[Telas]

Liosan, on 07 April 2010 - 03:45 PM, said:

Kaschan, on 07 April 2010 - 03:33 PM, said:

I was refering to number 3 and further.
also you left some out...it continues after 3 and makes it even more confusing...i read it and i just end up staring blankly thinking...."why bother?"

After three it just says that the remaining leaders get the names of the people in a faction if it's leader is eliminated. The reason you'd bother is because there's a 1/3 chance that tonight your NA will kill you or give an enemy leader an advantage. Understanding how your NA interacts with the leader's is pretty important.

Exactly. Your willful cluelessness is absolutely astounding, Kaschan.

[Tennes]

Kaschan, on 07 April 2010 - 08:33 AM, said:

I fully expect to get killed tonight. so im going to get all my thoughts out there while i can.

dont mind me...i must still have my cup of coffee

Ridiculous. Assuming you're a pawn, why would your own leader kill you when you clearly are doing a good job keeping attention on yourself and not him? I can say this because I know after seeing the top of Page 11 today that you're still alive.

[Tennes]

Path-Shaper, on 07 April 2010 - 01:58 PM, said:

You were supposed to get this at the beginning of the day, but I forgot to tell Baudin. My mistake.

In the midst of all the tumult of the morning, Liosan stumbles over Atrahal's sleeping form. Turning her around, it is sadly discovered that Atrahal is not at sleeping. Sometime during the previous day she must have fallen and impaled herself on her perky breasts.

You are all very distraught.


Atrahal (Tapper) is dead. She belonged to Pinhead.

Thanks for the clarification. A mod kill should be a penalty and I think it was more 'helpful' than penalizing to have someone killed and it kept secret who that person belonged to.

[Tennes]

I really doubt there are vigs. I find that to be fairly preposterous.

[Telas]

*shrugs* Morgy did say this would be bloody. A couple of vigs scattered around the teams wouldn't be too preposterous, would it?

[Tennes]

I really dislike people who use Mafia as an excuse to just throw excessive amounts of insults out at each other. It really degrades the quality of the game, IMO.

Vote Kaschan

[Tennes]

@Telas, No I think it is absolutely insane to think there are vigs.

The leaders clearly are the PRIMARY mechanism for killing, but they have restrictions. Namely, they have to kill their own faction. This can be mitigated and changed by enemy faction actions, or if an enemy leader dies.

Why on earth would a henchman get a killing power that is BETTER than the leader? A free-target kill? You'd have to give all of the leaders a BP to ensure that they don't get errantly killed off (considering how hugely devastating it is for a faction to lose its leader), and even if you did that, the vig could just reveal the next day and get that player lynched (yes a guard could theoretically stop it, but you know that the person would be lynched to test the theory).

No way there are vigs. That would make this game a balance disaster.

[Rashan]

Tennes, on 07 April 2010 - 04:36 PM, said:

@Telas, No I think it is absolutely insane to think there are vigs.

The leaders clearly are the PRIMARY mechanism for killing, but they have restrictions. Namely, they have to kill their own faction. This can be mitigated and changed by enemy faction actions, or if an enemy leader dies.

Why on earth would a henchman get a killing power that is BETTER than the leader? A free-target kill? You'd have to give all of the leaders a BP to ensure that they don't get errantly killed off (considering how hugely devastating it is for a faction to lose its leader), and even if you did that, the vig could just reveal the next day and get that player lynched (yes a guard could theoretically stop it, but you know that the person would be lynched to test the theory).

No way there are vigs. That would make this game a balance disaster.

Go read the rules again, you foolish possum. Leaders have BP against all non-leaders, so they can't be vigged. Add to that that almsot everyone probably has a role, there'll be plenty of guards and heals so if a player has just one vig and he uses it and it doesnt work yeah he might reveal but the odds are pretty fair that he was guarded or the target healed instead, which'll use up 2 days of lynches if believed, so people are going to be hesitant to follow through on that reveal (and since this is merc it'll be highly suspicious anyways)

[Rashan]

Rashan shoul clarify^^ the BP is against any vigs or kills but only removed from another leader's attack so it takes one hit from another leader to remove the BP and then any kind of vig or kill from anyone to kill the leader thereafter, as he understand it

edit: accidently was in 1st person, now in 3rd

This post has been edited by Rashan: 07 April 2010 - 04:45 PM

[Telas]

Ahh, people should always read the rules carefully. Leaders have BPs that can only be removed by leaders, so vigs couldn't take out leaders. Leaders also ignore guards and heals, so I don't really see how it's all that unfair. Even if a vig revealed, since we have so many roles, likely guards and healers on each team, it's wayyy more likely the target was healed or he was guarded than he knocked a BP, so I don't really see how it would be so massively unbalancing. Makes the end game rather more interesting too.

