[borstalboy]

first post, so if these topics have been previously discussed, kindly excuse me n point towards the relevant threads.

1)what exactly was the ereko storyline all about? he was tired of living, so he decided to give the chance to snuff him out to the chap who'd vowed to wipe out his entire race? that's it?

2)what's up with osserc's shapeshifting: sky mage/tusked version/liosan? before this book, i thought that osserc was the liosan equivalent of rake ( ie, first son of father light, ergo first liosan stuff ), but the way he has been portrayed in ROtCG seems to suggest otherwise...

n by the bye, the last we see of kallor, shows him being saved by the CG, yet when we encounter him again in TtH, he seems not so pleased with his patron.

Spoiler

is this becoz of CG's elevation of skinner as the king in chains?

[Obdigore]

1) What do you think it was about? He was told via prophecy that he was alive to do the bidding of the earth-mother or w/e. The earth mother told him to help Dassem then return to her. So he did. He ran into Kallor (who has this thing about vows) and returned to his mother, or something.

2) I thought the same thing. Perhaps there are a lot more Liosan than there are Andii, causing the being they worship to be stronger? Perhaps he accepts that worship in a way Rake never did? Perhaps he killed and absorbed the power of father light? Perhaps the Liosan are into blood sacrifice?

By the Bye) Kallor thought he was going to be the Leader of High House Chains. And now it seems that the position has been offered to Skinner because Kallor wasn't awesome enough. I would imagine that Kallor is never, ever pleased with anyone being 'over' him unless they could take him one on one. Can the CG? We know Rake or Brood could have.

[Sinisdar Toste]

about osserc and rake being each others opposite, they kind of are, but the thing with these beings who are so powerful is that they can take many forms. rake once spent a century as a human guard of some castle. they're just powerful enough to assume other humanoid forms. this is not the same as being soletaken imo. soletaken change their species and to do that you need a ritual or the blood of a powerful member of that species (ie. Tiam)

[borstalboy]

Obdigore, on 10 March 2010 - 03:25 PM, said:

1) What do you think it was about? He was told via prophecy that he was alive to do the bidding of the earth-mother or w/e. The earth mother told him to help Dassem then return to her. So he did. He ran into Kallor (who has this thing about vows) and returned to his mother, or something.

yes... seems that's all there was to it...

Obdigore, on 10 March 2010 - 03:25 PM, said:

2) I thought the same thing. Perhaps there are a lot more Liosan than there are Andii, causing the being they worship to be stronger? Perhaps he accepts that worship in a way Rake never did? Perhaps he killed and absorbed the power of father light? Perhaps the Liosan are into blood sacrifice?

the liosan n osserc relationship seems quite like the bluerose andii n rake thing: absent ascendant being worshipped as god. neither osserc nor rake seem to have accepted godhood... the moon's spawn n avalii andii did not worship rake, not as a god, at least...

osserc seems to have abandoned the liosan (n wasn't there some creature that had usurped his place n l8r got killed by t'lan imass ?) to go n nap under some castle on wu. then there's his role as the "lord of the sky" (mentioned in the book glossaries)... though this would imply his worship as such by the inhabitants of wu, none of the books mention anything like that (except perhaps kyle's tribe)...

none of the tiste races r mentioned as being into blood sacrifices, although heuk's ritual does seem to imply that blood sacrifice can be used to somehow access KG...

Obdigore, on 10 March 2010 - 03:25 PM, said:

By the Bye) Kallor thought he was going to be the Leader of High House Chains. And now it seems that the position has been offered to Skinner because Kallor wasn't awesome enough. I would imagine that Kallor is never, ever pleased with anyone being 'over' him unless they could take him one on one. Can the CG? We know Rake or Brood could have.

yeah...

Sinisdar Toste, on 10 March 2010 - 06:00 PM, said:

about osserc and rake being each others opposite, they kind of are, but the thing with these beings who are so powerful is that they can take many forms. rake once spent a century as a human guard of some castle. they're just powerful enough to assume other humanoid forms. this is not the same as being soletaken imo. soletaken change their species and to do that you need a ritual or the blood of a powerful member of that species (ie. Tiam)

yeah... DoD mentions somethin similar...

Spoiler

"He took many forms, this creature"- from kilmandaros's interaction with osserc in her dream...this para also suggests that killy n osserc had been an item once, but it ended badly, with killy left feeling "betrayed"..

