[caladanbrood]

I actually really enjoyed Best Served Cold. It was just fun... and I thought that the fact that all the characters were despicable was most of the point?

[Dr Trouble]

You have a good grasp on the book, which makes me wonder why you are having a problem with it?

I feel that Abercrombies whole thing was making a book full of dislikable characters that everyone hates, yet they'll keep reading (Which I certainly did).
I felt that the whole, "Kill x amount of villians," was done in order for us to see how bitter it made her, and how it brought the emotions of how her brother was not who she had built him up as in her minds. Not to mention the underlying sexual question that was through the whole book. Wonderfully done, in my opinion.

But I agree that the book seemed to drag in points. But It was his first attemt to write a standalone book. So i'll forgive him.

This post has been edited by Trouble: 10 February 2010 - 12:58 PM

[Aooga]

!!!Spoilers Spoilers Galore!!!!

Yeah after reading the First Law series you kind of get the idea about Abercrombie's views on heroes and villains. His are a bit of both. Everyone's a little black hearted on the inside. Sometime he takes things a bit too far like in the First Law but after finishig BSC I realised he's basically setting us up for a massive tie in at some point.

OT: I loved BSC. It was a fast paced and entertaining read. The revenge them is familiar yes but have not ever read it in this particualr setting though. Would expect it to be more of a mafia style story. The fantasy setting makes it all teh more interesting. I didn't particularly warm up to the character of Monza but did appreciate the appreciate the irony that the whole tragedy could have been avoided if she had been a bit of a bitch earlier on in her life instead of later.

The development of Caul Shivers was brilliant. Can't wait to see what he does back in the North

So now that we know there is a bigger war going on I guess in the end everyone will get their due. Can't wait.

This post has been edited by Aooga: 10 February 2010 - 01:07 PM

[rhulad]

I haven't read him but now I'm going to have to so that I know what you are talking about. Anything of his that you would recommend specifically? Or is it all about the same?

[polishgenius]

 Trouble, on 10 February 2010 - 12:58 PM, said:

You have a good grasp on the book, which makes me wonder why you are having a problem with it?

Getting it and liking it are not the same thing though.


Anyway, it was decent, but not as good as the trilogy. Like people said, it got a little repetitive, and not just the plot but Abrecrombie's whole style.

Cosca is a legend though.

[Ulrik]

For me is Abercrombie one of the best fantasy authors of these days. He like to ruin classic stereotypes, his heroes are anti-heroic and more attractive than generic "nice, gentle charming hero". Martin is IMO song of past, because he has to finish next book (and has, damn, right to write it as long as he want to!) and last published piece of SoIF disappointed me. If we put Erikson aside (no need to discuss:)), First law is with Morgan´s Steel Remains and Bakker´s Prince of Nothing only really interesting piece of fantasy I read in years. Yes, I had a good time with Rothfuss, Lake or Campbell, but...

[kcf]

I really enjoyed the First Law trilogy (review). I had a few issues with the individual books, but loved it overall.

BSC was a bit meh (review). I enjoyed it. And I enjoyed some parts of it a lot (like Cosca). And I realize the point was to be bleak and show characters who regress rather than grow, or at least don't progress much at all. But the characters lacked the charm of what we saw in tFL, in some cases were a bit too close a copy to those earlier characters, and the book was way too long - it just got tedious (I really wish there had been 4 rather than 7 people she had to kill - I think that would have been about the right length). Mostly it seemed that Abercrombie tried a bit too hard with this one. And for all the tald about it being a stand-alone, I really think that's a bit of a stretch with how much it relates to tFL and presumably future books to come.

[QuickTidal]

I have to agree with Kityhawk. Quite frankly, while I really enjoyed the First Law Trilogy, I was mostly bored by BSC, and you're right, the whole revenge on a certain number of people that was methodically ticking down like a checklist didn't leave me with any room for excitement or intrigue. I mean the whole thing was a study in "Okay, so here's the whole plan for what I'm going to go do, and now off I go to do it" and that's it really. There's no REAL surprises, nor were there any "holy shit" moments. No one comes off as exceptionally interesting, even if they ARE somewhat villainous main characters. Monza especially, does not really work as a protagonist if you ask me. She's very nearly irredeemable, and that makes her difficult to read about. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of having an anti-hero, and even so much as the protagonist being somewhat of a villain, but they shouldn't be irredeemable. She spends alot of her time trying to do something with an altruistic motive only to descend back into the person she had always been and remind us that she is petty, nasty, and decidedly caustic.

Cosca is the only reason I kept reading.

I think laid out the way it was, the novel kind of has a Bond Villain mentality...It tells you everything it plans to do before it goes off to do it, and thus makes for a "meh" entry into Abercrombie's world.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 10 February 2010 - 10:23 PM

[Dr Trouble]

 polishgenius, on 10 February 2010 - 04:57 PM, said:

 Trouble, on 10 February 2010 - 12:58 PM, said:

You have a good grasp on the book, which makes me wonder why you are having a problem with it?

Getting it and liking it are not the same thing though.

That's why I said Having a problem, and not, "Why didn't you like it?"

