[RallickNomNomNom]

Who is the best high fist in terms of military strategy?

1.] Dassem Ultor
2.] Dujek Onearm
3.] Coltaine

(or any others you feel worth mention.) :]

[Illuyankas]

4.] Urko's left
5.] Urko's right

[Ulrik]

6) Ganoes Paran (man, he killed godess with one healer!)




But no, I think Coltaine. Without High Mages, host of refugees...

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Are only Malazans allowed? ( I know you said Fist, but thought maybe you just meant general/leader) Because if not I'm throwing Brood and Kallor up there.

[D'rek]

Pedantic bear says: AFAWK, Dassem was never a High Fist, nor Coltaine.

Ranking all the High Fists, Fists and First Swords of the Malazan Empire, though, from what we've seen and heard:

Dassem Ultor
Dujek
Choss
Coltaine
Anand
Korbolo Dom
Whiskeyjack
Urko Crust
Aragan
Tavore Paran
Greymane
Kal'il
Tene Baralta
Cartheron Crust
D'Ebbin
Keneb
Rheena
Blistig
Amaron
Darlat
Gamet
Genist D'Irdrel
Arbin
Pormqual

This post has been edited by D'rek: 08 March 2010 - 03:02 AM

[Illuyankas]

I thought that the Crusts were Admirals, not Fists, and also are you sure Korbolo Dom should be so high?

And you missed Paran.

This post has been edited by Illuyankas: 07 March 2010 - 06:43 PM

[D'rek]

Illuyankas, on 07 March 2010 - 06:43 PM, said:

I thought that the Crusts were Admirals, not Fists, and also are you sure Korbolo Dom should be so high?

And you missed Paran.

Screw Paran, that was only a field promotion - I didn't include Storo Matash either.

Cartheron was High Fist of Aren before Pormqual. Urko can definitely lead ground armies whether he was ever a Fist or not, so let's say he was.

And frankly, I think Korbolo gets a lot of unnecessary flak. He was good enough to command the BBs. He didn't beat Coltaine, but there was a few times he came close, and he did kinda already know that his agent was successfully controlling Pormqual, anyways. Then in Raraku we get Mathok and Leoman saying his strategy is shite because Tavore could come at them from somewhere else... but she doesn't. And the troops in the 14th realize it's going to be a shitty assault for them - until his army gets killed by ghosts...

[HoosierDaddy]

"His" agent? I think, in the end, that's rather backwards.

Also, Paran has the Host under his command. You can't write that one off as field promotion.

[Aptorian]

The description we get off Korbolo in DG and HoC is of a very capable and dangerous commander. It's his enourmous ego and ambition that gets in his way, there's nothing wrong with his tactical knowledge and military mind.

If we're allowing First Swords as well, could we put Kelanved up there alongside Dassem Ultor? Dude, was a military genius.

[End of Disc One]

D, on 07 March 2010 - 06:37 PM, said:

Pedantic bear says: AFAWK, Dassem was never a High Fist, nor Coltaine.

Dassem wasn't a High Fist? Wasn't he the Malazan leader of all things military? I guess I'm not really sure how the structure of command works.

[Defiance]

Pormqual.

[Aptorian]

End of Disc One, on 07 March 2010 - 09:22 PM, said:

D, on 07 March 2010 - 06:37 PM, said:

Pedantic bear says: AFAWK, Dassem was never a High Fist, nor Coltaine.

Dassem wasn't a High Fist? Wasn't he the Malazan leader of all things military? I guess I'm not really sure how the structure of command works.

The First Sword is supposed to be the iron fist of the army, the spear head of the assault. When taking the field, Dassem could probably still recieve and give out orders, if that was critically needed, but in essence because he was stuck in the middle of things, he would lose any overall image of the battle and wouldn't be able to make corrections.

When not on the battle field, Dassem was a superb tactician and most importantly, a trait he shared with WJ, he was a soldiers general. The men loved him and he inspired them.

[D'rek]

H.D., on 07 March 2010 - 08:02 PM, said:

"His" agent? I think, in the end, that's rather backwards.

Also, Paran has the Host under his command. You can't write that one off as field promotion.

Sure I can - the Captains and Fists in the Host may call him 'High Fist' but he's really just some commander of an outlaw'd army that isn't part of the ME. But if you really think I should, personally I'd put him below Pormqual.

[Illuyankas]

Wow, where did this dislike of the Ganoes come from?

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Well considering we have never seen Paran command a troop of more than 37 soldiers, I have no problem with him being left off the list. But I am confused at how Dom goes above Whiskeyjack, considering Dom only got the BB's cuz Whiskeyjack was promoted?

[Illuyankas]

I'm not saying he's the new Dujek or anything, but putting him below Pormqual? Really?

[D'rek]

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 08 March 2010 - 12:27 AM, said:

Well considering we have never seen Paran command a troop of more than 37 soldiers, I have no problem with him being left off the list. But I am confused at how Dom goes above Whiskeyjack, considering Dom only got the BB's cuz Whiskeyjack was promoted?

Yeah, yeah, I know, but from what I can recall WJ is a legend for being a great *commander*, but we never really see much of him in terms of tactics. In the GotM prologue he sends Dujek with a wing of soldiers to stop a mage cadre, and then in MoI he lines up a load of troops on a hill to make an impression on the Pannions. There's certainly the possibility that he's a marvelous tactician, too, but we haven't really seen much of it...

Illuyankas, on 08 March 2010 - 12:37 AM, said:

I'm not saying he's the new Dujek or anything, but putting him below Pormqual? Really?

Sure. Pormqual at least knows about properly spacing a rearguard behind the main column...

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

D, on 08 March 2010 - 01:54 AM, said:

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 08 March 2010 - 12:27 AM, said:

Well considering we have never seen Paran command a troop of more than 37 soldiers, I have no problem with him being left off the list. But I am confused at how Dom goes above Whiskeyjack, considering Dom only got the BB's cuz Whiskeyjack was promoted?

Yeah, yeah, I know, but from what I can recall WJ is a legend for being a great *commander*, but we never really see much of him in terms of tactics. In the GotM prologue he sends Dujek with a wing of soldiers to stop a mage cadre, and then in MoI he lines up a load of troops on a hill to make an impression on the Pannions. There's certainly the possibility that he's a marvelous tactician, too, but we haven't really seen much of it...

But we know Whiskeyjack commanded those armies and the BB's with success and built his reputation doing it. It's not just that we haven't seen Paran be an effective and brilliant, its that he hasn't been a commander of an army yet. For all we know in his first major engagement he might perform so badly that his troops try and assassinate him. Now, I don't think that will happen, but the point is we don't know.

[blanketman2.0]

but paran got a bunch of respect by killing polei so hes like Dassem abit and he must as good or better then tavore cause i believe in DH it said he was a better tactician than tavore + saved his high command by using solei - Dujek

One arm the best tho

This post has been edited by blanketman2.0: 09 March 2010 - 02:35 AM

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

blanketman2.0, on 08 March 2010 - 03:25 AM, said:

but paran got a bunch of respect by killing polei so hes like Dassem abit and he must as good or better then tavore cause i believe in DH it said he was a better tactician than tavore

One arm the best tho

1. He didn't kill Poleil, he just threw a shard of otataral at her to keep her in place til the hounds got there.
2. Yes, Dassem got respect for martial prowess, but I'd assume most of it came because he was such a great and inspiring leader of men.
3. What quote are you thinking about? Maybe the part where they would play with figurines and recreate historical battles? I don't recall any discussion on who was better tho