[D'rek]

borstalboy, on 11 March 2010 - 11:06 AM, said:

Obdigore, on 10 March 2010 - 03:25 PM, said:

2) I thought the same thing. Perhaps there are a lot more Liosan than there are Andii, causing the being they worship to be stronger? Perhaps he accepts that worship in a way Rake never did? Perhaps he killed and absorbed the power of father light? Perhaps the Liosan are into blood sacrifice?

the liosan n osserc relationship seems quite like the bluerose andii n rake thing: absent ascendant being worshipped as god. neither osserc nor rake seem to have accepted godhood... the moon's spawn n avalii andii did not worship rake, not as a god, at least...

osserc seems to have abandoned the liosan (n wasn't there some creature that had usurped his place n l8r got killed by t'lan imass ?) to go n nap under some castle on wu. then there's his role as the "lord of the sky" (mentioned in the book glossaries)... though this would imply his worship as such by the inhabitants of wu, none of the books mention anything like that (except perhaps kyle's tribe)...

none of the tiste races r mentioned as being into blood sacrifices, although heuk's ritual does seem to imply that blood sacrifice can be used to somehow access KG...

he's also ref'd as being important to Serc/sky in tBH when Iccy and Mappo find Sorrit dead.

[Hetan]

Quote

none of the tiste races r mentioned as being into blood sacrifices, although heuk's ritual does seem to imply that blood sacrifice can be used to somehow access KG...

I think Anomander Rake's killing of Tiam in order to drink her blood might qualify.

[borstalboy]

D, on 11 March 2010 - 02:27 PM, said:

he's also ref'd as being important to Serc/sky in tBH when Iccy and Mappo find Sorrit dead.

yeah. osserc=lord of the sky n serc=sky warren. hardly coincidence.

Quote

I think Anomander Rake's killing of Tiam in order to drink her blood might qualify.

that's somethin almost all draconic soletaken who've drunk from the source (tiam) seem to have done. so it's neither somethin rake-specific nor tiste-specific...

the tiam thing is again somethin that SE has deliberately written vaguely about...

[Sinisdar Toste]

well, not all the soletaken eleint have killed tiam and drank her blood. the first generation did. rake, silchas, scabandari. but many of the others are descended from tiam and these original soletaken eleint. the elder gods that are listed as soletaken i'm not sure of.

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 12 March 2010 - 05:55 PM

[D'rek]

Sinisdar Toste, on 12 March 2010 - 05:54 PM, said:

well, not all the soletaken eleint have killed tiam and drank her blood. the first generation did. rake, silchas, scabandari. but many of the others are descended from tiam and these original soletaken eleint. the elder gods that are listed as soletaken i'm not sure of.

Osserc and Scabby were her lovers and got their Soletaken-ness from that, somehow (Sukul Ankhadu calls it 'weaving their blood together' or some such).

Rake and Silchas killed T'iam and drank her blood. Korlat, Orfantal and the other 2 TA soletaken from Moon's Spawn were with Rake and drank after him, I think.

It is unknown how Draconus, the Galayn Lord, Tulas Shorn or K'rul (if applicable) got their Soletaken-eleint groove on.

Spite, Menandore, Sukul, Sheltatha and Rud Elalle got theirs genetically.

Spoiler

Olar Ethil got hers from being the child of Tiam or the lover of Tiam or both.

[borstalboy]

D, on 12 March 2010 - 10:40 PM, said:

Osserc and Scabby were her lovers and got their Soletaken-ness from that, somehow (Sukul Ankhadu calls it 'weaving their blood together' or some such).

Rake and Silchas killed T'iam and drank her blood. Korlat, Orfantal and the other 2 TA soletaken from Moon's Spawn were with Rake and drank after him, I think.

It is unknown how Draconus, the Galayn Lord, Tulas Shorn or K'rul (if applicable) got their Soletaken-eleint groove on.

Spite, Menandore, Sukul, Sheltatha and Rud Elalle got theirs genetically.

Spoiler

Olar Ethil got hers from being the child of Tiam or the lover of Tiam or both.

hmmm.... i thought the sex n the slayin went together for the first gen soletaken... iirc rake had done both...

is tiam dead? for good, i mean?

DoD

Spoiler

Tiam's daughter did not outlive her mother - this thing has embraced the Ritual of Tellann - she is less than she once was.'

n is envy definitely not soletaken?

[Sinisdar Toste]

borstalboy, on 13 March 2010 - 11:53 AM, said:

hmmm.... i thought the sex n the slayin went together for the first gen soletaken... iirc rake had done both...

is tiam dead? for good, i mean?

DoD

Spoiler

Tiam's daughter did not outlive her mother - this thing has embraced the Ritual of Tellann - she is less than she once was.'

n is envy definitely not soletaken?

the answer to both questions is we don't know. plenty of speculatin though!