[Jhenna]

Is Challice Daru? She's listed as so in the encyclopedia. I don't have my GotM anymore and I'm just reading Toll the Hounds. There's a description about "the pallid white skin of her arms" on page 297. Also there's a couple other descriptions of those in Darujhistan as having "Face pale as cream", page 37. Aren't the Daru and Gadrobi both black? Does anyone know the name of the whiteys?

This post has been edited by Jhenna: 20 March 2010 - 05:13 AM

[Defiance]

I don't think Daru are, Gadrobi I don't know. Seven Cities (Quick Ben, Kalam, Barathol) is where the majority of blacks are. Crokus is a Daru and if he's black then I just need to stop reading now because I never picked it up across 8 books.

[Illuyankas]

Not sure where you're getting the Daru as black from. You might be mixing up descriptions of Quick, Kalam and Tayschrenn with the native Daru characters. I know Rallick Nom, Crokus, Murrrrriilllliio, Coll, etc. are all white, at least.

[Jhenna]

Illuyankas, on 20 March 2010 - 05:27 AM, said:

Not sure where you're getting the Daru as black from. You might be mixing up descriptions of Quick, Kalam and Tayschrenn with the native Daru characters. I know Rallick Nom, Crokus, Murrrrriilllliio, Coll, etc. are all white, at least.

Ah I got it from another thread I was reading, post 12 here: http://forum.malazan...ic=8234&hl=skin

"Rallick Nom is described as dark skinned, and is the only Daru whose skin colour is described, so we can presume that the other Daru are simmilarly dark skinned."

edit: also found it here: http://encyclopediam...com/Rallick+Nom

This post has been edited by Jhenna: 20 March 2010 - 05:48 AM

[Defiance]

Jhenna, on 20 March 2010 - 05:45 AM, said:

Illuyankas, on 20 March 2010 - 05:27 AM, said:

Not sure where you're getting the Daru as black from. You might be mixing up descriptions of Quick, Kalam and Tayschrenn with the native Daru characters. I know Rallick Nom, Crokus, Murrrrriilllliio, Coll, etc. are all white, at least.

Ah I got it from another thread I was reading, post 12 here: http://forum.malazan...ic=8234&hl=skin

"Rallick Nom is described as dark skinned, and is the only Daru whose skin colour is described, so we can presume that the other Daru are simmilarly dark skinned."

edit: also found it here: http://encyclopediam...com/Rallick+Nom

Either a) it's a GotMism, b) Rallick is just very tan, or c) something I haven't though of yet.

This post has been edited by Defiance: 20 March 2010 - 06:04 AM

[Illuyankas]

I'm sure Rallick's described as lighter skinned in TTH. I'd check to see what skin colour Torvald Nom has, but to my utter horror he's not even listed in the Dramatis Personae. Scorch and Leff each get an entry, even Tormin, a Bridgeburner sergeant namedropped in one line by Kalam, is there, but no Torvald. I am absolutely appalled.

[Sinisdar Toste]

you should write an indignant letter. 'to the editor' style

[Defiance]

Illuyankas, on 20 March 2010 - 06:39 AM, said:

I'm sure Rallick's described as lighter skinned in TTH. I'd check to see what skin colour Torvald Nom has, but to my utter horror he's not even listed in the Dramatis Personae. Scorch and Leff each get an entry, even Tormin, a Bridgeburner sergeant namedropped in one line by Kalam, is there, but no Torvald. I am absolutely appalled.

The Dramatis Personae couldn't handle his epicness.

[borstalboy]

the nobility of darujhistan seems to be mostly daru, with some gadrobi elements. challice suspects vidikas to have gadrobi blood due to the architecture of his manor or whatever.

crokus is described as daru, n as havin black hair n blue eyes in GotM. how the daru giffer from the gadrobi physically is never made clear, except that the daru r taller.

that the bridgeburners of wj's squad, a pretty mixed crew, r able to move around in darujhistan without attractin too much attention seems to indicate the presence of pretty diverse types in darujhistan (or genabackis, at least).

dark-skinned natives seem to hail from dal hon n southern seven cities...

[Puck]

Jhenna, on 20 March 2010 - 05:45 AM, said:

Illuyankas, on 20 March 2010 - 05:27 AM, said:

Not sure where you're getting the Daru as black from. You might be mixing up descriptions of Quick, Kalam and Tayschrenn with the native Daru characters. I know Rallick Nom, Crokus, Murrrrriilllliio, Coll, etc. are all white, at least.

