[Steamer]

hi all

I am currently sitting at around 790 pages thru MoI and lovin every second of it....its a treat and a delight

I read it on the train going to and from work....the other day this hooligan on the train comes up, snatches the book from behind me and starts leafing through it saying why do people read fantasy its a load of rubbish

I eventually silenced him and got the book back......after talking to a few others on the train who read fantasy it appears this chap has a hatred of fantasy....any ideas why???


If he read MoI it would silence his tooth hole



Any ideas or clues to why he might hate fantasy would be great......he must just be a dope

Cheers

Steamer

[Sinisdar Toste]

sounds like he could be one of the many angry and disillusioned fans of either WoT or aSoIaF

[worry]

i blame society.

[HoosierDaddy]

I have never, ever heard of a public "Fantasy bully" before. Yours might be the first I've ever heard of, to be honest. Odds are if it had written words on it he would be pissed at you reading it. If not, well who gives a shit about a guy with bad taste? Next time he grabs your book from your hands tell the cops you were assault and battered, because that's what the guy is doing and that is illegal.

[Aptorian]

I wouldn't be the one who felt assaulted and battered if some punk snatched the book I was reading out of my hands on public transportation and then began trashtalking me. I value my personal space, that shit would have made me see red.

How ever, back on topic, I think it is general knowledge that Fantasy along with Sci-fi doesn't get much respect among the literati. There's too much of a stigma from the LARPers running around in forests and the terrible Dungeon and Dragons type novels that dominated the market 20 years ago. When you say fantasy people immediately think LotR and Willow. Sword and sorcery type stuff filled with generic characters and horrible plots. Nerds playing Pen and Paper RPGs, etc.

Hell, it doesn't really help that the most popular fantasy books are things like GRRMs reiteration of very plain sword and sorcery, or people like Goodkinds or Canavans terrible bullshit.

[Red King]

Truth be told, I expected a Terry Goodkind rant from Apt right there. But, he also has a very valid point. Its difficult for some people to wrap their minds around the concept that fantasy and sci-fi present these days. Other times, its purely because they are morons and probably still read their hello kitty kindergarden book and suck on their thumb while they piddle themselves and call for mommys assistance. Anyway, its all of perception on some, this young rable rouser could have a distaste for fantasy because he focuses on the world around him, its not a negative thing to do that, but he also choose to ignore a potential imagination or he just doesn't have an imagination in general which explains his inability to understand the concept of a proper and well made fantasy story. Hope to enjoyed this session of Psychological Profiling by Ultor, see you next time at some random time!

-Ultor

P.s. MoI was one of the best books of the series so far (just in my opinion and I haven't finished the series yet)

[Eispeis]

There are several people who are unable to accept fantasy litterature/film because it's "unrealistic" (my fiancee and one of my closest friends to name two). However my fiancee loved the LotR movies and Harry Potter, so how Battlestar Galactica is any different is beyond me. My friend who detests sci-fi and fantasy loved the absolute crapfest that was the movie 2012 on the other hand ("because of the special effects"), so I think it's mostly a stereotyped view on their part, "with all the elves and +1 swords etc." They have no concept of what great fantasy is and rejects it out of hand. Nothing frustrates me more than when my girl can't understand why I love fantasy so much "because it isn't real" while at the same time loves Don Quixote, Jane Austen or Pan's Labyrinth. They are arguably great in their genres, but they're no more "real". It's all about being able to identify with the characters, and if you're able to identify with Elizabeth Bennet and Mr. Darcy, but not with Seren Pedac and Trull Sengar because one of them is a bit grey-tinted, then it's impossible to understand fantasy.

The same thing with Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five. IMO one of the greatest books ever written, but because it involves time travel and aliens as a means to tell a story it's rejected as unrealistic. If you substitute the aliens and time travel with simply jumping back and forth through a storyline a la Memento I'm sure they'd love the book.

So it goes.

This post has been edited by Eispeis: 15 March 2010 - 07:46 AM

[Happy Shaman]

We've all seen the eye-rolls, the mocking smiles and heard the patronizing comments from Fantasy Haters out there, but I've never had some hoser on the train, bus or subway snatch my book like that when I'm PTR (Public Transit Reading) Personally, I feel sorry for folk like that. In the end, they just don't know what they are missing.

