faction. Way too much can still happen and if you're on the wrong side of the numbers, you're screwed.
Actually, according to the rules, doesn't the Jason get sacrificed as the opposing Leader's sacrificial night kill? So, either way, the Jasons are gone, especially if the leader is gone, and I'm convinced Galain is the leader.
#610
Rashan
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:31 PM
Serc, on 08 April 2010 - 04:28 PM, said:
Tennes, on 08 April 2010 - 04:23 PM, said:
I guess right now the question is, do we want to try and eliminate the Jason faction? Doing so when your own faction is down a single member will cause you to lose to a majority vote, but if you think you have the numbers, it may be worth it. Maybe today we lynch another Jason and tonight another one dies and tomorrow it's like 1 Jason , 3 of either Freddy or Pinhead and 4 of the other, for example, then do the members of the low faction want to try and get the Jason on their side, when he's already angry about not being able to win?
I'm not sure that now is the right time to eliminate a faction. Way too much can still happen and if you're on the wrong side of the numbers, you're screwed.
I'm not sure that now is the right time to eliminate a faction. Way too much can still happen and if you're on the wrong side of the numbers, you're screwed.
Actually, according to the rules, doesn't the Jason get sacrificed as the opposing Leader's sacrificial night kill? So, either way, the Jasons are gone, especially if the leader is gone, and I'm convinced Galain is the leader.
Er, Rashan doth believeth it sayseth that the alts of the remaining faction members are given to the other 2 leadereths
#611
Liosan
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:32 PM
So Galain is claiming to be a leader and is accusing Serc of being the same. I'm sorry, but that just doesnt seem right. Why would a leader reveal to get another leader lynched, especially if he's already removed said leader's BP? Best case is he'll get lynched second. Also, how would Galain know that Serc is Freddy specifically?
This seems like a distraction, I'm not sure from what though. Galain had a single vote on him, which isnt a huge amount of pressure and there wasn't anyone else who was under obvious pressure to try and distract from...
It also occurrs to me that if Galain is actually telling the truth, do we actually want lynch either of them? Seeing as how the mystery faction's win condition is to see all three leaders dead, handing her two of them seems like a big step towards screwing us all over.
I guess the easiest way to tell would be to wait and see if there's a daykill, but there's no guarantee whoeever has it will use it early on to clear to people if neither of them are in his faction.
I'm curious as to why someone (telas I think) said it couldnt have been a healer, since that is a also a possibility, albeit a slimmer one.
This seems like a distraction, I'm not sure from what though. Galain had a single vote on him, which isnt a huge amount of pressure and there wasn't anyone else who was under obvious pressure to try and distract from...
It also occurrs to me that if Galain is actually telling the truth, do we actually want lynch either of them? Seeing as how the mystery faction's win condition is to see all three leaders dead, handing her two of them seems like a big step towards screwing us all over.
I guess the easiest way to tell would be to wait and see if there's a daykill, but there's no guarantee whoeever has it will use it early on to clear to people if neither of them are in his faction.
I'm curious as to why someone (telas I think) said it couldnt have been a healer, since that is a also a possibility, albeit a slimmer one.
#612
Telas
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:32 PM
Serc, on 08 April 2010 - 04:28 PM, said:
Tennes, on 08 April 2010 - 04:23 PM, said:
I guess right now the question is, do we want to try and eliminate the Jason faction? Doing so when your own faction is down a single member will cause you to lose to a majority vote, but if you think you have the numbers, it may be worth it. Maybe today we lynch another Jason and tonight another one dies and tomorrow it's like 1 Jason , 3 of either Freddy or Pinhead and 4 of the other, for example, then do the members of the low faction want to try and get the Jason on their side, when he's already angry about not being able to win?
I'm not sure that now is the right time to eliminate a faction. Way too much can still happen and if you're on the wrong side of the numbers, you're screwed.
I'm not sure that now is the right time to eliminate a faction. Way too much can still happen and if you're on the wrong side of the numbers, you're screwed.
Actually, according to the rules, doesn't the Jason get sacrificed as the opposing Leader's sacrificial night kill? So, either way, the Jasons are gone, especially if the leader is gone, and I'm convinced Galain is the leader.
I'm not sure I'm following you here. Sacrificial night kill?
#613
Ampelas
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:34 PM
Rashan, on 08 April 2010 - 04:31 PM, said:
Er, Rashan doth believeth it sayseth that the alts of the remaining faction members are given to the other 2 leadereths
Rashan, stop fucking about with the stupid posting style. You're coming across as someone who doesn't give a shit about what's going on, which makes me think you're the only faction who has nothing to lose by anything that's happening... i.e. the extra faction.