Ah I got it from another thread I was reading, post 12 here: http://forum.malazan...ic=8234&hl=skin

"Rallick Nom is described as dark skinned, and is the only Daru whose skin colour is described, so we can presume that the other Daru are simmilarly dark skinned."

edit: also found it here: http://encyclopediam...com/Rallick+Nom

I always took that as Rallick having tanned skin, like 'walks around in the sun pretty much'. It says 'dark skin', not 'black skin', which has always been atributed to those with really dark/black skin. So dark means tanned, I'd say.

And Challice's fair skin would come from being nobility and not having to word outside/hang around in the sun too much.

[Jhenna]

I just read that the barmaid at the Phoenix Inn had blonde hair so along with the other descriptors makes sense the locals are white. Rallick seems to be an exception which makes me put it down as a GotMism. I think of Rallick as an assassin that rules the night so not sure what he's doing heavy tanning during the day. Are Nom's nobility, or a rich merchant class? Of course unless SE puts it down clearly "they're Daru" we just have to assume most of the Darujhistan characters are, either Daru or Gadrobi which we're also not clear on. But when the Daru was stalking the Malazans over the heads of the Gadrobi they just think "he's taller than the crowd" not "he's white and everyone else is black".

I know SE doesn't go much for description but hard to picture characters when you're not even sure what race anyone is. It seems to be he pointedly ignores it for the most part as no one ever seems to think something along the lines of, hey what's that tall white guy with red hair doing here in the middle of the desert, like with Malazans in Seven Cities during the middle of a war.

This post has been edited by Jhenna: 20 March 2010 - 04:37 PM

[Sinisdar Toste]

i think erikson purposely avoids any mention of race within the human characters. because race doesn't really exist inside humanity. there are different ethnicities and he mentions them pretty frequently. the rhivi, daru, capan, nathii, dal honese, kanese, ehrlii, arak, semk, letherii, untan, seti, wickan, etc etc etc. this parallels the way in which he treats gender relations in the series. he's purposely created a world where racism between humans of different colours does not have the same flavour as racism in our world. people don't think of the dal honese as "black people", they're dal honese. the daru aren't "white people" their daru or capan or gadrobi. there hasn't been a history of racial profiling and scientific categorization like in our world. plenty of other reasons to hate your fellow man.

of course, the fact that other races like the imass, jaghut, tarthenal, fenn and tiste and so on do exist probably effects things too.

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 20 March 2010 - 08:35 PM

[D'rek]

I thought Rallick wasn't Daru or Gadrobi. Can't remember where I got that from though - somewhere in GotM...

[borstalboy]

D, on 22 March 2010 - 04:49 PM, said:

I thought Rallick wasn't Daru or Gadrobi. Can't remember where I got that from though - somewhere in GotM...

he is a member of house nom isn't he? (outcast/cadet branch/whatever) n the nobility is supposed to be mostly daru.

[D'rek]

borstalboy, on 22 March 2010 - 07:32 PM, said:

D, on 22 March 2010 - 04:49 PM, said:

I thought Rallick wasn't Daru or Gadrobi. Can't remember where I got that from though - somewhere in GotM...

he is a member of house nom isn't he? (outcast/cadet branch/whatever) n the nobility is supposed to be mostly daru.

Well yeah, Torvald for example is most probably Daru, but Rallick could be some rhivi bastard child, hence the outcast-ness...?

More likely I'm just unconsciously making this up to myself, though

[Defiance]

If he was a bastard child I doubt he'd have the surname of Nom.

[rhulad]

It seems to me that all the nobles/noble families are Daru. But yeah, Challice is definitely Daru.

[haroos]

Defiance, on 20 March 2010 - 05:26 AM, said:

I don't think Daru are, Gadrobi I don't know. Seven Cities (Quick Ben, Kalam, Barathol) is where the majority of blacks are. Crokus is a Daru and if he's black then I just need to stop reading now because I never picked it up across 8 books.

isn't kallam napan ?

[Harvester]

Nope, Kalam is Seven Cities.

//edit: What does Napan skin look like anyway? Is it just blue or some kind of bluish black?

This post has been edited by Harvester: 05 April 2010 - 06:33 PM

[Salt-Man Z]

Napans are specifically stated to have blue skin. I recall "dusky blue" as being a common description, but I imagine it comes in a range of shades, like other skin colors.