I agree that if that jackass read MoI, he'd be a fan and would be apologizing to you toot-sweet. BTW, MoI will make you laugh, wet your pants and cry all at once And that's the whole way through it! Now, while I am blessed (Probably by Oponn) to be surrounded by some great fantasy lovers; my girl and best friend are big nerds like me:), I have still dealt with the ignorant masses that just don't get fantasy nor sci-fi. And while I agree, that there were alot of DnD novels out there that were crap (But still hold a special place for me, since they got me into fantasy) I think that for the most part, the stigma comes instead from a lack of experience with the genres.

For example; My sister has always been notorious for her dislike of Sci-Fi and Fantasy. She thinks LotR is stupid and held Star Wars in the same regard, but don't fret fellow nerds, there is hope. When Revenge of the Sith came out, I was shocked, SHOCKED! when my sister asked me if I'd go with her to the theaters to see it. Of course, I was more then happy too. Since then, she has even seen the new Star Trek movie (trust me, Star Trek got the most heat from her) and its one of her favourite movies now. But, that probably has a lot to do with my tastes rubbing off on her, maybe not though.

We are seeing Fantasy and Sci-Fi becoming more of a staple then either genre has ever been in the past. Movies like LotR and Star Trek are loved be fans of both series' and genres and by those who aren't.

But, there will always be ignorant folk out there, who feel an overwhelming need to redirect their feelings of inadequacy towards people that are fans of something that they are not. Is it society? Maybe. But I think this is a case of...douchebag is as douchebag does.

Pity him my friend, because he is missing out on some works that would probably change his life for the better

[Verjigorm]

My guess: The nice lady that happens to be this bully's boss is a smart and well educated woman, who enjoys her fanstasy novels during break.


On a more serious note, I know the "unrealistic" discussion. In my youth, I tried to convince others of how great fantasy is, but I don't do it anymore. It's like with good music. You have to go out, seek and embrace it. It's seldom played on the radio. If they don't wanna look for it, it's fine by me.
Now I just have a system. I always ask, what they like and when they same "something realistic" I always counter with: "Boring, if you want something real, you can go out and live it. But you can't experience the worlds in those books 1on1, so you have to read about them."
This statement silenced a surprising amount of critics and let to actual fair discussions about the subject with some of the more open ones.
For really annoying ones, I always have an old "1 Deutsche Mark" coin (in Germany the currency changed to Euro in 2002) in my pocket to demonstarte that concepts of "value" and "what is real" are always a matter of perception and context.

This post has been edited by Verjigorm: 15 March 2010 - 10:47 PM

[Steamer]

The thug snatched my book again yesterday so I come prepared......I pulled out an ice pack I had in my chilly bin cracked him across the back...he went down....i took my book and sat down

some kid then went up and poured choc milk on the bully....apparently this joker had been taking harry potter books from school kids in the mornings too

when he got up he got off @ the next station.....what a crooner


Thanks for your advice/thoughts...im now 870 pages thru MoIce


can anyone tell me if Tad Williams or David Coe are good authors??


Steamer

[Sinisdar Toste]

im guessing the bully's illiterate! and oh how he would so dearly love to read the magical stories that books contain! to ease his pain the poor dunce must steal and mock what he can never experience! what tragedy!

and by the way, who uses an ice pack? honestly? an ice pack. good job, but thats an odd choice of blunt implement my good man.

[Telorast Mad]

My dad would give me half hour lectures on how "unrealistic" and "demonic" the covers of the books were, and therefore I would become like them and be a witch. lol. Ahem.

I patiently tried to explain to him that things like burning cities and people at war not only summarize human history, but act as metaphors for our struggles and triumphs in life. (if anyone ever heard/read/watched Joseph Campbell, yes I'm talking about modern myths)

The thing people don't seem understand about fiction/fantasy is this. It's not only for exploring what could be, it's reorganizing very real concepts and ideas through metaphors. But that's just one perspective on it! Endless possibilities: brought to you in part by fantasy!

[Steamer]

Sinisdar Toste, on 17 March 2010 - 02:18 AM, said:

im guessing the bully's illiterate! and oh how he would so dearly love to read the magical stories that books contain! to ease his pain the poor dunce must steal and mock what he can never experience! what tragedy!

and by the way, who uses an ice pack? honestly? an ice pack. good job, but thats an odd choice of blunt implement my good man.