#614
Telas
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:35 PM
Liosan, on 08 April 2010 - 04:32 PM, said:
So Galain is claiming to be a leader and is accusing Serc of being the same. I'm sorry, but that just doesnt seem right. Why would a leader reveal to get another leader lynched, especially if he's already removed said leader's BP? Best case is he'll get lynched second. Also, how would Galain know that Serc is Freddy specifically?
This seems like a distraction, I'm not sure from what though. Galain had a single vote on him, which isnt a huge amount of pressure and there wasn't anyone else who was under obvious pressure to try and distract from...
It also occurrs to me that if Galain is actually telling the truth, do we actually want lynch either of them? Seeing as how the mystery faction's win condition is to see all three leaders dead, handing her two of them seems like a big step towards screwing us all over.
I guess the easiest way to tell would be to wait and see if there's a daykill, but there's no guarantee whoeever has it will use it early on to clear to people if neither of them are in his faction.
I'm curious as to why someone (telas I think) said it couldnt have been a healer, since that is a also a possibility, albeit a slimmer one.
This seems like a distraction, I'm not sure from what though. Galain had a single vote on him, which isnt a huge amount of pressure and there wasn't anyone else who was under obvious pressure to try and distract from...
It also occurrs to me that if Galain is actually telling the truth, do we actually want lynch either of them? Seeing as how the mystery faction's win condition is to see all three leaders dead, handing her two of them seems like a big step towards screwing us all over.
I guess the easiest way to tell would be to wait and see if there's a daykill, but there's no guarantee whoeever has it will use it early on to clear to people if neither of them are in his faction.
I'm curious as to why someone (telas I think) said it couldnt have been a healer, since that is a also a possibility, albeit a slimmer one.
Can't have been a healer because leaders ignore heals. If 3 leaders targeted someone, and one of their targets was healed, we still would have had 3 kills. At least that's how I understand 'leaders ignore the effects of guards and heals'.
#615
Serc
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:37 PM
Telas, on 08 April 2010 - 04:32 PM, said:
Serc, on 08 April 2010 - 04:28 PM, said:
Tennes, on 08 April 2010 - 04:23 PM, said:
I guess right now the question is, do we want to try and eliminate the Jason faction? Doing so when your own faction is down a single member will cause you to lose to a majority vote, but if you think you have the numbers, it may be worth it. Maybe today we lynch another Jason and tonight another one dies and tomorrow it's like 1 Jason , 3 of either Freddy or Pinhead and 4 of the other, for example, then do the members of the low faction want to try and get the Jason on their side, when he's already angry about not being able to win?
I'm not sure that now is the right time to eliminate a faction. Way too much can still happen and if you're on the wrong side of the numbers, you're screwed.
I'm not sure that now is the right time to eliminate a faction. Way too much can still happen and if you're on the wrong side of the numbers, you're screwed.
Actually, according to the rules, doesn't the Jason get sacrificed as the opposing Leader's sacrificial night kill? So, either way, the Jasons are gone, especially if the leader is gone, and I'm convinced Galain is the leader.
I'm not sure I'm following you here. Sacrificial night kill?
Yeah. According to the rules, the leaders have to kill one of their own team every two nights, and if one leader dies, they can instead target that team's remaining alts.
#617
Serc
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:40 PM
Telas, on 08 April 2010 - 04:35 PM, said:
Liosan, on 08 April 2010 - 04:32 PM, said:
So Galain is claiming to be a leader and is accusing Serc of being the same. I'm sorry, but that just doesnt seem right. Why would a leader reveal to get another leader lynched, especially if he's already removed said leader's BP? Best case is he'll get lynched second. Also, how would Galain know that Serc is Freddy specifically?
This seems like a distraction, I'm not sure from what though. Galain had a single vote on him, which isnt a huge amount of pressure and there wasn't anyone else who was under obvious pressure to try and distract from...
It also occurrs to me that if Galain is actually telling the truth, do we actually want lynch either of them? Seeing as how the mystery faction's win condition is to see all three leaders dead, handing her two of them seems like a big step towards screwing us all over.
I guess the easiest way to tell would be to wait and see if there's a daykill, but there's no guarantee whoeever has it will use it early on to clear to people if neither of them are in his faction.
I'm curious as to why someone (telas I think) said it couldnt have been a healer, since that is a also a possibility, albeit a slimmer one.
This seems like a distraction, I'm not sure from what though. Galain had a single vote on him, which isnt a huge amount of pressure and there wasn't anyone else who was under obvious pressure to try and distract from...