Quote

The leader has a BP that can only be removed by another leader.
...
Leaders ignore the effects of guard and heal

EDIT: Damn, x-post with Rashan.

This post has been edited by Telas: 07 April 2010 - 04:47 PM

[Tennes]

Funny, I did read the rules and didn't see that. It's hidden at the end of a line before all the juicy rule details.

Oh well, guess we could have vigs.

[Tennes]

Rashan, a reveal may be 'doubted' on thread, but I doubt it will not be acted upon. If a person reveals, they are probably reasonably confident they are not attacking their own faction member, so to not test the reveal is to basically side with the accused (1/3) instead of the accuser (2/3). Odds definitely favor the accuser.

[Korlat]

Yeah, I'd say Kaschan is doing a good job at keeping the attention all on himself. His righteous indignation after the failed lynch seemed really forced though, and I wanted to vote him straight off after reading his little diatribe, but i think there are bigger fish to fry. Gonna go back and look at the train. I think there is at least one leader on the train. Probably midway through or towards the latter stages.

[Ampelas]

I was about to make a massive, coherent and persuasive post about why the following post was bullshit and meant that Mockra was on Atrahal's team.

Mockra, on 07 April 2010 - 08:29 AM, said:

Well, mods are mods, they're the boss. I'm wondering if there was a game-mechanics reason to do so, but there's no point going there (not even sure if it's allowed anyways).

Hopefully night will not be too long.

However it all hinged on the fact that we didn't get a CF for the modkill (and Mockra's delight in sucking Morgoth's balls), however now we have the CF. So my post went to waste.

However, this is still a pussy post. Mockra, stop sucking Morgoth's balls and grow a pair of your own.

It seems clear to me now that Kaschan is not a leader, because he's drawing too much attention to himself. I do have to agree with him on one thing though, the leader rules are fucking complicated. I've had two beers, and though I thought I understood the rules I now think I was kidding myself.

[Korlat]

Tennes, on 07 April 2010 - 04:31 PM, said:

I really dislike people who use Mafia as an excuse to just throw excessive amounts of insults out at each other. It really degrades the quality of the game, IMO.

Vote Kaschan

I dislike this vote.

1. it has noting to to with the content of the discussion so far.
2. It is an easy vote.

It's pushing for a lynch that almost happens and preying upon the fears that we NEED a lynch today to get anything done as it goes after the one person who was close to a lynch yesterday.

This seems like a pushy vote of convenience.

[Tennes]

How about this, Korlat:

Kaschan is not on my team. He's on Jason's team. You're welcome to guess if I'm on Pinhead's team or Freddy's team.

Since I HIGHLY doubt that Kaschan was going to get killed by his own leader tonight (since he's doing a bang-up job as a symp, and I mean that), it's definitely in my best interest to see him lynched since that means his faction is likely to go down 2 members. I can't imagine anyone outside of Jason's faction not being on board with that

[Telas]

Tennes, on 07 April 2010 - 05:04 PM, said:

How about this, Korlat:

Kaschan is not on my team. He's on Jason's team. You're welcome to guess if I'm on Pinhead's team or Freddy's team.

Since I HIGHLY doubt that Kaschan was going to get killed by his own leader tonight (since he's doing a bang-up job as a symp, and I mean that), it's definitely in my best interest to see him lynched since that means his faction is likely to go down 2 members. I can't imagine anyone outside of Jason's faction not being on board with that

How do you know for certain he's on Jason's team...? Why not Pinhead or Freddy?

[Ampelas]

Verrrryyyy interesting. Expand pls.

[Telas]

Yes, expansion is needed.

Oh, and just because you've sunk a few pots Amp, doesn't mean the rules are more complicated

[Ampelas]

Telas, on 07 April 2010 - 05:08 PM, said:

Yes, expansion is needed.

Oh, and just because you've sunk a few pots Amp, doesn't mean the rules are more complicated

In other words, "No still means No".