What else am I gonna be carrying on the train??? This is the real world not the steamy continent of Genabackis where while men roam and the sorcery groans

Cheers
Steamer

[D'rek]

Sinisdar Toste, on 17 March 2010 - 02:18 AM, said:

and by the way, who uses an ice pack? honestly? an ice pack. good job, but thats an odd choice of blunt implement my good man.

Because the book is Memories of ICE. If the bully had grabbed House of Chains I'm sure Steamer would have smacked him with a chain. Or a scale house...?

Good job Steamer!

[Treg]

Steamer, on 16 March 2010 - 11:25 PM, said:

The thug snatched my book again yesterday so I come prepared......I pulled out an ice pack I had in my chilly bin cracked him across the back...he went down....i took my book and sat down
...

Oh... ice PACK. The first two times I read that, I read it "ice pick"! When there was no "welter of blood" I was confused. Third time reading it was the charm.

I just finished MoI on my recent flight from Frankfurt to Washington, DC. Great book. I learned definitively that if anyone suggests that I get my leg looked at: just do it!

[Telorast Mad]

Lol wow I just now got that ice pack part! Thanks

This post has been edited by pillagenplunder: 27 March 2010 - 09:03 PM

[Ulrik]

Next time, smash him directly with MoI..hardcover could be solid anti-personnel weapon..damn, I got angry just by reading it...




For fantasy hate - Im always amused that its mostly disliked by people who likes to read about genial teen hacker girl, conspiracy of Templars, story bout beautiful life in victorian age... Jesus, fiction as fiction. I laughed at my colleauge, film journalist who said, after seeing me reading MT "I hate such things that has nothing common with reality" and after that he got almost orgasms during The Others...WTF?

This post has been edited by Ulrik: 27 March 2010 - 10:28 PM

[Happy Shaman]

Ulrik, on 27 March 2010 - 10:26 PM, said:

Next time, smash him directly with MoI..hardcover could be solid anti-personnel weapon..damn, I got angry just by reading it...




For fantasy hate - Im always amused that its mostly disliked by people who likes to read about genial teen hacker girl, conspiracy of Templars, story bout beautiful life in victorian age... Jesus, fiction as fiction. I laughed at my colleauge, film journalist who said, after seeing me reading MT "I hate such things that has nothing common with reality" and after that he got almost orgasms during The Others...WTF?

You said it dude! Fanatsy and Sci-Fi always get a bad rap from some folks, I think some people are sold simply on concept. Sure, novels like the Da Vinchi Code have a neat concept, but the characters arn't exactly all that complex. I think a lot of folk can't wrap their heads around a 'Fanatsy Concept", which sucks, because in a book like MOI, the characters are far more real feeling, the demand your sympathy, pull you into a story that is incredible, even with it's 'unbelievable' setting.

I mean, Okay, not everything is ever gonna be everyone's cup-o-tea, that goes without saying, but ignorant douchebags should not be allowed on public transit apparently. This is what drives us all crazy, when we are attack for...well, for being a fan of something we like. I don't like the Twilight series, I'll make fun of IT, not the people that like it (Ok, some have felt my wrath on it, but those were friends and they can take it )

This sorta of thing happens to lots of folk, I think, whenever they come across an ignorant fellow that don't like what you're digging. They be bullies and our friend here, with the ice pack did what we were all taught to do with bullies...STAND UP TO THEM!

[Vesper]

That punk would have been lucky to have walked off the train if he had done that to me. I commend you for your restraint. Noses (or, rather, nose... and mouth... and internal organs) would have been bloodied were I to have been in your position.

Regarding why people hate fantasy... this is honestly the first time I have heard of a case of someone acting in the way that you described. The only other case I might think where literature would be so negatively regarded would be fundamentalist religious book-burning gatherings. People who feel threatened by the expansion of imagination and the notion of 'magic', which is ubiquitous in fantasy. The guy may have also been mentally disturbed (though in my opinion that's often synonymous with the aforementioned point of religious fundamentalism).

Either way, it's not an excuse, and my wrath would have burned him like the hot, hot fires of Mordor. Nobody -- I mean, nobody -- messes with my books.