It also occurrs to me that if Galain is actually telling the truth, do we actually want lynch either of them? Seeing as how the mystery faction's win condition is to see all three leaders dead, handing her two of them seems like a big step towards screwing us all over.
I guess the easiest way to tell would be to wait and see if there's a daykill, but there's no guarantee whoeever has it will use it early on to clear to people if neither of them are in his faction.
I'm curious as to why someone (telas I think) said it couldnt have been a healer, since that is a also a possibility, albeit a slimmer one.
Can't have been a healer because leaders ignore heals. If 3 leaders targeted someone, and one of their targets was healed, we still would have had 3 kills. At least that's how I understand 'leaders ignore the effects of guards and heals'.
I presumed it meant guards couldn't guard them, and leaders couldn't be healed, either. But you could be right. Although, it doesn't explain why I never had a BP. I think Galain is just panicking and trying to take me down with him. However, you are welcome to lynch or kill me tomorrow, if you think I'm a leader, I just want Kaschan's faction gone.
#618
Liosan
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:44 PM
Serc, on 08 April 2010 - 04:40 PM, said:
Telas, on 08 April 2010 - 04:35 PM, said:
Liosan, on 08 April 2010 - 04:32 PM, said:
So Galain is claiming to be a leader and is accusing Serc of being the same. I'm sorry, but that just doesnt seem right. Why would a leader reveal to get another leader lynched, especially if he's already removed said leader's BP? Best case is he'll get lynched second. Also, how would Galain know that Serc is Freddy specifically?
This seems like a distraction, I'm not sure from what though. Galain had a single vote on him, which isnt a huge amount of pressure and there wasn't anyone else who was under obvious pressure to try and distract from...
It also occurrs to me that if Galain is actually telling the truth, do we actually want lynch either of them? Seeing as how the mystery faction's win condition is to see all three leaders dead, handing her two of them seems like a big step towards screwing us all over.
I guess the easiest way to tell would be to wait and see if there's a daykill, but there's no guarantee whoeever has it will use it early on to clear to people if neither of them are in his faction.
I'm curious as to why someone (telas I think) said it couldnt have been a healer, since that is a also a possibility, albeit a slimmer one.
This seems like a distraction, I'm not sure from what though. Galain had a single vote on him, which isnt a huge amount of pressure and there wasn't anyone else who was under obvious pressure to try and distract from...
It also occurrs to me that if Galain is actually telling the truth, do we actually want lynch either of them? Seeing as how the mystery faction's win condition is to see all three leaders dead, handing her two of them seems like a big step towards screwing us all over.
I guess the easiest way to tell would be to wait and see if there's a daykill, but there's no guarantee whoeever has it will use it early on to clear to people if neither of them are in his faction.
I'm curious as to why someone (telas I think) said it couldnt have been a healer, since that is a also a possibility, albeit a slimmer one.
Can't have been a healer because leaders ignore heals. If 3 leaders targeted someone, and one of their targets was healed, we still would have had 3 kills. At least that's how I understand 'leaders ignore the effects of guards and heals'.
I presumed it meant guards couldn't guard them, and leaders couldn't be healed, either. But you could be right. Although, it doesn't explain why I never had a BP. I think Galain is just panicking and trying to take me down with him. However, you are welcome to lynch or kill me tomorrow, if you think I'm a leader, I just want Kaschan's faction gone.
I interpreted it this way too - as in the healer can't sit and heal his leader every night because the heals don't affect him, the same way guards dont affect him. They only count towards being targetted. So a healer is still a definite possibility I think.
#619
Rashan
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:48 PM
Liosan, on 08 April 2010 - 04:44 PM, said:
Serc, on 08 April 2010 - 04:40 PM, said:
Telas, on 08 April 2010 - 04:35 PM, said:
Liosan, on 08 April 2010 - 04:32 PM, said:
So Galain is claiming to be a leader and is accusing Serc of being the same. I'm sorry, but that just doesnt seem right. Why would a leader reveal to get another leader lynched, especially if he's already removed said leader's BP? Best case is he'll get lynched second. Also, how would Galain know that Serc is Freddy specifically?
This seems like a distraction, I'm not sure from what though. Galain had a single vote on him, which isnt a huge amount of pressure and there wasn't anyone else who was under obvious pressure to try and distract from...
It also occurrs to me that if Galain is actually telling the truth, do we actually want lynch either of them? Seeing as how the mystery faction's win condition is to see all three leaders dead, handing her two of them seems like a big step towards screwing us all over.
I guess the easiest way to tell would be to wait and see if there's a daykill, but there's no guarantee whoeever has it will use it early on to clear to people if neither of them are in his faction.