I got the feeling from the OP that even though he saw all the threads there, he didn't understand them completely. I could tell that he didn't like the book, thats pretty obvious.

[Werthead]

 rhulad, on 10 February 2010 - 04:57 PM, said:

I haven't read him but now I'm going to have to so that I know what you are talking about. Anything of his that you would recommend specifically? Or is it all about the same?

The logical place to start is The Blade Itself, the first book in The First Law trilogy. There's three books in the trilogy (as you'd expect) and then a self-contained semi-follow-up called Best Served Cold.

[coferblack]

I really enjoyed The First Law Trilogy. When I bought Best Served Cold, I was really looking forward to reading it. I found nothing bad about the book, but I did not really enjoy it either. I thought the book was kind of 'meh.' I think Joe might have made a mistake with making the book a standalone. If he did the revenge on four characters, it would have worked better as other have already said. I think Cosca and the backstory of the mercenary company was one of the most interesting aspects of the story.

I think the revenge plot would have worked better if it was part of a larger story. For example, the beginning part of the story could have shown the relationship of Monza, as a mercenary captain, and Duke of Talins who was starting on his conquest to become supreme ruler. Another part of the story could have focused on the mercenary company from when Cosca was the head honcho and the process or journey to Monza becoming the head honcho.

Another aspect of the story could have focused on the relationship between Monza and Benna and how it evolved from the time they joined the mercenary company to his death.

The above could have been the first part of the story.

The second part of the story could have been Monza seeking revenge.

I think since Joe only told on a revenge story, there is less of chance for the reader have invested interest in these characters. If Joe included in his story about the time these characters spent before the betrayal, I think the revenge plot would have had more of an impact. I think of Joe told a betrayal and revege story, the story would have been more compelling.

If anyone is interested in a revenge fantasy story, I would highly recommend MALEDICTE by Lane Robins. KINGS AND ASSASSINS, the sequel, is good but not as good MALEDICTE.

[QuickTidal]

 coferblack, on 11 February 2010 - 03:31 AM, said:

I really enjoyed The First Law Trilogy. When I bought Best Served Cold, I was really looking forward to reading it. I found nothing bad about the book, but I did not really enjoy it either. I thought the book was kind of 'meh.' I think Joe might have made a mistake with making the book a standalone. If he did the revenge on four characters, it would have worked better as other have already said. I think Cosca and the backstory of the mercenary company was one of the most interesting aspects of the story.

I think the revenge plot would have worked better if it was part of a larger story. For example, the beginning part of the story could have shown the relationship of Monza, as a mercenary captain, and Duke of Talins who was starting on his conquest to become supreme ruler. Another part of the story could have focused on the mercenary company from when Cosca was the head honcho and the process or journey to Monza becoming the head honcho.

Another aspect of the story could have focused on the relationship between Monza and Benna and how it evolved from the time they joined the mercenary company to his death.

The above could have been the first part of the story.

The second part of the story could have been Monza seeking revenge.

I think since Joe only told on a revenge story, there is less of chance for the reader have invested interest in these characters. If Joe included in his story about the time these characters spent before the betrayal, I think the revenge plot would have had more of an impact. I think of Joe told a betrayal and revege story, the story would have been more compelling.

If anyone is interested in a revenge fantasy story, I would highly recommend MALEDICTE by Lane Robins. KINGS AND ASSASSINS, the sequel, is good but not as good MALEDICTE.

A very well thought out reply, and I agree with you, had the story been about those things with the revenge plot as the last quarter of the book, it would have made for much better reading methinks.

[caladanbrood]

Why does everything have to have a direct relevance to the plot? The bit you pointed out was there to demonstrate the degeneracy of that character, I would have thought that was obvious?

[Pig Iron]

Luved it. Standard revenge fare is the righteous one. Abercombie's is bleak from the start, and then gets worse. There are some really great scenes, but what I like most is how he never quite lets you identify with a character and feel comfortable. Black humour is part of it.

[Tarcanus]

Topics like this tend to depress me. I cannot understand the love Abercrombie gets.

I just tried for 10 minutes to adequately express my dislike of Abercrombie's writing, plot, and characters, but wasn't able to keep my thoughts lucid enough to sway any opinions - it's been too long since I read it and tried to forget it. I'll just leave my opinion with: If you like Erikson, I cannot fathom how you like Abercrombie.

[polishgenius]

You can't leave it at that... now you have to explain why exactly liking Erikson and Bakker is incompatible.

[Fist Gamet]

Although Tarcanus has put it a bit stronger than I would, I share the sentiment that I cannot really understand why so many people feel that strongly about his work. In fairness I did not finish the first book, but I would argue that the ease with which I dropped it says something about how dull and lifeless I found it. Perhaps it is true that I gave up just as it was going to get interesting but the writing and the story never hooked me and there was nothing in the first half to suggest to me I should persevere with it.

[RodeoRanch]

I really enjoyed his first trilogy. Looking forward to picking up "Best Served Cold" someday.

And for the record, I fucking hate Bakker's stuff. Really. You couldn't pay me to read any of it again.