I'm curious as to why someone (telas I think) said it couldnt have been a healer, since that is a also a possibility, albeit a slimmer one.
This seems like a distraction, I'm not sure from what though. Galain had a single vote on him, which isnt a huge amount of pressure and there wasn't anyone else who was under obvious pressure to try and distract from...
It also occurrs to me that if Galain is actually telling the truth, do we actually want lynch either of them? Seeing as how the mystery faction's win condition is to see all three leaders dead, handing her two of them seems like a big step towards screwing us all over.
I guess the easiest way to tell would be to wait and see if there's a daykill, but there's no guarantee whoeever has it will use it early on to clear to people if neither of them are in his faction.
I'm curious as to why someone (telas I think) said it couldnt have been a healer, since that is a also a possibility, albeit a slimmer one.
Can't have been a healer because leaders ignore heals. If 3 leaders targeted someone, and one of their targets was healed, we still would have had 3 kills. At least that's how I understand 'leaders ignore the effects of guards and heals'.
I presumed it meant guards couldn't guard them, and leaders couldn't be healed, either. But you could be right. Although, it doesn't explain why I never had a BP. I think Galain is just panicking and trying to take me down with him. However, you are welcome to lynch or kill me tomorrow, if you think I'm a leader, I just want Kaschan's faction gone.
I interpreted it this way too - as in the healer can't sit and heal his leader every night because the heals don't affect him, the same way guards dont affect him. They only count towards being targetted. So a healer is still a definite possibility I think.
If its the other way than healers are unlikely to ever be much use, but would also confirm the existance of vigs as what else could the healers heal with their elixirs and back rubs and such?
#620
Serc
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Posted 08 April 2010 - 04:51 PM
Rashan, on 08 April 2010 - 04:48 PM, said:
Liosan, on 08 April 2010 - 04:44 PM, said:
Serc, on 08 April 2010 - 04:40 PM, said:
Telas, on 08 April 2010 - 04:35 PM, said:
Liosan, on 08 April 2010 - 04:32 PM, said:
So Galain is claiming to be a leader and is accusing Serc of being the same. I'm sorry, but that just doesnt seem right. Why would a leader reveal to get another leader lynched, especially if he's already removed said leader's BP? Best case is he'll get lynched second. Also, how would Galain know that Serc is Freddy specifically?
This seems like a distraction, I'm not sure from what though. Galain had a single vote on him, which isnt a huge amount of pressure and there wasn't anyone else who was under obvious pressure to try and distract from...
It also occurrs to me that if Galain is actually telling the truth, do we actually want lynch either of them? Seeing as how the mystery faction's win condition is to see all three leaders dead, handing her two of them seems like a big step towards screwing us all over.
I guess the easiest way to tell would be to wait and see if there's a daykill, but there's no guarantee whoeever has it will use it early on to clear to people if neither of them are in his faction.
I'm curious as to why someone (telas I think) said it couldnt have been a healer, since that is a also a possibility, albeit a slimmer one.
This seems like a distraction, I'm not sure from what though. Galain had a single vote on him, which isnt a huge amount of pressure and there wasn't anyone else who was under obvious pressure to try and distract from...
It also occurrs to me that if Galain is actually telling the truth, do we actually want lynch either of them? Seeing as how the mystery faction's win condition is to see all three leaders dead, handing her two of them seems like a big step towards screwing us all over.
I guess the easiest way to tell would be to wait and see if there's a daykill, but there's no guarantee whoeever has it will use it early on to clear to people if neither of them are in his faction.
I'm curious as to why someone (telas I think) said it couldnt have been a healer, since that is a also a possibility, albeit a slimmer one.
Can't have been a healer because leaders ignore heals. If 3 leaders targeted someone, and one of their targets was healed, we still would have had 3 kills. At least that's how I understand 'leaders ignore the effects of guards and heals'.
I presumed it meant guards couldn't guard them, and leaders couldn't be healed, either. But you could be right. Although, it doesn't explain why I never had a BP. I think Galain is just panicking and trying to take me down with him. However, you are welcome to lynch or kill me tomorrow, if you think I'm a leader, I just want Kaschan's faction gone.
I interpreted it this way too - as in the healer can't sit and heal his leader every night because the heals don't affect him, the same way guards dont affect him. They only count towards being targetted. So a healer is still a definite possibility I think.
If its the other way than healers are unlikely to ever be much use, but would also confirm the existance of vigs as what else could the healers heal with their elixirs and back rubs and such?
If there are vigs, I would have expected more deaths on the last few days. If there's a vig, I suspect it's probably that mythical fourth faction.
